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8x19 Taxi Driver

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Rosely View Post
    Good point, and I hated what they did with the Bobby gohst too. But I fear this wasn't the last we've seen of him. They really made it clear that Bobby wasn't done hunting. Which is odd seeing as he has just been in hell for 240 years...

    They left it open after Deaths Door and brought him back pretty fast (with the bear from the table and such), so I suppose him being in heaven doesn't have to be the end. Even though Ellen, Jo and John have not been back from there... so there's hope
    Well I'm hoping that with him finally getting to go to heaven and it being apart of the trials that will be the last we see of him unless perhaps they were to bring him back full time and have a clear direction in mind for him. That I would find alright if done correctly, but having him pop up now and then as in this week case would just serve to cheapen the memory of a much loved character in my opinion

    And oh I know that Death's Door was never in the writers mind the end as the ghost Bobby story-line was planned long before then I'm sure. What I meant though was that for me they should have ended the characters journey at Death's Door as it was in my opinion complete perfection in showing the character of Bobby and his love for Sam and Dean. While the ghost story-line and this weeks appearance have done nothing but in their own ways belittle the character
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
      While the ghost story-line and this weeks appearance have done nothing but in their own ways belittle the character
      The ghost story didn't really belittle the character. I can understand why you would see it that way, but it was still Bobby, he really wanted to help and do good, but he had no feeling for boundaries anymore. When he realized he had crossed them and that he would turn into a vengeful spirit, he chose to have a hunters funeral. So it was still really Bobby and even though the story was kinda lame, I don't think it really damaged the character.

      This weeks story was mostly unrealistic (within the SN universe of course since all story-lines are unrealistic). After spending 2 years in hell, no way he was that sane... Apparently they played the Sam and Dean cards a lot, so it's also not logical that Bobby would believe it's really Sam within a minute. And how one earth did Sam manage to find Bobby that fast? Are there just 50 souls in hell?

      So if you don't think about it, it's all pretty cool, and the special effects were nice. Purgatory is a whole lot of a better place then hell, and it does show on Dean, he's not as damaged from it as he was from hell, but still, this weeks episode has some major plot holes

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Rosely View Post
        The ghost story didn't really belittle the character. I can understand why you would see it that way, but it was still Bobby, he really wanted to help and do good, but he had no feeling for boundaries anymore. When he realized he had crossed them and that he would turn into a vengeful spirit, he chose to have a hunters funeral. So it was still really Bobby and even though the story was kinda lame, I don't think it really damaged the character.
        I never felt that Bobby's ghost storyline damaged the character either. I thought it was a valid option to explore and they did it reasonably well.

        Originally posted by Rosely View Post
        Apparently they played the Sam and Dean cards a lot, so it's also not logical that Bobby would believe it's really Sam within a minute.
        That was ridiculous, especially since it is well established that demons can read minds, so Sam's knowledge of Bobby's secrets proves absolutely nothing. There is a reason why they always go through the whole silver/holy water/borax ritual when one of them comes back from the dead - mere words are just not enough to establish the true identity of someone.

        Originally posted by Rosely View Post
        And how one earth did Sam manage to find Bobby that fast? Are there just 50 souls in hell?
        Because the time restraints of the plot required him to. There is no logical in-canon reason for it.

        Originally posted by Rosely View Post
        Purgatory is a whole lot of a better place then hell, and it does show on Dean, he's not as damaged from it as he was from hell.
        Personally, I feel that Taxi Driver completely undermines the horror of Dean's time in purgatory by showing that Sam and Bobby could just stroll around and have casual conversations while they were walking to the meeting point. Sam (and Bobby) spend hours in purgatory, but they barely encounter any monsters and they are never really in danger. Remember, when Dean arrived in purgatory, he was immediately surrounded by monsters, and the flashbacks tell us that Dean, Benny and Castiel were on the run and fighting non-stop during their stay. The discrepancies between Sam's purgatory and Dean's purgatory are just glaring and really damage the entire purgatory arc.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Rosely View Post
          The ghost story didn't really belittle the character. I can understand why you would see it that way, but it was still Bobby, he really wanted to help and do good, but he had no feeling for boundaries anymore. When he realized he had crossed them and that he would turn into a vengeful spirit, he chose to have a hunters funeral. So it was still really Bobby and even though the story was kinda lame, I don't think it really damaged the character.
          Originally posted by galathea View Post
          I never felt that Bobby's ghost storyline damaged the character either. I thought it was a valid option to explore and they did it reasonably well.
          I personally had issues with the ghost Bobby story-line and indeed his behaviour in this weeks episode due to the fact that firstly as a hunter Bobby ought to know better than anyone how remaining behind as a spirit turns out! He has encountered enough spirits over the years after all and was even warned by the reaper in Death's Door. Then I disliked this weeks episode because even though in Survival of the Fittest he was shown to have learnt his lesson urging the boys to just move on when their time came this week he's all about returning to earth to hunt! That just undermines the one thing the character could have learnt from the ghost story-line!

          Of course were all free to disagree but for me Bobby's story was best ending at Death's Door

          Personally, I feel that Taxi Driver completely undermines the horror of Dean's time in purgatory by showing that Sam and Bobby could just stroll around and have casual conversations while they were walking to the meeting point. Sam (and Bobby) spend hours in purgatory, but they barely encounter any monsters and they are never really in danger. Remember, when Dean arrived in purgatory, he was immediately surrounded by monsters, and the flashbacks tell us that Dean, Benny and Castiel were on the run and fighting non-stop during their stay. The discrepancies between Sam's purgatory and Dean's purgatory are just glaring and really damage the entire purgatory arc.
          I think the one thing though that could be used to argue the discrepancies between Sam's experience of purgatory and Dean and Benny's is the presence of Castiel. What I mean is we know from the words of Castiel in What's Up Tiger Mummy his presence as an angel in a land of abominations was like a bright beacon for the supernatural creatures of purgatory which was why he left Dean when they arrived to try and spare him the worst of it

          I have also seen users speculate that maybe the reason that Sam as a human didn't attract them was due to the molecular changes that Castiel mentioned the trials have caused within Sam during Goodbye Stranger.
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          • #20
            Originally posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
            Then I disliked this weeks episode because even though in Survival of the Fittest he was shown to have learnt his lesson urging the boys to just move on when their time came this week he's all about returning to earth to hunt! That just undermines the one thing the character could have learnt from the ghost story-line!
            On this I whole-heartedly agree. Bobby's wish to be resurrected feels totally out of character to me and completely undermined the resolution to his ghost-arc in S7.

            Originally posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
            I think the one thing though that could be used to argue the discrepancies between Sam's experience of purgatory and Dean and Benny's is the presence of Castiel. What I mean is we know from the words of Castiel in What's Up Tiger Mummy his presence as an angel in a land of abominations was like a bright beacon for the supernatural creatures of purgatory which was why he left Dean when they arrived to try and spare him the worst of it

            I have also seen users speculate that maybe the reason that Sam as a human didn't attract them was due to the molecular changes that Castiel mentioned the trials have caused within Sam during Goodbye Stranger.
            Well, the problem is, when they reunite, Dean tells Castiel that he and Benny were hunted by monsters non-stop, just like Castiel. And only then Castiel further explains that leviathans, specifically, are after him because he has a price on his head. So, even if we buy that Castiel's presence complicated things by attracting leviathans - which I don't, by the way, because Dean should be hunted by leviathans just as much as Castiel; after all, he killed their leader and stopped the leviathan plague on earth - normal monsters still posed a considerable problem for Dean and Benny.

            We can speculate a lot, but the episode really needed to give us an in-canon reason.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by galathea View Post
              Well, the problem is, when they reunite, Dean tells Castiel that he and Benny were hunted by monsters non-stop, just like Castiel. And only then Castiel further explains that leviathans, specifically, are after him because he has a price on his head. So, even if we buy that Castiel's presence complicated things by attracting leviathans - which I don't, by the way, because Dean should be hunted by leviathans just as much as Castiel; after all, he killed their leader and stopped the leviathan plague on earth - normal monsters still posed a considerable problem for Dean and Benny.

              We can speculate a lot, but the episode really needed to give us an in-canon reason.
              Hmm see I didn't interpret the Leviathan thing as Castiel or the writers trying to say that Castiel was considered the more important target. Rather the way I took it was that due to the fact that Castiel is an angel his grace would have really stood out and attracted those around him for miles making it rather easy for Levithians to hunt down and attack Cas. Whereas with Dean they would have been required to actually actively search through purgatory for him and considering the size of purgatory that could have taken some time! So Castiel used the advantage (or disadvantage) he had in being easily found to try his best to keep the Levithians distracted from Dean while trusting in Dean's capabilities to handle the more normal monsters

              Still I agree they could have shown more monsters than they did but since the writers screwed up in properly explaining I like the idea of it being due to a lack of Cas and the molecular changes in Sam that caused a lack of monsters
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