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Torchwood 4 'Miracle Day'

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  • Koos
    replied
    I saw the final. I thought the run was pretty solid. The ending was a bit predictable, but not too much.

    Spoiler:
    I found the idea of the world governments now having the ultimate power of life and death over their populations to be particularly interesting.
    I agree Sueworld. But this continuation of a radically changed world bring me to the biggest problem I have with this run: where's The Doctor? For months the world has drastically changed because of something alien. Something the Doctor should show up for. where was he?

    Leave a comment:


  • sueworld
    replied
    Well I've watched it now...(spoilers)
    Spoiler:


    And when I realised what they'd done to Rex, my reaction was pretty much that of Spike's from the episode 'Lie to me'

    "I've known you for two minutes and I can't stand you. I don't really feature you living forever." *sigh* God why Russell, and why Rex for christ sake? The poor sod needs a personality transplant.

    Thing is though I now get why they've been featuring him so heavily during this run, and that because they were always trying to set up the idea of an American based TW with him as the main lead. Sort of the kind of thing Whedon was guilty of doing in season 7 of Buffy, where he spent too long playing around with characters to see what would make a good team for any subsequent spinoff, instead of actually concentrating in ironing out all the plot problems within the actually story.

    Imo RTD is guilty of the very same thing here, only with bloody great knobs on. Such as shame because I was hoping to like this series, If not love it as much as Children of Earth.

    The thing is there were so many good underused ideas that he brought up in MD, (I found the idea of the world governments now having the ultimate power of life and death over their populations to be particularly interesting) only to be tossed aside in favor of adding even more plot points/characters, who in the grand scheme of things played no real part and we could have well done without. I mean remember the 'Souless', and apart from sacrificing himself at the last minute why exactly did we spend so much time following Oswald Danes when in the end It turns out that most of his progress was pretty pointless.

    Hell as many people have said the whole story could have been told in 5 episodes, not 10 where most of it felt like filler nearly all of the time.

    Performances by most of the main cast were good (Eve Myles in particular) but I have to say I found the poor sod who played Rex and Ester to be terribly bland and just didn't interest me in the least, so when Ester finally copped It I'm afraid I just didn't care. And I hated the fact we saw so little of Jack. Why Russell, don't you get that some people may actually watch this show to see him?


    I strongly doubt that we will see any kind of follow up to this series, and maybe after this poor showing that will be a 'blessing'.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rosamunde
    replied
    Originally posted by densoid View Post
    Episode 7 is basically a relaunch - it makes most of 1-6...pointless frankly.
    It is a good episode though and very Torchwood.

    Episode 6 overall was a very very weak one - it was just pointless.
    Agreed: Episode 7 was a great episode. Definitely my favourite of the series so far.

    I'm not sure what you mean by a "relaunch" though? I didn't feel like we got any new information here, and the Miracle Day stuff we've learnt up to this point still seems pretty important to the plot. I definitely think the series thus far has been way too slow, but there was definitely some useful stuff in there.

    Spoiler:
    I really like episode 7 though! I thought the writing was really great. The script was really dynamic and interesting for a change. I'm absolutely loving the Jack/Italian guy plot line as well. It was sweet, nicely built up, I really felt like the characters had a connection. I really enjoyed the part where Jack decides to let him out of prison. It was very cute.

    I'm very curious about where they're going with this.

    Jack and Gwen's conversation in the car worked really well too. They showed how much they cared about each other in quite a subtle way, and subtle is not a word I usually associate with Torchwood... so, well done!

    Leave a comment:


  • densoid
    replied
    Originally posted by Rosamunde View Post
    Just watched Episode Six: does anyone else feel like this is moving incredibly slowly? I don't feel like we've advanced at all from the previous epiosde's big reveal about the purpose of the modules. This episode basically felt like it comprised of some brisk walking. Generally, I'm not OK with series that move slowly, but I'll definitely keep watching if the script is good. Unforunately for this episode, I don't really feel like anything is sustaining the slowness and the incredibly plodding script. I really need Jack to go and have some more casual sex with someone good looking. Or Gwen to start being competent for once.

    There have been things I've been enjoying about the series. I really think that the mini-series approach works better for Torchwood. Fandom seems to be really divided about this: it seems like half of the people loved the Monster of the Week format and hated Children of Earth, and for the other half it's the reverse. I'm definitely in the pro-mini-series camp. The arc of Children of Earth worked so well: I'm starting to feel like they just gave Miracle Day too many episodes. On the other hand, the plot arc and the feeling like there's actually some kind of point behind the series that will eventually be worked out is definitely positive and it worlds away from let's-just-throw-a-bunch-of-stuff-together like Torchwood Series 1.

    Lauren Ambrose is great in this and I'm really loving her character. She brightens up every episode. I really hope she keeps popping up. Oswald is suitably creepy too. Although I'm a little confused by Jilly's (or Jillian's, potentially) motivations with Oswald. At first she seemed desperate to get him on board, then suddenly she can't stand him, and she's treating him with disdain? I understand that it's her job to represent him and that doesn't mean she has to like him, but I feel like there was no build-up to her sudden hatred of him. She just seemed so blase about the whole thing before she hated him. Also, the Colm Maloney guy. Why is he so evil? What motivates him to be unhinged enough to go around shooting people? I'm confused by him. Surely he could still get his job done, be a really awful character, and be at least 50% less evil. Maybe?

    Esther's cute. I feel like her character is about the most solid we have at the moment. I like that she's good with computers and not good at dealing with the situation she's in. It makes sense. I thought her fight with the Colm guy was very realistic too. People don't stick their fingers in people's eyes in telly fights often enough, I find.
    Episode 7 is basically a relaunch - it makes most of 1-6...pointless frankly.
    It is a good episode though and very Torchwood.

    Episode 6 overall was a very very weak one - it was just pointless.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rosamunde
    replied
    Just watched Episode Six: does anyone else feel like this is moving incredibly slowly? I don't feel like we've advanced at all from the previous epiosde's big reveal about the purpose of the modules. This episode basically felt like it comprised of some brisk walking. Generally, I'm not OK with series that move slowly, but I'll definitely keep watching if the script is good. Unforunately for this episode, I don't really feel like anything is sustaining the slowness and the incredibly plodding script. I really need Jack to go and have some more casual sex with someone good looking. Or Gwen to start being competent for once.

    There have been things I've been enjoying about the series. I really think that the mini-series approach works better for Torchwood. Fandom seems to be really divided about this: it seems like half of the people loved the Monster of the Week format and hated Children of Earth, and for the other half it's the reverse. I'm definitely in the pro-mini-series camp. The arc of Children of Earth worked so well: I'm starting to feel like they just gave Miracle Day too many episodes. On the other hand, the plot arc and the feeling like there's actually some kind of point behind the series that will eventually be worked out is definitely positive and it worlds away from let's-just-throw-a-bunch-of-stuff-together like Torchwood Series 1.

    Lauren Ambrose is great in this and I'm really loving her character. She brightens up every episode. I really hope she keeps popping up. Oswald is suitably creepy too. Although I'm a little confused by Jilly's (or Jillian's, potentially) motivations with Oswald. At first she seemed desperate to get him on board, then suddenly she can't stand him, and she's treating him with disdain? I understand that it's her job to represent him and that doesn't mean she has to like him, but I feel like there was no build-up to her sudden hatred of him. She just seemed so blase about the whole thing before she hated him. Also, the Colm Maloney guy. Why is he so evil? What motivates him to be unhinged enough to go around shooting people? I'm confused by him. Surely he could still get his job done, be a really awful character, and be at least 50% less evil. Maybe?

    Esther's cute. I feel like her character is about the most solid we have at the moment. I like that she's good with computers and not good at dealing with the situation she's in. It makes sense. I thought her fight with the Colm guy was very realistic too. People don't stick their fingers in people's eyes in telly fights often enough, I find.

    Leave a comment:


  • sueworld
    replied
    Well I've just seen epsiode 7 and loved it. ..

    Spoiler:
    Bugger me, now why couldn't all the episodes have been as good as this one, eh? I mean dear lord I think the this one episode was been better written and paced then the entire season so far. Probably a case of too little too late though sadly. *sigh*

    I particularly loved the conversation between Gwen and Jack in car, I all rang so true to characters, and dear god can't Jack still be a right crafty bugger too.

    And don't get me started on that torture scene. Oh and a nice shot out the the Doctor too.



    Well done Jane Espenson.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wolfie Gilmore
    replied
    I'm not sure if you guys are commenting on the latest ep, which I haven't seen, so just scanning your posts with one eye closed! Though, I did read an article in teh Guardian saying that a psychological study has shown that spoilers actually increase enjoyment - something I have experienced in the past. But since I'm watching this series of Torchwood unspoiled, I thought I'd try and be consistent.

    Anyway, re the Great Leap Forward, I'm pretty sure it must have been on purpose - surely someone on the writing team did at least GCSE history! Given that Oswald is as sinister as anything, it makes sense that he'd be working with the language of death and domination. As Sherrilna said, the whole situation (and Oswald) is messed up.

    I've had a mixed bunch of reactions to this series. There's some very funny writing, plus a bit of lazy writing (all those US/UK language misunderstandings/jokes were lame). I love the way they're upping the ante with the reclassification and the nazi-style ovens.

    I do feel still, as I have from the start, that this feels like a crossover between Torchwood and some non-existent FBI procedural. There's something about it that doesn't quite gel.

    Leave a comment:


  • sherrilina
    replied
    Wow, sh*t got real in the last few epps, didn't it? I'm really sorry to lose Vera, I liked her a lot, but it certainly was a big shock, and a new horrifying revelation in the cremation ovens thing (between this and the 456's plan with children in COE nobody disturbs you like RTD on TV!). I for one have been quite enjoying this season--yes, Rex can be annoying, and it'd be nice to see a bit more sci-fi in it, and it's not as fast-paced as COE (but it can't be with 10 epps....at least it's much more fast-paced than the first 2 series!), but overall I think they've been doing a fine job and that the transition to the US has not ruined the show by any means. I wasn't as much a fan of 4x04, but then in the last two epps it's really picked up again.

    Love Esther in the fight scene too, it made her grow on me more than ever, though man they were dumb for using their own names! And how sad about Gwen's dad, I was not expecting that twist, but it is realistic...

    Originally posted by NileQT87 View Post
    Also, "the Great Leap Forward" isn't something I so much as associate with going from ape to man, but Mao Tse-Tung killing 70 million people. Was using that loaded term just an oversight by the writer or intentional? I'm not sure there would be at least some people that that would raise red flags for.
    Yes that is the most famous usage, although it was Mao's economic campaign to advance the industrialization of the country and agricultural collectivization, which resulted in many deaths because of famine (and to a much lesser extent, political violence). I can see someone like Oswald using the term unwittingly though (like he's heard it but doesn't remember the context but thinks it sounds good), or it could be intentional to show how messed up the whole situation is (I mean you'd think him being a pedophile would raise more red flags too, but that's the point), who knows...

    Leave a comment:


  • densoid
    replied
    Originally posted by sueworld View Post
    Some interesting stuff in this one by the looks of it, and It couldn't come a day too soon imo. Oh Harkness, why do you manage to f*ck things up around you wherever you go?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_Y9S...layer_embedded

    If ever there was a case for speeding things up it would be this season. I think that on the evidence so far they could have done this whole story in 5 episodes, rather then 10 and you don't often see me saying something like that either.
    Unfortunatly next week looks like a fifty minute data dump!

    I mean this recent episode was just...terrible - nothing happened and Jack's story made no time sense (oh so Oswald is done and hes already fully investigated a businessman in the same time it took Rex to sit the **** down?!)

    Also Rex could have just put on a nurses uniform - would make ALOT more sense.

    Overall nothing happened -- except we got a new word 'the blessing' (eg. 'the miracle )

    Oh and why does Gwen need to catch Jack, can they not manage that?


    This series overall...has had pretty much NO consistency or real depth. Its just been pretty rubbish frankly.

    Leave a comment:


  • sueworld
    replied
    Some interesting stuff in this one by the looks of it, and It couldn't come a day too soon imo. Oh Harkness, why do you manage to f*ck things up around you wherever you go?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_Y9S...layer_embedded

    If ever there was a case for speeding things up it would be this season. I think that on the evidence so far they could have done this whole story in 5 episodes, rather then 10 and you don't often see me saying something like that either.

    Leave a comment:


  • NileQT87
    replied
    I've actually put off the last two episodes for 2 1/2 weeks now, so I guess I'll watch them now. Well, that sort of says it all concerning how well the series is keeping me invested.

    The lack of anything at all for Jack to do has definitely been a disappointment, though the plot has its interesting bits. The fact that they made Jack mortal and... they've done absolutely nothing to explore it... has been the biggest problem with it so far. He's just... there.

    In other Whovian news, I finished off The Awakening and Frontios last night/this morning, which means I'm done with Davison. Recons and McCoy, ahoy!

    What I have left to watch:
    Spoiler:
    William Hartnell:
    Marco Polo
    The Sensorites
    The Reign of Terror
    The Crusade
    Galaxy 4
    Mission to the Unknown
    The Myth-Makers
    The Daleks' Master Plan
    The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve
    The Celestial Toymaker (1-3)
    The Savages
    The Smugglers
    The Tenth Planet

    Patrick Troughton:
    The Power of the Daleks
    The Moonbase (1, 3)
    The Faceless Ones (2, 4-6)
    The Abominable Snowmen (1, 3-6)
    The Web of Fear (2-6)
    Fury from the Deep
    The Wheel in Space (1-3, 5)
    The Space Pirates (1, 3-6)

    Jon Pertwee:
    Colony in Space (2-6)

    Tom Baker:
    Shada

    Sylvester McCoy:
    Time and the Rani
    Paradise Towers
    Delta and the Bannermen
    Dragonfire
    Remembrance of the Daleks
    The Happiness Patrol
    Silver Nemesis
    The Greatest Show in the Galaxy
    Ghost Light
    The Curse of Fenric
    Survival

    David Tennant:
    The Infinite Quest

    K-9:
    Jaws of Orthus
    Dream-Eaters
    Curse of Anubis
    Oroborus
    Alien Avatar
    Aeolian
    The Last Oak Tree
    Black Hunger
    The Cambridge Spy
    The Lost Library of Ukko
    Mutant Copper
    The Custodians
    Taphony and the Time Loop
    Robot Gladiators
    Mind Snap
    Angel of the North
    The Last Precinct
    Hound of the Korven
    Eclipse of the Korven

    Big Finish & New Series Adventures:
    I've listened to every Frazer Hines Companion Chronicle/Lost Story (The Forbidden Time, The Emperor of Eternity, Prison in Space, The Glorious Revolution, Helicon Prime, City of Spires, Night's Black Agents, The Wreck of the Titan & Legend of the Cybermen), The Prisoner of Peladon w/ David Troughton, The Three Companions w/ Nicholas Courtney (the last time he ever played the Brig) and Anneke Wills, The Stone Rose w/ David Tennant and The Runaway Train w/ Matt Smith.


    *EDIT*

    And I just watched those last two episodes.
    Spoiler:
    Well, the concentration camp imagery was perhaps a bit on the heavy side.
    Jack sort of got a bit more than usual to do, but he's not really the lead anymore (Rex seems to be the one that they're putting front and center). I'd like to see Jack do something other than stalk Oswald, bugging him about morality, and standing around, cracking a few dull token gay jokes here and there to irritate Rex (is it just me or does Barrowman look tired?--perhaps it's just that he's noticeably aging and looking a bit more gaunt than usual). Gwen is probably the most likable character of the lot. The story is starting to pick up a bit, so that's good. The show borders on preachy/heavy-handed at the moment.

    I'm kind of missing that supernatural/sci-fi element other than the Miracle, itself. The storyline is more interested in being a political thriller. Hopefully, the cause of the Miracle will bring in something a bit more unearthly. The show seems to be trying to be aiming for the non-fantasy geek Starz audience and is keeping those elements to a minimum outside of the initial plot device. Even Jack's sci-fi character background is reduced to a minimum (which is why it's a shame they aren't really exploring what it means for him to be mortal). Phicorp is also a bit intangible and faceless at the moment.

    Also, "the Great Leap Forward" isn't something I so much as associate with going from ape to man, but Mao Tse-Tung killing 70 million people. Was using that loaded term just an oversight by the writer or intentional? I'm not sure there wouldn't be at least some people that that would raise red flags for.
    Last edited by NileQT87; 16-08-11, 01:44 AM.

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  • sueworld
    replied
    Not sure about this episode really. I thought It was good, but I felt the direction of the story was all over the place, and the Doctors death to be a tad predictable, knowing RTD's (like Whedons) past history for killing off characters. Pity they didn't off Ester instead imo.

    Also I found It felt a lot more 'TW' when Gwen was back in Wales, rather then then in the states, and for gods sake Russell, give Jack something more to do! It's his bloody show for christ sake.

    All in all, It was good, but could be a hell of a lot better imo.

    Leave a comment:


  • sherrilina
    replied
    Heh, I actually wasn't as fond of this week's epp as the last few ones, IDK Esther and Rex's storylines didn't do as much for me, and god how dumb were Esther and Rhys respectively, going to a house that will obviously be watched and suddenly trusting the government and "overflow camps" for Gwen's dad after all the paranoia at the beginning of the season.... And I'm a little confused about Jilly's character now, the way she was suddenly so different this week (no longer sinister and in control at all), and how she's only NOW acting wary of Oswald and his hands...maybe because she heard his confession to Jack?

    Loved the "John Smith" ref (lol oh Jack, you still try) though, and also Rex at one point says to Vera, "You're the Doctor"! . And the scene with Gwen's fake American accent was priceless... I also enjoyed the heels comment, as someone noted though she looked like she was dressed to audition for Mad Men in that scene, lol...

    The preview for next week looks epic though, with some COE epp 5-stye Gwen narrations...I think it is really going to pick up now!

    Leave a comment:


  • sueworld
    replied
    Well I've downloaded it and seen it now and I have to say that I think things are finally starting to kick off for me now. Thought this was the best episode so far although I still think that there's a wee bit too much padding in certain aspects of the plot, but on the whole I loved it. Still wish Jack was more central to the whole things though.

    And yay for Gwen's comments on high heeled shoes!!

    Looking forward to watching the UK version with one eye on Twitter where Jane Espenson takes you through her writing decisions as the episode plays 'live' so to speak every week. very interesting stuff.

    Can't wait for the next episode.

    Leave a comment:


  • sherrilina
    replied
    I'm really pleased with the season so far, it does remind me of COE in style (even if it's not as tight and good as that so far, though not too bad or as bad as much of s1-2 either), and I'm finding the situation and set-up to be quite interesting and exciting....(do we really have to spoilertag this if this is a thread to discuss the show?)

    Spoiler:
    Gwen is awesome so far, I loved her confrontation with Sierra Dichen's character on the plane (I also didn't realize that actress would be in this, a nice surprise!), and her baby is the most adorable thing ever (especially when it's wearing protective earmuffs! ). Jack is well...Jack, lol. And I think the new characters are promising enough, I like Esther especially. Jilly is creepy/sinister, can't wait to see more of her game. And once again RTD has come up with an intriguing situation bringing out the darkest and worst side of humanity and realistically showing the effects (like the reactions to Oswald).

    I'm also satisfied that they haven't completely forgotten about everything that came before so far, they've mentioned Ianto, he used Owen's name, you especially got to see the traumatic after-effects of COE for Gwen and Rhys in the beginning in Wales (I hadn't even thought about them, glad RTD did), etc. I think that Jack being so sure that Oswald was lying about feeling forgiven for killing a child was supposed to be a reflection of his continuing guilt about what he did to his grandson in COE. They even had a nod to the parent universe with the "bigger on the inside" reference (not to mention all the "LOL Wales" stuff that always permeated both). In short, so far I don't think the American shift has ruined the show by any means, and I have to admit I'm enjoying seeing Torchwood characters playing around in my hometown!

    As far as old-school Torchwood, they even had those gratuitous sex scenes, lol (though given it's Starz it's to be expected, and frankly it's miraculous there weren't any sooner!). I thought the Jack call to Gwen with her just hanging up on him to talk with Rhys was classic and hilarious.


    Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
    Am closing my eyes - well, squinting down - in case there are any spoilers in the posts above. Can't wait! Loved the last miniseries (apart from maybe some bits towards the end) so really looking forward to it. Bit sad about Ianto still. If it was Ianto and Jack instead of Gwen and Jack, I think I'd prefer that. I don't think Gwen gets very well written - they try too hard to make the the heart of the show (a la Cordy on Angel).
    But she kind of is the heart of the show? I mean the first episode of Torchwood was about her discovering and joining TW, all from her perspective. She's supposed to be a major player, has been from the beginning. Love her or hate her, but that was the creative intent of the show from the get-go, so it wouldn't really make sense to just kill her off.
    Last edited by sherrilina; 26-07-11, 11:02 PM.

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