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Torchwood 4 'Miracle Day'

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  • #46
    Oh I dunno, in later seasons I rather got to like her, and in what I've seen so far in this the character comes across very well, although I agree the writers did manage to make her a wee bit too 'beloved' in some episodes.

    Also It does help that Eve is such a sweetie in real life.

    *ETA* Here's a trailer for episode 2
    Last edited by sueworld; 09-07-11, 03:54 PM.


    • #47
      Right well I was disappointed.

      I think the series will be good but how they introduced a lot of main things was poorly done.

      The 'miracle' is just rushed and badly done, I was confused at how RTD did it - it became a sort of "Oh yeah we don't die now. Oh well." and nothing very big outside the TV.

      Once they got Gwen and Andy discussing it things worked much better, which I suppose is far from a good sign :/
      I think Andy will remain a strong part of the show so thats a positive.

      Overall the new cast seems good - Rex is maybe a bit :/ but I think were suppose to see him like that atm

      Btw the effects on the chopper were horrible when it was a wreck
      The direction at times was great and at others not so good (overall the effects team were poor)

      Just because people will no doubt compare this to Who, I did feel it was a bit like End of Time Part 1 - it confused me and RTD kind of whipped over things, before then (hopefully) going into the big stuff with part 2 (and being a lot better) So I hope thats the case here.

      This was so much weaker than anything in CoE.
      All in all I feel RTD didn't hit the nail between 'new fans' and 'old fans', I think for example Jack's immortality was very poorly shown (they should have had Esther find a video or something of him coming back to life - as it stands it was just 'said')

      Going back to the Who comparison, Moff is much better at these 'visual' representations - very good in fact. And at times I felt he'd have better done the miracle introduction (RTD sort of tried that with all the different characters, but only succeeds with Oswald when the reporter states 'He said 'she should have run faster' - other than that their introductions were weak but the actors pull it off)
      I just feel the Miracle itself is just not...represented on screen...we get all these different scenes but the characters feel fake. Not afraid, except on TV, and no ones going 'god' or anything. I just feel everyones a bit 'well these things happen' about it :/

      I think this is coming but still - a lot here felt like RTD at his weakest...well...ever.

      Oh and the music was...umm...I didn't get fact it made the pacing stranger than it was...

      I think the series will improve mind - final scenes were alright - so 5/10. But I think my main problems are in the 'introductions' so that should get better.


      • #48
        A longer 'this season' style trailer for the rest of TW Miracle Day...


        • #49
          And I just watched the first episode of Torchwood: Miracle Day. I'm intrigued! Probably the most interesting thing is...

          While everyone else can't die, suddenly the man who shouldn't be able to die is the one who can! This should add an interesting dynamic now that Jack is mortal, which will keep him from being the danger piƱata.

          It's very much in the stylistic vein of Children of Earth (fast-paced thriller miniseries format), so that's a good sign. Notably lacking much in the way of aliens so far, outside of mentioning what the British Torchwood was all about. Liked the Recon pills making a comeback and the "touch wood" fan nickname for the series. Jack's immortality was kind of only mentioned rather than seen (though I suppose anyone who has seen him on DW or previous seasons of TW have seen him die about a hundred times--though how he became like that and why there are pictures of him dating back to WWII--nice promo shot from The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances--is left a bit unexplained to new viewers coming in, which might be confusing for them). I'm not sure it works for new viewers who have only found the show on Starz.

          Apparently, there will be some references to DW and even SJA's yet-to-be-aired episodes coming up (I'm really interested in what it will be for the latter). I love fan-service.

          Lovely to see Jack, Gwen and Rhys back (the only other TW character I liked was Owen, so I'm glad to be rid of some of the dead weight). John Barrowman is starting to age a bit. And I wonder how Jack got from the Zaggit Zagoo bar on the planet Zog in The End of Time, pt. 2 to suddenly back on Earth. I guess he had his vortex manipulator working long enough for a return trip to Earth. Though he'd be able to pop around to anywhere/anywhen in the universe if that was the case (RTD pretty much needs it disabled except when the Doctor is around), so it's probably broken down again. And just checking--he doesn't seem to be wearing it in Miracle Day. Maybe this was the stolen Time Agent's vortex manipulator sold to River Song in The Pandorica Opens? Hmm.

          I think TW works better when the adult content is mostly of a horror nature (not so much violence, but just really grim horror like living dead corpses and child death). I really hope Starz didn't force too much of the sexual shock-value crap (nothing at all to do with homosexuality). There were unnecessary shots on both sides of the aisle and several series 1 stories are painful because of it (a lot of it just seems like they're trying too hard to be adult--looking at you, Day One--and it just becomes immature). Others are just boring for other reasons (my eyes just glazed over during Countrycide--I don't remember a thing about it--I'd rather watch The Web Planet, Underworld and The Twin Dilemma back-to-back and that's saying something!--not a good sign when bored actors in giant bumblebee/ant costumes through a Vaseline-smeared lens for 6 episodes is more interesting). At least avoid short-term characters having shenanigans, as, at least, the series regulars have done enough other things so that it doesn't feel like vapid filler. That brought down series 1 (notably the worst series of the show outside of Suzie's arc and a bit of the time travel stuff towards the end) and got tamed down for series 2, when they realized they could tell better stories without it (and it was almost non-existent in CoE). I honestly think TW found its groove when it became a grim thriller.

          As far as new characters go, Esther is the only one who remotely interests me so far. Her search for the files was one of the better parts of the episode.

          Rather disappointed with Bill Pullman's performance. A bit phoned-in, which is a shame, because he was one of the most exciting casting coups.
          Last edited by NileQT87; 10-07-11, 10:07 PM.

          "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
          "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."


          • #50
            Well I've watched episode 2 now...

            And on the whole I liked it. I found it dragged for me in places and some of the performances still aren't doing it for me as much as they should. Weirdly enough I'm still not terribly keen on Pullmans performance for some reason that I just can't put my finger on, but the whole thing was worth it when Gwen sprang into action and as the americans would say 'kicked ass' on the plane. *g* In fact I feel the whole thing will improve If both her and jack are given more screen time, but hopefully thats to come.

            Loving the Jilly Kitzinger character though, who I suspect is certainly not all she appears to be and seems to act like a weird combo of Eve and Lilah from AtS's Wolfram and Hart.

            Looking forward to episode 3.


            • #51
              Yeah, I'm with you on Pullman. He's been very disappointing (and I wanted to like him because I've enjoyed his work in the past--I've adored Casper since I saw it in the theater as a child and Spaceballs is a Mel Brooks classic). It's a bit of a paycheck performance. He's coming off more irritating/boring than creepy, which is a problem.

              Watching episode 2 as we speak. Dichen Lachman! I must have missed the memo that she was in it. No, wait, I think I do remember something said on Whedonesque about it ages ago...

              Ah! There's the vortex manipulator! Well, it beeps about low sodium, as far as functionality goes.

              Interesting bit about how Jack doesn't have any proper immunities and is about to be in a world of disease incubators. It calls back to futuristic Steven Taylor (who has always reminded me of a proto-Jack) and the colony in The Ark that all got infected with Dodo Chaplet's cold. Of course, Jack was poisoned with arsenic, but the plot seems like it might go in that direction.

              Dichen has Death Becomes Her head. Kind of hilarious.

              Vera and Jilly seemed to get some of the better material in this episode.

              Jack and Gwen are definitely still the highlights.
              Last edited by NileQT87; 17-07-11, 03:16 AM.

              "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
              "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."


              • #52
                I enjoyed Miracle Day and I agree with Nile - the miniseries Children-of-Earth approach is really working for Torchwood.

                I did feel that the episode didn't entirely hang together, as the US/UK cast seem as though they're from two slightly different shows. It felt like a crossover really - which, if I just think of it like that, is a fun dynamic. But I now want it all tied together more. I need more screen time with genuine interactions between Gwen and Jack and the new Americans.

                The one liners were superb, especially the bridge one. It reminds me of some of the best Whedon comedy writing - the babbling approach to comedy. This seems a new departure for Torchwood, as its humour is usually more deadpan.

                The premise is great - people can't die... except Jack. Can't wait to see how that plays out.

                This ep was a little uneven, but I'm v excited to see what comes next.

                -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --


                • #53
                  Torchwood sex scene to be cut from UK broadcast...


                  And so it begins. There were rumours going around saying they were going to do this and it looks like they were right.


                  • #54
                    I'm really pleased with the season so far, it does remind me of COE in style (even if it's not as tight and good as that so far, though not too bad or as bad as much of s1-2 either), and I'm finding the situation and set-up to be quite interesting and exciting....(do we really have to spoilertag this if this is a thread to discuss the show?)

                    Gwen is awesome so far, I loved her confrontation with Sierra Dichen's character on the plane (I also didn't realize that actress would be in this, a nice surprise!), and her baby is the most adorable thing ever (especially when it's wearing protective earmuffs! ). Jack is well...Jack, lol. And I think the new characters are promising enough, I like Esther especially. Jilly is creepy/sinister, can't wait to see more of her game. And once again RTD has come up with an intriguing situation bringing out the darkest and worst side of humanity and realistically showing the effects (like the reactions to Oswald).

                    I'm also satisfied that they haven't completely forgotten about everything that came before so far, they've mentioned Ianto, he used Owen's name, you especially got to see the traumatic after-effects of COE for Gwen and Rhys in the beginning in Wales (I hadn't even thought about them, glad RTD did), etc. I think that Jack being so sure that Oswald was lying about feeling forgiven for killing a child was supposed to be a reflection of his continuing guilt about what he did to his grandson in COE. They even had a nod to the parent universe with the "bigger on the inside" reference (not to mention all the "LOL Wales" stuff that always permeated both). In short, so far I don't think the American shift has ruined the show by any means, and I have to admit I'm enjoying seeing Torchwood characters playing around in my hometown!

                    As far as old-school Torchwood, they even had those gratuitous sex scenes, lol (though given it's Starz it's to be expected, and frankly it's miraculous there weren't any sooner!). I thought the Jack call to Gwen with her just hanging up on him to talk with Rhys was classic and hilarious.

                    Originally posted by Wolfie Gilmore View Post
                    Am closing my eyes - well, squinting down - in case there are any spoilers in the posts above. Can't wait! Loved the last miniseries (apart from maybe some bits towards the end) so really looking forward to it. Bit sad about Ianto still. If it was Ianto and Jack instead of Gwen and Jack, I think I'd prefer that. I don't think Gwen gets very well written - they try too hard to make the the heart of the show (a la Cordy on Angel).
                    But she kind of is the heart of the show? I mean the first episode of Torchwood was about her discovering and joining TW, all from her perspective. She's supposed to be a major player, has been from the beginning. Love her or hate her, but that was the creative intent of the show from the get-go, so it wouldn't really make sense to just kill her off.
                    Last edited by sherrilina; 26-07-11, 11:02 PM.
                    Promise that you'll return to me.

                    icon by sireesanswar


                    • #55
                      Well I've downloaded it and seen it now and I have to say that I think things are finally starting to kick off for me now. Thought this was the best episode so far although I still think that there's a wee bit too much padding in certain aspects of the plot, but on the whole I loved it. Still wish Jack was more central to the whole things though.

                      And yay for Gwen's comments on high heeled shoes!!

                      Looking forward to watching the UK version with one eye on Twitter where Jane Espenson takes you through her writing decisions as the episode plays 'live' so to speak every week. very interesting stuff.

                      Can't wait for the next episode.


                      • #56
                        Heh, I actually wasn't as fond of this week's epp as the last few ones, IDK Esther and Rex's storylines didn't do as much for me, and god how dumb were Esther and Rhys respectively, going to a house that will obviously be watched and suddenly trusting the government and "overflow camps" for Gwen's dad after all the paranoia at the beginning of the season.... And I'm a little confused about Jilly's character now, the way she was suddenly so different this week (no longer sinister and in control at all), and how she's only NOW acting wary of Oswald and his hands...maybe because she heard his confession to Jack?

                        Loved the "John Smith" ref (lol oh Jack, you still try) though, and also Rex at one point says to Vera, "You're the Doctor"! . And the scene with Gwen's fake American accent was priceless... I also enjoyed the heels comment, as someone noted though she looked like she was dressed to audition for Mad Men in that scene, lol...

                        The preview for next week looks epic though, with some COE epp 5-stye Gwen narrations...I think it is really going to pick up now!
                        Promise that you'll return to me.

                        icon by sireesanswar


                        • #57
                          Not sure about this episode really. I thought It was good, but I felt the direction of the story was all over the place, and the Doctors death to be a tad predictable, knowing RTD's (like Whedons) past history for killing off characters. Pity they didn't off Ester instead imo.

                          Also I found It felt a lot more 'TW' when Gwen was back in Wales, rather then then in the states, and for gods sake Russell, give Jack something more to do! It's his bloody show for christ sake.

                          All in all, It was good, but could be a hell of a lot better imo.


                          • #58
                            I've actually put off the last two episodes for 2 1/2 weeks now, so I guess I'll watch them now. Well, that sort of says it all concerning how well the series is keeping me invested.

                            The lack of anything at all for Jack to do has definitely been a disappointment, though the plot has its interesting bits. The fact that they made Jack mortal and... they've done absolutely nothing to explore it... has been the biggest problem with it so far. He's just... there.

                            In other Whovian news, I finished off The Awakening and Frontios last night/this morning, which means I'm done with Davison. Recons and McCoy, ahoy!

                            What I have left to watch:
                            William Hartnell:
                            Marco Polo
                            The Sensorites
                            The Reign of Terror
                            The Crusade
                            Galaxy 4
                            Mission to the Unknown
                            The Myth-Makers
                            The Daleks' Master Plan
                            The Massacre of St. Bartholomew's Eve
                            The Celestial Toymaker (1-3)
                            The Savages
                            The Smugglers
                            The Tenth Planet

                            Patrick Troughton:
                            The Power of the Daleks
                            The Moonbase (1, 3)
                            The Faceless Ones (2, 4-6)
                            The Abominable Snowmen (1, 3-6)
                            The Web of Fear (2-6)
                            Fury from the Deep
                            The Wheel in Space (1-3, 5)
                            The Space Pirates (1, 3-6)

                            Jon Pertwee:
                            Colony in Space (2-6)

                            Tom Baker:

                            Sylvester McCoy:
                            Time and the Rani
                            Paradise Towers
                            Delta and the Bannermen
                            Remembrance of the Daleks
                            The Happiness Patrol
                            Silver Nemesis
                            The Greatest Show in the Galaxy
                            Ghost Light
                            The Curse of Fenric

                            David Tennant:
                            The Infinite Quest

                            Jaws of Orthus
                            Curse of Anubis
                            Alien Avatar
                            The Last Oak Tree
                            Black Hunger
                            The Cambridge Spy
                            The Lost Library of Ukko
                            Mutant Copper
                            The Custodians
                            Taphony and the Time Loop
                            Robot Gladiators
                            Mind Snap
                            Angel of the North
                            The Last Precinct
                            Hound of the Korven
                            Eclipse of the Korven

                            Big Finish & New Series Adventures:
                            I've listened to every Frazer Hines Companion Chronicle/Lost Story (The Forbidden Time, The Emperor of Eternity, Prison in Space, The Glorious Revolution, Helicon Prime, City of Spires, Night's Black Agents, The Wreck of the Titan & Legend of the Cybermen), The Prisoner of Peladon w/ David Troughton, The Three Companions w/ Nicholas Courtney (the last time he ever played the Brig) and Anneke Wills, The Stone Rose w/ David Tennant and The Runaway Train w/ Matt Smith.


                            And I just watched those last two episodes.
                            Well, the concentration camp imagery was perhaps a bit on the heavy side.
                            Jack sort of got a bit more than usual to do, but he's not really the lead anymore (Rex seems to be the one that they're putting front and center). I'd like to see Jack do something other than stalk Oswald, bugging him about morality, and standing around, cracking a few dull token gay jokes here and there to irritate Rex (is it just me or does Barrowman look tired?--perhaps it's just that he's noticeably aging and looking a bit more gaunt than usual). Gwen is probably the most likable character of the lot. The story is starting to pick up a bit, so that's good. The show borders on preachy/heavy-handed at the moment.

                            I'm kind of missing that supernatural/sci-fi element other than the Miracle, itself. The storyline is more interested in being a political thriller. Hopefully, the cause of the Miracle will bring in something a bit more unearthly. The show seems to be trying to be aiming for the non-fantasy geek Starz audience and is keeping those elements to a minimum outside of the initial plot device. Even Jack's sci-fi character background is reduced to a minimum (which is why it's a shame they aren't really exploring what it means for him to be mortal). Phicorp is also a bit intangible and faceless at the moment.

                            Also, "the Great Leap Forward" isn't something I so much as associate with going from ape to man, but Mao Tse-Tung killing 70 million people. Was using that loaded term just an oversight by the writer or intentional? I'm not sure there wouldn't be at least some people that that would raise red flags for.
                            Last edited by NileQT87; 16-08-11, 01:44 AM.

                            "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                            "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."


                            • #59
                              Some interesting stuff in this one by the looks of it, and It couldn't come a day too soon imo. Oh Harkness, why do you manage to f*ck things up around you wherever you go?


                              If ever there was a case for speeding things up it would be this season. I think that on the evidence so far they could have done this whole story in 5 episodes, rather then 10 and you don't often see me saying something like that either.


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by sueworld View Post
                                Some interesting stuff in this one by the looks of it, and It couldn't come a day too soon imo. Oh Harkness, why do you manage to f*ck things up around you wherever you go?


                                If ever there was a case for speeding things up it would be this season. I think that on the evidence so far they could have done this whole story in 5 episodes, rather then 10 and you don't often see me saying something like that either.
                                Unfortunatly next week looks like a fifty minute data dump!

                                I mean this recent episode was just...terrible - nothing happened and Jack's story made no time sense (oh so Oswald is done and hes already fully investigated a businessman in the same time it took Rex to sit the **** down?!)

                                Also Rex could have just put on a nurses uniform - would make ALOT more sense.

                                Overall nothing happened -- except we got a new word 'the blessing' (eg. 'the miracle )

                                Oh and why does Gwen need to catch Jack, can they not manage that?

                                This series overall...has had pretty much NO consistency or real depth. Its just been pretty rubbish frankly.