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  • Thanks for explaining, that makes the episode better.


    I can't wait for next week; I still suspect that River is the little girl and thus Amy's daughter. But let's see what Moffat came up with.



    edit:

    Spoiler:
    And we know the name of Amy's daughter; Melody. Melody Pond --> River Song. So River is at least Amy's child. And to prevent incest I guess they won't make the Doctor the father.
    Last edited by Nina; 29-05-11, 10:09 PM.

    Comment


    • Matt has had a really good last 3 episodes, in particular. And I've fully enjoyed the last 4.

      I must say I was quite thrilled to hear Tom Baker (a really dramatic voice change--by far the deepest voice of all the Doctors--which is probably why it was chosen--"Would you like a jelly baby?"--the man's voice is so famous, they had him record every sound in the English language for text messages--seriously!) and David Tennant's (a not as obvious one, but he says "Hello, I'm the Doctor."--and it's David's voice, not Matt's) voices come out of ganger!Doctor's mouth along with some of William Hartnell (a misquoted "We shall get back." from An Unearthly Child said as "We will get back." by Matt--"What you need is a jolly good smacked bottom!" would have been hilarious), Jon Pertwee ("Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow.") and Colin Baker's ("Why, why, why?!"--"Carrot juice?" or "I'm the Doctor, whether you like it or not." would have been more obvious) lines.

      Shame about no "Oh, my giddy aunt!" ("Oh, my giddy aunt. Oh, crumbs."/"Oh, dear."/"Oh, my word!") or "When I say run, run." (which would be Patrick Troughton's). Most of the Doctors had catchphrases. For Peter Davison, you'd probably put in something about cricket or Brazil "Where the nuts come from." Sylvester McCoy rolling his 'R's or his rice pudding speech would have been priceless. But you can't have everything. And if Paul McGann's most famous line of "These shoes! They fit perfectly." was used, the whole gig with the switch-a-roo Doctors would have been up instantly.

      Over 7 minutes of Tom Baker (and a few others) talking about jelly babies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfisgGuuUD8&hd=1

      (Trivia: Patrick Troughton was actually the first to mention jelly babies in The Three Doctors. There's also a hilarious Five Doctors outtake of Troughton offering Jon Pertwee a jelly baby mid-shot and Pertwee saying that he's is trying to sabotage his performance. Troughton also originated the sonic screwdriver in a now-missing episode--other usages of it do survive--though Pertwee began to use it more regularly before it was destroyed in Davison's era.)

      I love fan-service. Apparently, it was a jokey spoiler way back that Tom Baker would be cameoing in series 6. Well, he kinda did! Rose is apparently going to get a mention sometime in the second half of this year's series. That's another spoiler.


      Of course, Eleven's shoes getting melted by acid was a huge hint and I did suspect that they had switched (if only to get Eleven back in his old black shoes by the end of the episode). Some of Matt's finest acting was when Eleven was pretending to be his ganger. It gave him an opportunity for a really powerful dramatic performance. And it's interesting that he now knows he's going to die. Perhaps he'll set up another ganger to die in his place.

      Definitely didn't see ganger!Amy coming, but it worked really well. Amy has been a ganger since the series opener (she really was pregnant when she was real and the ganger replaces her by the time she says she isn't pregnant).

      Yeah, Melody Pond and River Song is too big of a clue. I definitely think the regenerating girl is Rory and Amy's daughter, who is also River Song.
      Last edited by NileQT87; 30-05-11, 11:05 AM.

      "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
      "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

      Comment


      • Saved this one up cos of the two parter but, yeah, got to love the last two eps. The whole clones/robots/ other claiming humanity and the questions that drives has obviously been done before (Bladerunner anyone?)but as a meme it is still a fascinating set up. Here I think it could have perhaps been handled a little better but there are still some really good, thoughtful questions raised, probably more than can reasonably be expected from a Saturday tea time show.

        The Rebel Flesh was, i thought, more intriguing than anything else. The pacing seemed perhaps a tad off. I'd have liked a bit more of a pause between Ganger Buzzer's demise and all out war for instance but the Doctor interacting with the flesh was fantastic as was the stunt with the plate. I'm not sute about Jennifers role as leader and most violent of the Gangers though, I'd have thought that would have gone to Cleaves although I suppose it just goes to show that you never really know what's bubbling away under the surface.

        What I did love is Rory's genuine and completely understandable empathy for the flesh. I think it's wholly fitting that the man who was plastic for over a thousand years would be the one to identify with the Gangers plight. It might have got him into trouble in the end but I still have to applaud him for that.

        As for that ending, well now! The assumption would have to be that Amy has not been Amy since the Silence kidnapped her although the midwife doesn't seem that silence-y really so that makes me wonder if it goes back even before that perhaps even to last season. Whichever way, I think next ep we're gonna get to see a very angry Rory and that's something I'm looking forward to a lot!

        Oh and, totally called the shoe swap!!
        JUST ENOUGH KILL

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        • @Nile thanks for all the links (guess what I'll be watching tonight).

          I am a casual observer of the series and I only saw from the Eccleston's Doctor Who. The Confidential for the last episode was very useful, gang!Doctor and voices from the past - is this some sort of foreshadowing multiple instances of doctors? ( David Tennant and Peter Davidson are credited as The Doctor for ep.13 on IMDB's page)
          "Gunn dies, Illyria Survives, Spike shanshus, Angel looses an arm and Xander looses an arm too, which is odd because he wasn't even there."
          Joss Whedon at the High Stakes convention - 2004

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          • I really loved this episode. I half feel like the doctor swap was more to throw the audience off the trail about ganger!Amy, because dang that was a surprise. SO GOOD!

            I've only started watching Doctor Who constantly the last six months and I swore until I was blue in my face that David Tennant was my Doctor, so I had put off watching Matt Smith episodes up until about 2 months ago. And I can't figure out why because Matt Smith is amazing! Every episode just keeps getting better in my opinion.

            I called the shoe swap and I feel like it was there as if that was suppose to be the thing that shocks you at the end of the episode, than BAM ganger!Amy.

            I can't help but think that the melody pond / river song just seems to obvious and they are just going to throw another curve ball at us but big chance I'm wrong. All I know is we FINALLY get to find out who River Song is. YAY
            Wesley: Remember the three key words for any Slayer: preparation... preparation... preparation.
            Buffy: That's one word three times.

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            • Originally posted by ubi4soft View Post
              @Nile thanks for all the links (guess what I'll be watching tonight).

              I am a casual observer of the series and I only saw from the Eccleston's Doctor Who. The Confidential for the last episode was very useful, gang!Doctor and voices from the past - is this some sort of foreshadowing multiple instances of doctors? ( David Tennant and Peter Davidson are credited as The Doctor for ep.13 on IMDB's page)
              IMDb might be talking crap (it is edited by normal Internet folks). But Tom Baker (this jelly baby incidence was from The Robots of Death) and David Tennant definitely had their voices in the last episode. Moffat actually was wrong about Jon Pertwee only saying "Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow." once, as he also said it a second time in The Five Doctors (not to mention the zillion times he said "reverse the polarity" by itself).

              Rose will be getting a mention (probably a brief line), however, in the second half of this season. That's one of the spoilers. I have no clue with David and Peter. Sounds more like the credits for Time Crash. David did do a commentary for The Five Doctors DVD and is present on the new Revisitations version of Resurrection of the Daleks DVD documentary (both Peter Davison). Of course, David Tennant and Georgia Moffett a.k.a. Jenny, the Doctor's daughter and real-life daughter of Peter, just had a baby girl this year. It's very likely that those two will be doing quite a few future appearances together.

              David has already talked about coming back for the 50th anniversary, so that's one past Doctor, at least, that wants to come back (actually, all bar Chris Eccleston are open to it--though Tom Baker has concerns about his age, but has finally gotten into the Big Finish audio recordings after the rest have been doing it for a decade--apparently, just a week before Lis died, he had agreed to do a series with her). Peter Davison, Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy and Paul McGann would jump at the chance. A few of the companion actors would love to reprise their roles as well (Russell T Davies already managed to bring back Sarah Jane, K-9, the Brigadier and Jo).

              I know that both Frazer Hines (Jamie McCrimmon) and Caroline John (Liz Shaw) have talked about wanting to come back. All of the living classic Doctors and most of the living companions are doing audio adventures for Big Finish (even ones like William Russell and Carole Ann Ford over 47 years later!). And apparently RTD wanted to bring back Romana (Time Lady, by the way) and a whole slew of other companions for Death of the Doctor, but they didn't have the budget for it. Nick Courtney was also supposed to appear alongside David Tennant in The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith, but he had a stroke (meaning his last appearance was Enemy of the Bane). Doctor Who definitely has an anniversary tradition of multi-Doc specials (The Three Doctors was the 10th, The Five Doctors was the 20th and Dimensions in Time was the 30th--The Two Doctors was the one multi-Doc born out of the reunion of Patrick Troughton and Frazer Hines on the set of The Five Doctors with John Nathan-Turner wanting to bring them back in 1985, despite no anniversary). Troughton and Pertwee's on-screen bickering became quite legendary and it was often a part of their convention shtick for the fans (Troughton actually died in costume in his hotel room at a Columbus, GA convention in 1987--Pertwee was flown in as a replacement). And despite Moffat's apparent dislike of multi-Doc stories, he wrote Time Crash. Moffat is a big fan of Peter Davison, so that does make him a likely returnee. RTD's favorite era seems to be the U.N.I.T. years of the '70s (though he started watching in the '60s right around the Troughton era--but he's probably the more positive all-eras classic Who fan than Moffat).

              The coral TARDIS was kept around since 2009 (the cast ate lunch often on that set, which was next door to Eleven's TARDIS) just for The Doctor's Wife (which was originally intended for series 5 and would have been Roryless). It has now been moved to the Doctor Who Experience.

              And as for my fanvid links gone mad...

              Knock yourself out with my playlists:
              Classic DW pt. 1: http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=3210FDED6F9284B3
              Classic DW pt. 2: http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=74A0DA4B3242830A
              NuWho pt. 1: http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=EC9BA7CC44F08E4A
              NuWho pt. 2: http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=DB93F24D99D711BB


              You'll notice a lot of Ten, a bit of Eleven, a ton of Two/Jamie, a bunch of Nick Courtney (Brigadier) and Lis Sladen (Sarah Jane) tributes (most made right after their deaths--there was quite a ruckus when series 6 failed to give a text tribute to Nick--107 DW + 2 SJA episodes over 43 years!--and another one when BAFTA also forgot him), a growing bunch of Four and a sprinkling of the rest (really, I'm desperately looking for more Three/Jo ones). There are some really good all-inclusive (nu and classic combined) tributes in there.

              Here's a few treats that include both nu and classic eras:
              A massively amazing all-Doctor tribute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SexHUQDFBVQ&hd=1
              Another all-Doctor tribute w/ quotes and regenerations: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsgmsDx5KOg&hd=1
              A companion guide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=publs5vuGJs&hd=1
              Every story with clips up until 2008: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCZhlEdGIm0&hd=1
              Companions!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqPCcV7lHzc&hd=1
              Some of the sad goodbyes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3VrZDMXHmE
              Some of the cheesiest moments in the show's history (all eras): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW0H_rprV-g&hd=1 (hello, bubblewrap, giant clam/rat, phallic Erato and all of those epically delightful moments of fail)
              Doctor torture (another example of how the show hasn't changed): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05dcm...e=related&hd=1
              Dancing!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxedF-oAOF0&hd=1
              Doctors picking out their clothes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJ_MQs7db-0&hd=1
              The Doctor is stronger than yesterday (LOL): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ_EHv4_vOA&hd=1
              Some of the Doctor's closest companions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJb4XdAKY4A&hd=1


              And check out Babelcolour's Ten Doctors multi-Doc edit project where he has managed to put all the Doctors in scenes together with rotoscoping (it's still incomplete, so who knows if Eleven might pop in eventually) and actually tell a new story (seriously advanced editing--and check out everything else this guy has done including colorization projects--ye gads).
              Last edited by NileQT87; 02-06-11, 06:53 AM.

              "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
              "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

              Comment


              • Some interesting speculation going on right now about the new spoiler pictures released for A Good Man Goes to War.

                http://www.eyeofhorus.org.uk/content.../05-may11.html

                Apparently, there's a character named Jenny (though with dark hair, a mole and wields a katana) and there's speculation that she might be a regenerated Doctor's daughter. (Well, Moffat did tell RTD to keep the character alive--and Georgia Moffett would have been very pregnant around the time they filmed this, so it would make sense for the role to be recast.) Of course, it's all rumor.

                Though she was made out of a DNA sample from the Doctor, which might be the real source of the Doctor's Time Lord DNA in what might be the regeneration girl/Melody Pond/River Song Time Tot. River's line about everyone wanting a single cell of rare Time Lord DNA (hence the funeral pyre) was definitely not an accident. And Jenny is the only other source for the Doctor's DNA in the universe.

                Hmm...

                Also, besides the Nixon prequel for The Impossible Astronaut, there were also prequels for The Curse of the Black Spot and now A Good Man Goes to War (Dorium, The Pandorica Opens' blue man, is in the clip).

                6x01 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgXUlKS8cp8&hd=1
                6x03 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0B_mRegKAY&hd=1
                6x07 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8fy0N3oCPQ&hd=1
                Last edited by NileQT87; 31-05-11, 07:21 AM.

                "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

                Comment


                • Doctor Who writer Steven Moffat to 'rest' Daleks

                  The Daleks are to be given "a rest" from battling Doctor Who, writer Steven Moffat has told the Radio Times.

                  Moffat, who is also the BBC television show's executive producer, said: "They aren't going to make an appearance for a while. We thought it was about time to give them a rest."

                  The Daleks were voted the scariest villains in the history of Doctor Who in a poll of fans in 2007.

                  Moffat said they had been defeated by the Doctor "about 400 times".

                  Created by Terry Nation, the Daleks are the Doctor's hugely popular enemies who have made regular appearances in the long-running science fiction show since first appearing in 1963.

                  Moffat said: "There's a problem with the Daleks. They are the most famous of the Doctor's adversaries and the most frequent, which means they are the most reliably defeatable enemies in the universe."

                  Recent episodes of the show, which stars Matt Smith as the timelord, have been criticised for being "too scary for children".

                  But Moffat said: "It is horror, but horror for children. It's scary in the way that a fairy story can be scary."
                  Woohoo, I hope the BBC lets him retire the Daleks -at least for a while- because I got so tired of them. How scary is an archnemesis who is defeated twice a year?

                  Comment


                  • Spoiler:
                    Yeah, I'm thrilled as well. And even in their heyday (honestly, it was the '60s when the stories with them actually felt relevant--well, up through Genesis of the Daleks, perhaps--that one is famous for Four's dilemma of whether or not he has the right to kill a child if you know it's going to grow up to do great evil), they are hardly my favorites. Let's face it, I'm far more interested in the fallout between Two and Jamie in The Evil of the Daleks and rescuing Victoria from her captivity (and the murder of her father) than anything the Daleks do in that serial and that's supposed to be one of their better uses (humanized Dalek experiments--and the Daleks are totally outdone in scariness by Maxtible's gigantic beard--LOL). And Davros always outshines the Daleks in his stories--as he actually has a personality and a bit more variety in how he thinks. But even his wheelchair rig was getting pushed around by Tom Baker in comedy mode by the time of Destiny of the Daleks.





                    Ditto with the Cybermen. The only Cyberman in the history of the show that was kind of interesting is the insane one (made insane by making it feel the emotion of fear--which is an attempt by a human to control them for their own nefarious purposes) going through the sewers in The Invasion. But again, Tobias Vaughn is the really interesting HUMAN villain in that serial (with Packer as his slimy, incompetent sidekick that Jamie gets to pummel to the ground--"Paacker!"). They were also at their peak in the '60s. Well, their The Tomb of the Cybermen and The Invasion were their peak appearances, IMO. The Tenth Planet (Hartnell's regeneration story), where they originally had cloth faces, were a bit more disturbing-looking (despite their crude cheapness--they looked more like human body horror and less like robots). And well, The Moonbase, which introduced the metal-faced Cybermen, is mostly memorable for Polly making a lot of coffee, the companions hopping around the moon in spacesuits and a sweaty, delirious, chest-bared, bedridden Jamie thinking that the Cyberman coming for him was the Phantom Piper (possibly the most unintentionally hilarious cliffhanger in the show's history--okay, besides Zoe's sparkly bottom on the spinning TARDIS console facing the camera). "It's you, the Phantom Piper! No, no, I will not go with ye!" Speaking of Cybermen cliffhangers: the one of Jamie shut in a casket with a Cyberman coming to life beside him (and it looking like something entirely else moving around under a blanket) is another memorable one.




                    Troughton was the king of the Cybermen stories, while Hartnell's era was Daleks, Daleks and more Daleks. And the Daleks officially became hilarious when a smiling Hartnell pops out of a dead one after wiggling around the plunger and doing the silly voice in The Space Museum. Or possibly even when Ian was inside one in The Daleks pretending to be one (the second serial in the show's history and first appearance of the buggers).



                    Jon Pertwee's era actually benefited, IMO, from retiring the Cybermen (except one teensy cameo in Carnival of Monsters where it was just an image of one). Of course, it was his era that introduced the Autons (and Auton-Rory wins for the best use of the concept--though the retro-looking creepy eyeless dummies coming alive in the shop windows is pretty iconic--the imagery in Rose was almost an exact copy of the scene in Spearhead in Space), Silurians and Sontarans. Even by Pertwee's era, the Daleks and Cybermen were thought to have been overused.



                    The Ice Warriors would be fun to see again, though. They haven't been seen since Three and Sarah Jane's era (though were really Troughton's foes) in The Monster of Peladon (the sequel to The Curse of Peladon). They were actually mentioned in the Tennant era in The Waters of Mars (they're Martians). And their design wasn't completely daft due to the fact that they're mostly obscured by helmets (unlike the Silurians, where Moffat's more humanoid redesign also caused uproar in the fan community--they had rubber face masks that looked pretty daft in the classic series). Though, even with them and their blasters that make the screen go wonky, it was comedy hour with Troughton in a bubble bath, making faces at exploding balloons, and running around mirror rooms with his Charlie Chaplin gait (which just about sums up The Seeds of Death--and of course, one of the highlights of The Invasion is, again, Troughton doing his hilarious bowlegged run and side-hops as Cybermen shoot up his backside). The Troughton era was adorably slapstick with leads that were putting in jokes that weren't all in the scripts (best buds Patrick Troughton and Frazer Hines doing their hand-holding gag, for example--those two touching each other awkwardly needs to be a drinking game--they were together and inseparable in all but 2 stories and Jamie holds the record to this day of being the companion in the most episodes--a whopping 117).






                    Though even Troughton, the unassuming little cosmic hobo and "clown", had his dark moments, such as setting up an angry Jamie to rescue Victoria while making him think he has sided with the Daleks and has betrayed them (sadly, this episode is lost in all but audio and telesnaps). And The War Games is one of the more serious serials in the show's history (along with Peter Davison's The Caves of Androzani, which has the mutilated masked man who loves beauty, Sharaz Jek, making lecherous moves on Peri--and there's a beautiful moment where the Doctor steps between them to protect Peri). The War Games is possibly my favorite story in the show's history. You've got to love that bleak ending with the companions getting their memories wiped by the Time Lords (when they were actually mysterious and scary--not corrupt, old, lazy bureaucrats in silly costumes in the Citadel). You've got Jamie, who was rescued from the gallows after the all-out historical slaughter of the Scottish at the Battle of Culloden (pretty gutsy for a mostly-English show to portray the English as the villains in a story--The Highlanders is pretty unique in that regard and as the last pure historical in the show's history that had absolutely no sci-fi outside of Two, Ben and Polly arriving there), being sent back to face a musket-wielding redcoat with a sword... and Zoe's beautiful "I thought I'd forgotten something important, but it's nothing." Their ending is much like Donna's.



                    As far as monsters for the kids vs. what's really memorable about the stories... The Brigadier (whom the Doctor had a fairly dodgy relationship with in season 7--you've got two alpha males wanting to do things their way and the Doctor without his TARDIS to escape in--though the Brigadier is a big, oft-teased, adorably pompous teddy bear by the end of his very long run on the show) blowing up the Silurians while the Doctor was trying to make peace with them or Cpt. Yates betraying the Doctor, Brigadier and Sgt. Benton (both of whom risk their careers to help the Doctor) in order to bring about Earth's golden age and getting discharged for it are more interesting than the Silurians and the endlessly amusing '70s model dinosaurs in those respective stories. ...And speaking of companions who had a dodgy relationship with the Doctor at some point: Vislor Turlough, the self-interested, tortured coward who spent most of his time on the TARDIS being menaced by the Black Guardian into killing the Doctor (he actually sabotages the TARDIS) until he gave up Enlightenment to save him (but even continued to carry secrets until his last story, where the Doctor threatened that their friendship was over if he didn't come clean). Same with the beastie in The Curse of Peladon (which the Doctor sings a lullaby to to put it to sleep) not being the point of the story at all--but rather the weak, confused king that proposes to Jo and can't stand up to his corrupt advisors to save the Doctor (the "monster" is really just a tool of superstition used by the powerful on Peladon). Even then, I don't really think the creature-feature factor, despite it being really popular with the kids of the era--to the point of things like the term "Dalek mania" in the '60s--really is what works for even those stories.


                    (David Troughton, here as King Peladon, is Pat's son and was in The War Games, The Curse of Peladon and Midnight with David Tennant as Professor Hobbes. Harry Melling a.k.a. Dudley Dursley from the Harry Potter movies, is Patrick Troughton's grandson, by the way--and since he's lost weight, you can actually see a strong resemblance.)




                    ("'Pompous, self-opinionated idiot', I believe you said, Doctor?")

                    So, I'm glad they're retiring the Daleks for a while. And the Moffat redesign was so tragic that even fans of the Daleks want them to go away (the lone stone one that begs for mercy from River in the series 5 finale was one of the better usages of them, though).

                    Granted, I've never been scared by anything in the show, despite all these older fans telling how scary the show was to them as kids (particularly in the '60s--the black & white really does help with the creepy tone). The Vashta Nerada and Midnight creature were certainly more in the right direction than bringing back the Daleks and Cybermen for a giggle (and they're pretty much all comedy value now). And I'd absolutely adore to see the return of Jeremy Baines/Son of Mine and his scarecrows (probably the villain I most want to see again).

                    Along with the Land of Fiction (The Mind Robber). I love the Land of Fiction and desperately want it to return. Com'on, how can you not love a world where fictional characters like Gulliver, Rapunzel, Medusa, d'Artagnon vs. Cyrano de Bergerac + Lancelot vs. Blackbeard in a sword fight, wind-up toy soldiers, etc... are all real and you risk writing yourself into fiction if you're not careful? It's brilliant. And I also loved the return of it in the Big Finish audios. Cyber-converted Wagnerian Valkyries and Cyber-converted Moby-Dick with torpedoes vs. the Nautilus--seriously the most hilarious audio experience I've ever had. And Zoe's construct of an older fiction!Jamie, who was made as a friend for the Doctor from her mind--she becomes the Mistress of the Land of Fiction after escaping a Cyber-conversion, herself, on the Wheel and ends up getting her memories rewiped all over again--realizing that he was fiction with ink for blood and telling off Six for leaving the real Jamie to probably get hung after Culloden without his memories was just heartbreaking. The Cybermen became far more enjoyable than ever before in those audios (think Oliver Twist saying "I want some more." in a Cyberman voice). It feeds my nerdy, fiction-loving heart. Same way that The War Games feeds my nerdy history-loving heart with a mash-up of Mexican bandidos, WWI British and German troops, Civil War soldiers, Roman legions, etc... all rising up against the alien War Lords (who are being helped by a rogue Time Lord called the War Chief) that are brainwashing them to think they're all fighting in their own times. Only for the all-powerful Time Lords to show up and do some punishing (even to the Doctor). There's some real opportunity with the Land of Fiction. And then there's always the wonder if the Doctor, Jamie and Zoe ever did leave! The end is completely ambiguous! For all we know, the story could still be there! Now that would be the greatest mindf*ck of all time if the last 43 years of story have been in the Land of Fiction alternate universe without the Doctor realizing it.






                    Some of the older fans tend to get upset at the new series over some of the romantic situations it has produced. Well, really starting with Paul McGann's Eighth Doctor kissing Grace in the 1996 movie. Jamie does manage to still get in 3 kisses (to Sam, Victoria and Peri--and only the one to Peri on the cheek now survives as more than audio--the one to Sam was definitely on the lips--and his whole 3 years on the show had him having misadventures with girl trouble--either getting flirted with by Swinging Sixties babes in plaid miniskirts, being afraid of what the primping girls will do to him if they make him look "charming", his unrequited love for Victoria--which leads to him teasing her about her wearing short dresses, climbing up Rapunzel's rope of hair and asking awkwardly to be let in her castle even though he's the son of a piper/not a prince or 18th century him getting schooled on feminism and suffrage when he tries to act chivalrous with girls from his future). Troughton also kisses Zoe on the forehead and Nyssa kisses Davison on the cheek when she leaves... And of course, Jo with Cliff. Which is the entirety of the kissing in the Classic series. Though Jo, Sarah Jane and Nyssa have all hinted at romantic feelings for the Doctor (Sarah Jane doing so in School Reunion), and, with Romana, it was heavily implied with the actors trying to take it in that direction, but the incoming John Nathan-Turner, in particular, wanted no hanky-panky in the TARDIS (to the point where Davison was banned from putting his arms around any of the girls as he was so young--he was only allowed to touch Adric--poor Peter!). Tom Baker and Lalla Ward (who were married for 18 months) actually did a series of Pr1me computer ads with them acting flirty/couply while in costume and in character--one of these ads had the Doctor proposing to Romana.








                    And well, the Cybermats (coming up in series 6--there was a whole filming spoiler video of Craig from The Lodger with a baby and Matt holding a Cybermat), have always been more adorable than scary. I mean, screamer Victoria even put one in her purse because it was so disarmingly cute with its little foamy feet bits and wiggle eyes. Of course, they also attack and inject venom in you that turns you veiny and kills. I do like the new redesign of those, though. They're back to being cute, unlike the last visual of them way back in The Revenge of the Cybermen (Tom Baker) where they were huge, long silver turds (Sarah Jane gets poisoned by one).





                    Frankly, the First Doctor in the first season doing things like abduct Ian and Barbara, try to bash in a caveman's skull with a rock (Ian stops him), sabotage the TARDIS, side with the Daleks, ditch his own granddaughter with a non-regenerating human man she's just met (he doesn't even know she's an alien) in a Dalek-invaded, dystopian future Earth because he wants her to have her own life, unknowingly making a poisoned needle for an Aztec warrior to try to kill Ian with--and putting Ian in an unwanted position where he ends up having to kill that Aztec warrior in a fight to the death, etc... makes him one of the scariest things in the show's history. Though he certainly softens up by the next season (he and Vicki are in giggling comedy-hour mode in The Romans while Ian is sold into slavery and Barbara is chased around the palace by a lecherous Nero). The Doctor's dark side, even in those first stories, is far scarier than the first appearances of those legendary Daleks. Not to mention it was Six trying to strangle Peri right after regeneration (combined with the obnoxious Technicolor Dreamcoat) that was arguably the moment that Doctor never recovered from in the '80s and was the step too far.



                    Ahem. Spoilered for extreme length. Some fun tidbits, though. And even a spoiler about Matt Smith's series 6.
                    Last edited by NileQT87; 02-06-11, 04:12 AM.

                    "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                    "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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                    • A wonderful clip from A Good Man Goes to War with River and Rory (love the outfits) has been released by the BBC: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr8YaqPi2Ao&hd=1

                      "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                      "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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                      • Releasing that clip is evil, how can I wait until saturday after watching that scene.

                        Okay not I'm scared that it will be a let down.

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                        • excited?... Just a bit!

                          Do wonder about
                          Spoiler:
                          River's outfit though.
                          JUST ENOUGH KILL

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                          • And there is another clip: click


                            Spoiler:
                            So I guess that Doctor is really lining up his allies to go to war, I wonder who will show up this episode.

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                            • Just a few new Youtubey finds:

                              Not new, but I'll never be done pimping this all-eras video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SexHUQDFBVQ&hd=1

                              Amazing compare and contrast of lots of great companion clips from all eras: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlt_cHjVnjk&hd=1

                              The Mind Robber + White Rabbit (a match made in a hallucinogenic haze?): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO4UDe6RfiM&hd=1

                              Spoiler:


                              "Well, because, well, we're nowhere. It's as simple as that."

                              "Is that really Jamie?"
                              "Well. Well, yes."
                              "But he couldn't just have changed like that, I mean it's impossible."
                              "Well, I think we may be in a place where nothing is impossible. Come on."

                              "Are you a prince?"
                              "No. Why?"
                              "You're supposed to be. I'm a princess, but I suppose you knew that. My name is Rapunzel. You're not a woodcutter's son, by any chance?"
                              "No, I'm the son of a piper."
                              "Oh, how very disappointing. Well, in that case I think you'd better go. Goodbye."
                              "Your highness, wait."
                              "Well?"
                              "I can't go back there. It's a sheer drop. And well, I can't just stand out here. I'll have to climb though the window."
                              "Oh. Well, I don't know if that will be allowed."
                              "Well, I won't stay long. Just passing through, you might say. Och, please?"
                              "It's a great pity you're not a prince. You'd have made rather a good one. Well, I suppose you'd better come inside. For goodness' sake, be quiet."

                              "'One glance from her eyes would turn them to stone, but all was not yet lost. Suddenly, the Doctor found a sword at his feet, picked it up and with one stroke slew the monster.'"
                              "A sword!"
                              "Well, that's it. You're meant to use the sword like Perseus."
                              "Maybe it's another trap?"
                              "Oh, Doctor, please!"
                              "No. How can I kill something that doesn't exist?"

                              "'Cancel. Doctor test report failure.' Oh, I think I'm beginning to understand."
                              "Well, I wish I was."
                              "Well, when someone writes about an incident after it's happened, that is history."
                              "Yes."
                              "But when the writing comes first, that's fiction. If we'd have fallen into the Master's trap, we would have become fiction."

                              "'The enemy had been finally defeated by the Doctor.' No, no, I can't say that. If I say that. I nearly fell for it, didn't I? Another two seconds and I should have turned myself into fiction!"

                              "I see, yes. And only an Earthman-type creature has the power to create fiction. The power to imagine."
                              "Exactly. This is one field in which the intelligence I serve cannot compete. They need man, a man of boundless imagination, as a powerhouse. A lifeline, as you might say."
                              "What is this intelligence you serve and why was I brought me here?"
                              "Well, as you see, I'm no longer young, whereas you, Doctor, are ageless. You exist outside the barriers of time and space."
                              "And you want me to...?"
                              "To take over this unique situation. To take my place."
                              "I refuse!"

                              "Sausages. Man will just become like a string of sausages, all the same!"
                              Last edited by NileQT87; 04-06-11, 03:30 PM.

                              "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                              "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

                              Comment


                              • Possibly... Uh, oh...

                                http://www.facebook.com/The.Doctor.W...02632443163610

                                http://www.mirror.co.uk/celebs/tv/20...5875-23178028/

                                While Matt has made it very clear that he's staying until 2013 for the 50th anniversary, apparently once he leaves, he doesn't plan to come back. ...Which is actually a problem in terms of Doctor Who tradition. Good luck in Hollywood (so far, the closest to mainstream big movie, but supporting roles for the Doctors have been Pat in The Omen and David in Goblet of Fire--and of course, Chris has had a considerable stateside career--Tom actually had two Golden Globe nominations for his 1971 portrayal of Rasputin in Nicholas and Alexandra, but he got typecast pretty bad post-Who--Sylvester is about to be one of the dwarves in The Hobbit). It sounds like 2013 will probably be his last year (which will give him a nice 4 seasons). Though, I guess he might be referring to "never been back" as there hasn't been a deregeneration. But it's not like the Doctors and companions are done with the franchise when they leave (quite the opposite--and 5 of the Doctors and most of the living companions are still expanding their eras in audio).

                                That'll put just Tom (7) and Jon (5) ahead of him (though Hartnell and Troughton's 3ish seasons each had a whole lot more episodes, as their seasons usually had 44 episodes, which is basically the equivalent of a modern American-length season, but with usually very long serial stories (and in the case of Troughton, it was that schedule with only several weeks off per year that also contributed to wearing him out... Hartnell started getting absent from episodes, and, of course, he was pushed out by production for his illness that made it very difficult to remember lines and he was getting increasingly angry at others about it, even though he didn't want to leave). Tom Baker's era usually had 26 episodes per season, for comparison--which is closer to nuWho's season length. And Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy's eras had their season lengths slashed by half of that.

                                Hopefully, he'll change his mind and come back for all the future milestone anniversaries (multi-Doc specials!). I dear hope he won't want to become the new Eccleston (my goodness, you're more likely to get Tom Baker back than Chris Eccleston--and he was formerly the elusive one--it only took him a decade to start doing Big Finish--can't wait until Big Finish gets the license for nuWho, as David has already actually done a bunch of the audios, but playing different characters). And look how that behavior has left a sour taste in the mouths of a lot of fans. As for elusive companions, Jackie Lane (Dodo) is the one living one who has genuinely refused to do anything Doctor Who-related and has stuck to it. Even a few who thought they'd never come back like Janet Fielding (Tegan) eventually joined Big Finish. And Wendy Padbury, who didn't think she had anything left to say at conventions (unlike the likes of Nicholas Courtney, Frazer Hines, Katy Manning, etc.. who were/are big storytellers or very chatty in commentaries), finally did when Matt Smith was cast (she discovered him in youth theater and became his agent).

                                Well, Matt's favorite, Patrick Troughton, was once afraid of type-casting. He infamously told Peter Davison to leave after 3 years, though the schedule, Pat's wife getting on him about being in a 'silly children's programme', Frazer being pushed to leave by his agent after 3 years and hanging on just for Pat (Frazer's well on record as wishing they had both stayed and it was their hugging and kissing display--really--when they were reunited on the set of The Five Doctors that inspired their casting in The Two Doctors--and Frazer was only not at the end of The Three Doctors because he couldn't get out of Emmerdale Farm, which also impeded his ability to get more than 2 days off for his Five Doctors cameo--the Brigadier thus became Two's companion for that story) and the type-casting were all part of it... And Davison also wanted out due to the production and scripts not being up to his standards. He's very harsh on his era and tends to compare it unfavorably to the new show. But despite all of that, look at how many times Pat came back (1973, 1983 and 1985). He was the king of the multi-Doc specials! Not to mention how he was doing conventions to the last day of his life (literally--he was in his Doctor costume--the last footage of him alive was taken by a fan while he was signing autographs the day before). Pat and Jon were ultimately the Doctors who returned the most. William Hartnell and Patrick Troughton both appeared the last time on the show just 2 years before each died. The actors cast have to realize by now that they'll probably be asked to come back decades after they leave. And that goes for the companions, too.

                                David Tennant was talking about coming back for the 50th anniversary when he did The Five Doctors commentary. He's also cracked jokes about how he shouldn't have picked such a skinny suit (Peter Davison had to use Colin Baker's version of his striped pants for Time Crash with an extra triangle of fabric in the back), due to the fact that he's going to need to be able to fit in his costume for the rest of his life pretty much (and was given one of the only 4 remaining versions of the brown suit for safe-keeping). So, David definitely realizes that he'll probably be coming back for decades to come.

                                I really hope Matt doesn't really mean it when he says he won't return. It'll be a sad thing. I was looking forward to seeing the likes of David and Matt coming back (and Peter's just chomping at the bit to have a sizable part in nuWho as he believes he would have made a better Doctor as an older actor--which he does in Big Finish--and he has visited the set on several occasions).





                                Speaking of those film roles of the Doctor and his companions:
                                Tom Baker as Rasputin in Nicholas and Alexandra (1971): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnBcybBeZ4w&hd=1 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCXpgw4JsP8&hd=1 (trivia: Tom Baker really was a monk for 6 years!)
                                Patrick Troughton as the priest who dies in The Omen (1976): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Pjnc5PKsI&hd=1
                                12-year-old Frazer Hines putting cake in Charlie Chaplin's hat in A King in New York (1957)--it was Frazer's idea and Chaplin liked it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw_GqL3pW84&hd=1
                                David Tennant in Goblet of Fire (2005): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEWQ3AXrgI&hd=1
                                Last edited by NileQT87; 04-06-11, 04:46 PM.

                                "If there is no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
                                "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us. Champions."

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