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3.01 Valar Dohaeris Discussion Thread

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  • #16
    Tyrion was far too arrogant with Tywin. On the BRs, we see that
    Spoiler:
    Tywin used to be the Hand of the King to King Aerys II. Jaime was only made a member of the Kingsguard by Aerys II as a diss to Tywin.


    Tywin is the “rightful” Hand of the King” and Jaime is the “rightful” heir to Casterly Rock.

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    • #17
      Tywin's time as Hand in the past is brought up in the series, I believe. Tyrion never disputes that Tywin had the prerogative to serve Joffrey himself (bolder would have been to call him out on not still being out there battling Robb Stark). But Tyrion raises the point that Jaime disclaimed his right to inherit Casterly Rock by taking up his cloak, so he wouldn't be the "rightful" heir at that point. Of all the things Tyrion could ask for "not being screwed out of what would be his without any ambiguity if he were but two feet taller" doesn't seem all that unfair to me
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      • #18
        Originally posted by Cori View Post
        So has anyone seen the season 3 premiere yet?
        I think I'm up to three times.

        My favourite part was Dany's storyline, so happy that her storyline this season will be so much better than season 2's.
        I'm looking forward to Dany's story this year. I knew that in last year there was going to have to be some excessive padding because in the book she pretty much wandered the desert for at least half the novel. This year they actually have far more story to work with so -- yay!

        I loved the reveal and re-entry of Ser Barristan Selmy, that was nicely done!
        I understand why they changed it from the book. On the show it's hard to hide who he is because not only would the bookreaders know but so would anyone re-watching the DVDs catching on. So I'm not complaining at all. It made for a nice episode ending. Though, I did like that in the book he hung around in disguise for a while judging Dany's character before choosing to pledge himself. The show comes off a tad bit differently because he revealed himself straight off, but again, I'm not complaining. And I'm looking forward to the Selmy/Jorah/Dany stuff.


        The Tywin and Tyrion scene was fantastic and some of the dialogue seemed to be word for word from the book.
        In the books I hated, hated, hated Tywin (same with Cersei).

        The Tywin/Arya scenes last year lent show!Tywin more humanity than Book!Tywin revealed (and they've made Cersei more human as well). I consider this to be an improvement.

        Still, that scene was brutal (and I think it is close to word for word to what was in the novel). Show!Tywin may be more human (though let's not forget that even in the show, Tywin demanded and paid for the public gangrape of Tyrion's Tysha. Plus, what he ordered (?) or at least allowed with impugnity(?) The Mountain to do to Rhaegar Targaryen's wife, the Dornish Princess, during Robert's coup (covered in last season's extras, so it's show canon too). So 'more human' is relative). Still, for a guy obsessed with his potential 'dynasty,' he's a truly awful father.

        Poor Tyrion, he really is in a sucky situation right now. Book spoiler:
        Spoiler:
        At least he got to keep his nose!
        Thank goodness!

        Loved Margaery and how she does charitable work and is like the complete opposite from Joffrey!
        That was great. Joffrey and Cersei are like "What is this 'compassion' thng? And with COMMONERS? SERIOUSLY?!!" I realize that Marg is being savvy and political (no wonder she got along with Renly). But even if it is partly (mostly?) pretense, it's a pretense that neither Joff nor Cersei could pull off for even half an hour!

        And I am so looking forward to the entry of Marg's and Loras' granny!

        I cannot wait to see more of Sansa and Littlefinger's plans. Book spoiler:
        Spoiler:
        I think the creators made a wise choice here by scrapping Ser Dontos and going straight to Littlefinger.
        Yeah. I agree. The books can get away with having a bazillion characters, but I do think it serves the show to consolidate so that the main characters do stuff whenever they can. Which I suppose is what they're doing with (future show spoiler)
        Spoiler:
        moving up Theon's Book V stuff rather than having Theon MIA for a couple of years, which... OMG, I hope they aren't too graphic!
        Speaking of, I noticed (current episode observation linked to a book spoiler for future GOT event!)
        Spoiler:
        The insignia on Roose Bolton's jerkin this week is the same contraption Theon is shown on in the trailers. I gather from some of the reviews that they don't immediately reveal whose clutches Theon has fallen into, but copying that insignia is a nice little easter egg.


        Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
        Tyrion never disputes that Tywin had the prerogative to serve Joffrey himself (bolder would have been to call him out on not still being out there battling Robb Stark). But Tyrion raises the point that Jaime disclaimed his right to inherit Casterly Rock by taking up his cloak, so he wouldn't be the "rightful" heir at that point. Of all the things Tyrion could ask for "not being screwed out of what would be his without any ambiguity if he were but two feet taller" doesn't seem all that unfair to me
        Exactly right. If Tyrion was anyone other than a dwarf, he would have been the acknowledged heir to Casterly Rock twenty years earlier! (Based on Joffrey's apparent age and the fact that Jaime became King's Guard when Cersei became Queen.)

        Originally posted by galathea View Post
        By the way, I was a tad confused that Ghost joined Mormont and his men instead of following Jon. Is that from the books?
        I don't remember. I vaguely remember Ghost wandering off 'hunting' a lot and think(?)
        Spoiler:
        Jon may have chased Ghost off at some point, telling him to return to the Wall. I think. I'm not certain. But
        if that's the case then I can easily see the show thinking "close enough!"

        Regardless, it was great to see Ghost again.

        Now, I want to see wooly mammoths! Please show, at least one mammoth!

        Originally posted by galathea View Post
        and I am sad that they apparently skipped that.
        Right now, I'm not yet assuming that they have. I think for various and sundry reasons it's highly possible that they simply relocated it in the timeline. It would lower production costs if they put their budget eggs in one basket, so to speak. After all
        Spoiler:
        they went to the trouble to have Sam actually discover the dragon glass last season, so it's reasonable to expect that it's Chekov's dragon glass
        and (future plot spoiler!(
        Spoiler:
        Perhaps they're rolling it into a future event that's scheduled to happen in a few episodes.
        Last edited by shipperx; 04-04-13, 07:40 PM.
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        • #19
          I'd also like to defend Tywin slightly that his main objections to Tyrion don't ultimately seem to be that he's a dwarf -- at least not going by that scene. Yes, he's clearly ashamed/embarrassed by what he thinks Tyrion's stature says about the Lion, but the bottom line of his vow to stand against man and gods is that Casterly Rock not be turned into his whorehouse. He has a way bigger problem with Tyrion as wenching and wining his way through life, I think. Which is... valid?

          A friend showed me something so utterly hilarious I had to share it here -- it is the entire episode if it were to have taken place on Facebook. Try not to spit drink or pee yourselves!
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          • #20
            Perhaps, but I still have issues with it based on a few things.

            1) Tyrion isn't 'allowed' to marry (really. I mean, he did but that was done away with quite quickly, and you can tell from elsewhere in the series that arranged marriages were the expected) and Tywin in all these years has never sought to arrange one for Tyrion. Given the societal structure of 'ladies' not (at least officially) engaging in such activities, was Tyrion supposed to remain celebate throughout all these years (28+ in the books, 42 based on Dinklage's age, who knows how old show!Tyrion is supposed to be.)

            2) He is a dwarf and there is that underlying insecurity and fear of not being found to be physically attractive and of being rejected sexually. Whores... are safe.

            3) Tywin really, REALLY did a number on his head with the deal with Tysha. Tyrion fell tip over teakettle in love with the innocent peasant girl that he crossed paths with and married. He was young and naive and truly believed that she'd fallen in love with him. Considering the dirth of love in his life, that was a huge deal to him. Then Jaime tells her that she's a prostitute followed by Tywin taking her out and having her gangraped in front of Tyrion and paid for it to "show" Tyrion that she was a prostitute. So if Tyrion has some strange hang-up regarding prostitutes, I consider Tywin as having had a significant role in creating it.
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