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5.01 "The Wars to Come" episode discussion thread

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  • 5.01 "The Wars to Come" episode discussion thread

    And we are back! What did you guys think of the season 5 premiere? Personally I enjoyed it, even if (like all GoT season premieres) it was not the most exciting episode. However, it set up several storylines nicely and it looks like some characters' storylines are gonna be fasttracked, which I actually don't mind because IMO books 4 and 5 have lots of stuff in them which was a chore for me to read so if D&D decided to cut some of the more boring parts, then I'm all for it. D&D have said in various interviews prior to this season that there would be a big departure from the books this year, even more so than in season 4. So even as a book reader I don't know what to expect this season. I just hope that D&D do the characters justice and don't assassinate them like they did last season (yes I'm still bitter about Jaime raping Cersei!!!). However, from what I have seen so far I think season 5 is off to a good start.

    I loved that the season opened with Maggy The Frog and the prophecy! And the show's first ever flashback! I wasn't sure D&D were going to include the prophecy so that was a positive surprise right at the start. The prophecy is important for Cersei's characterisation though so it made sense to include it. We learned stuff that we already knew (Cersei wouldn't marry Rhaegar but Robert, she wouldn't have children with Robert but Robert would have lots of illegitimate children and Cersei would have 3 with Jaime). Also, about another (queen?) coming along that is younger and more beautiful who will cast Cersei down (which could apply to either Margaery or Dany or even Sansa). However, we also learned stuff that we didn't know: "gold will be their crowns and gold their shrouds", meaning that all of Cersei's children will become king or queen (unless "gold" only refers to Cersei's children's hair) and that they will all die. Joffrey is already dead so will the show kill off Thommen and Myrcella this (or next) season? However, I was a bit disappointed that (book spoiler)
    Spoiler:
    they left out the part about the valonqar, considering how much Cersei is obsessing over it in the books. But maybe we haven't seen the full prophecy on the show yet? Maybe we will get another flashback later on in the season.
    I have to congratulate the casting department, that young actress was just brilliant as young Cersei, she had the same kind of smugness and entitlement as adult Cersei.

    Understandably, Cersei was not having the best episode. Upset over losing her father, mad with rage at one brother for murdering said father and very angry at her other brother/lover for helping Tyrion escape and thus making the murder possible. She is also not happy about Margaery who will certainly try to get her hands of Thommen and influence him just as much, if not more, as she did with Joffrey. And then there is cousin Lancel who has recently converted to an extreme religion and is now all pious. I have to be honest, I at first did not recognise Lancel, he looked so different, I was convinced that they had recast the role. But apparently it's the same actor. I'm sure having sex with Lancel and involving him in Robert's murder will come to bite Cersei in the ass, especially now that Lancel has discovered his faith. I also thought that it was interesting that as soon as Tywin Lannister was dead, the Sparrows dared to enter and stay in King's Landing. Jaime is right, the Lannister's position of power is rather rocky right now. I cannot wait to see how this storyline unfolds.

    Yay for Tyrion and Varys being travel buddies! Although poor Tyrion, being stuck in that crate for what must have been days, if not weeks. As predicted at the end of last season, Tyrion is understandably in a rather angsty mood and tries to drown his sorrows with wine. I gotta say, I'm happy that the writers fasttracked Tyrion's storyline and already had Varys tell him in the season premiere of his allegiance to Dany and that they were on their way to meet her. I disliked Tyrion's storyline in books 4 and 5 and I'm glad that the writers decided to cut a huge junk of it and streamlined it. If this means that he and Dany are going to meet up sooner, I'm all for it.

    Dany was also not having the best time (apart from cuddling with Daario, that is ). The Sons of Harpy were established as a serious threat and her dragon babies didn't want anything to do with her. But then again what did you expect, Dany? I get that they are too dangerous and need to be locked up but does it have to be in such a dark hole? And Dany apparently never visited them. Of course the dragons are going to be pissed. Well at least this meant that we got some gorgeous dragon CGI. That must have cost them quite a bundle. Also, maybe Daario is right, maybe Dany should allow them to re-open the fighting pits. She could enforce new rules so that the fights aren't to the death or something like that. Maybe that would help in stopping those horrible Sons of Harpy attacks.

    Jon Snow is growing more and more into a fine leader. I loved how he handled both Stannis and Mance and treated them both with equal respect. And of course his mercy killing of Mance was great, I love that he did that, even if it pissed Stannis and Melisandre off. And poor Shireen was forced to watch a man being burned alive! I did not like Melisandre putting the moves on Jon Snow, she'd better keep her hands to herself. I have a feeling this season will be even better Jon Snow-wise than last season. I also didn't mind (book spoiler)
    Spoiler:
    that they decided to definitely kill off Mance, unlike in the books. This show has way too many characters already so I get why D&D did that. Plus I heard that the actor wanted out.


    I get Stannis' reasoning of wanting to include the wildlings in his army but proved by Mance's stubbornness and pride that's not going to be so easy. Maybe Tormund will have a role to play in this now that Mance is dead. However, I have to say the idea of Stannis and his army attacking Winterfell and killing the Boltons sounds very appealing. I really hope that both Roose and Ramsay Bolton will come to a gruesome end this season. That will be just as satisfying to me as when Joffrey died.

    Robin Arryn fighting like a girl (or "like a girl with palsy" as Lord Royce put it) provided some nice comic relief. I loved how bored Sansa looked and that she is becoming a more confident and strong young woman. However, I'm very wary about Littlefinger's plans for Sansa and especially where he is taking her. Apparently, her storyline will be completely different from the books this season and I have read some spoilers that make me very anxious. I have a feeling that this is going to be one change from the books that I won't like. But we will see how it goes.

    I love Brienne but she really needs to stop being so hard on poor Pod! Yes he may not be an ideal squire but give him time to learn, Brienne. I wonder whether Sansa (if Brienne and Pod ever find her) will be more amenable to being protected by Brienne than Arya was. Speaking of Arya, I really missed her in this season premiere! But judging from the title of episode 5.02, she will have a role to play in next week's episode.

    So what did you make of this season premiere? Are you happy that the show is back?

  • #2
    I'm kind of glad they are making the show stand very much on its own with plot changes from the books. Not that I didn't enjoy the books as they were, meandering though they might be, but at least with changes, I can judge the show as its own project and not feel like I already know what's going to happen next.

    Lancel cracked me up, I saw him and the "House" viewer in me said "... Chase?" A good way to set up the Sparrows, having him come back as this very sharp contrast of himself.

    Daario is right, though, Dany's writ as a sovereign only runs as far as her dragons fly. They are the basis of her power and authority, and now she doesn't have them. She seemed to suddenly have the epiphany that while she may be immune to the fire, she's certainly not immune to tooth or claw.

    The problem I have with this whole "bring Tyrion to help Dany" plot -- both in show and book, actually -- is that there is absolutely no reason at all why Daenarys would, could, or should trust Tyrion as an ally just because he killed Tywin. She threw aside Jorah with barely a thought when he had braved exposure and death in the desert with her long after his days informing on her; why would she trust a Lannister? Especially the infamous "Imp" of whom I'm sure her Selmy has no shortage of bad stories? That said, Tyrion and Varys as road trip buddies is a good set up, and is probably better than (book spoiler)
    Spoiler:
    the 74 new characters introduced for that same basic storyline in the books.


    I kinda think Mance should have bent the knee, even though his ethos is pretty close to mine. Jon Snow's points were all totally valid. Coming that far to just stand proud and be burned to death while all the free folk get (best case) sent back north of the wall for Winter is a waste of everybody's time and blood. "What I do now I do for the safety of the free folk from the coming winter" or something. Maybe any Thenns that are still around wouldn't get it, but Tormund might, or any of them that actually knew the Walkers were real and were coming.
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    • #3
      They had to burn Mance if the show proceeds as the book does. (book spoiler)
      Spoiler:
      They can't have the Wildlings all leave to follow Stannis, because they play a key role in the breakdown of the Night's Watch. In the books GRRM solved that problem with a glamour. I don't think they'll go that route on the show, though it remains possible (Rattleshirt (?) was standing next to Tormund at the auto da fe). By burning Mance, Stannis made certain that the Wildlings will never follow him. Events in the North can therefore proceed on track.


      However, we also learned stuff that we didn't know: "gold will be their crowns and gold their shrouds"
      That's in the books too.

      I don't mind if they cut material from AFFC and ADWD; I thought there was lots of filler there. However, it's important that they cut the right stuff and don't add weird twists (like some of the Sansa rumors I've seen).
      Last edited by Cori; 14-04-15, 07:04 AM. Reason: Added spoiler tags for book spoilers!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Sophist View Post
        That's in the books too.
        Yes I know, I meant something new to the TV show.

        Guys, please remember to always use spoiler tags for book spoilers in these episode discussion threads so that the Unsullied (watchers of the TV show who haven't read the books) are not spoiled by accident. Thank you!

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        • #5
          As much as I can remember,
          Spoiler:
          Mance didn't die. His mind was removed in another body. Melisandra makes a spell and removes his mind . Or she just switches his body. But Mance is still alive.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by _Buffy_ View Post
            As much as I can remember,
            Spoiler:
            Mance didn't die. His mind was removed in another body. Melisandra makes a spell and removes his mind . Or she just switches his body. But Mance is still alive.
            Spoiler:
            She didn't do anything to his mind or his body, she just used a glamour to make Mance appear like Rattleshirt, and Rattleshirt appear like Mance.


            - - - Updated - - -

            Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
            Daario is right, though, Dany's writ as a sovereign only runs as far as her dragons fly. They are the basis of her power and authority, and now she doesn't have them. She seemed to suddenly have the epiphany that while she may be immune to the fire, she's certainly not immune to tooth or claw.
            Dany is not immune to fire. GRRM has said that Drogo's funeral pire was a one-time magical event. She certainly
            Spoiler:
            gets quite a few burns and blisters from Drogon's fire in the Dragonpit in ADWD.
            At least that's how it's in the books - in the show, who the hell knows? They've changed so much already and seem to be changing even more now, that the show should really be seen as "inspired by George R. R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire" rather than "based on".

            And she would not be surprised by being vulnerable to injuries - I thought she was surprised that they were aggressive to her, their "mother. (For the record, in the books she seems to visit them more often, and I don't remember them being aggressive to her.)

            On another note, thank the gods that they have finally revealed the dragons' names on the show! Until the season 4 finale, they were just "dragons", and then they finally named Drogon, now they've finally had Dany utter Viserion's and Rhaegal's name, too.
            You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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            • #7
              Varys and Tyrion are as great together as I expected. Varys is already a Dany supporter. I hope they are all goin to meet at last. I hope this means good things for Jorah, as he must have been the one who persuaded Varys that Dany was the best person to take the throne.

              Still hate Daario and Dany. He's okay I guess, but she can do so much better. I don't understand why she trusts him so much, he seems like someone who's always looking for the next sure thing. Those poor dragons, kept in chains in the dark. She frees slaves then enslaves her dragons. They should be angry at her and she should feel guilty.

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