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  • 4.01 "Two Swords" episode discussion thread

    So one of my favourite TV shows is back! What did everyone think of the season 4 premiere? While it was not the most exciting episode, it did a good job reintroducing us to the characters and it nicely set up the upcoming storylines. Most of all I just squeed throughout the episode because it feels so good to have these characters and this fascinating universe back.

    The show reminded us in the very first scene (no, even before that, in the previously section when it showed us Ned Stark's execution again) that it likes to torture its viewers. Seeing Tywin Lannister take Ned Stark's beloved sword Ice and melting it down while The Rains of Castamere was playing in the background felt like a giant "f*ck you" to the Starks from the Lannisters. And the remaining Starks really do not have it easy, especially Sansa who is cleary devastated by grief. Her line to Tyrion about her going to the godswood not to pray but because nobody talked to her there made me feel so sad for her. Luckily, things were looking up a bit in the end with Ser Dontos' reappearance and him giving her the necklace. (Book 3 spoiler!)
    Spoiler:
    Family heirloom, my ass! I'm pretty sure this necklace will turn out to be the equivalent of the book's hairnet that Sansa wore to the wedding. I cannot wait to see everything that happens at the wedding, especially when it comes to Sansa's storyline.


    Arya was still stuck with the Hound but he took good enough care of her. Part of me is horrified by the killer Arya has turned into (seeing her quote Polliver's death speech to Lommy back at Polliver was certainly creepy) but part of me was all "hell yeah" that she got revenge on someone else on her list. And the last scene with her finally having her own horse and having gotten Needle back made me smile and feel good for her.

    Poor Jaime! I don't think that's quite the return to King's Landing he had in mind. First his father, then his sister and then his nephew/son ridicule and reject him. I was glad to see Jaime still confiding in Brienne but I wish we had gotten a scene between Jaime and Tyrion because I have always enjoyed their brotherly bond. I'm also glad that Jaime didn't go along with Tywin's plans for him but chose to remain with the Kingsguard. I thought that Cersei was being very unfair to Jaime when she blamed him for getting back home too late. Poor Jaime got captured, tortured and his hand cut off and that's the best his family can come up with? But then again, the Lannisters were never known for being warm and fuzzy.

    I really like the actors that they cast for Prince Oberyn Martell of Dorne and for Ellaria Sand! I liked that we first saw Prince Oberyn in a whorehouse because that seems to be very fitting for a character known for his vast sexual appetite when it comes to both men and women. I also liked that Prince Oberyn pretty much told Tyrion to his face how much he hates and mistrusts the Lannisters. That's gonna be a fun wedding, not tense at all!

    I'm also very pleased that they recast Daario Naharis with the cute guy from Nashville. He already has much better chemistry with Dany than the previous actor ever did. And wow the dragons have gotten big and dangerous, not even Dany can handle/tame them anymore.

    Olenna Tyrell's reaction to Brienne was priceless! I also loved how the Queen of Thorns just threw all the necklaces away that she deemed unworthy. It was also nice to have a scene between Brienne and Margaery and to hear them talk about Renly.

    Hearing Jon Snow talk about Robb was very moving and sad. I liked it a lot how Jon Snow stood up for himself to the Night's Watch, this was a snarkier and wittier version of Jon Snow, I definitely approve. I loved it when he told the ex-commander of King's Landing's city watch that he must not have been very good at his job. You go, Jon Snow!

    What did you guys think of the season 4 premiere? Are you as psyched as I am that Game of Thrones is back?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Cori View Post
    I'm also very pleased that they recast Daario Naharis with the cute guy from Nashville.
    YES. I hate recasts but if they must be done I am glad it is with someone I like. I always liked the Nashville eps with him. He's a good looking guy, for sure, too. I didn't realize it was recast with him though. I mean, I knew there was a recast and everything but even when I saw the pictures with him I didn't realize who it was until I saw the ep.

    Great ep! I got teary-eyed during all the Sansa scenes. The girl gets a lot of fandom hate but I just feel for her. And Ser Dontos! As soon as we saw him in the previously on segment I just knew he would meet with Sansa in the godswood. I honestly didn't think he would circulate back in the show even if he did have a role to play in the books. Same for Polliver. And Janos Slynt. It's so great that they can circle back to these characters we haven't seen for--literally--seasons. Of course, I watched it with my family and I don't think they quite realized who these characters were. This is where being a book reader comes in handy, I think. After reading them I was able to differentiate between the characters better.

    Cersei is such a bitch. That's not news. But sheesh. Blaming Jamie like that. SMH. And Tywin with his subtle glee at melting down Ice. But Charles Dance is an amazing actor. He truly commands the room with each scene he is in. And Shay? That girl is playing with fire. She should really be more understanding of Tyrion's predicament. He's trying to keep her safe and he hasn't even attempted to consummate his marriage so she needs to reign in what she feels is her entitlement to him.

    So great to see Maester Aemon again too. I love that he got the last word. "I grew up in King's Landing."

    Oh, Arya. In a sense The Hound is nurturing her thirst for violence. But he's a definite protector as well. It such an odd and strangely sweet relationship. And so very close to the books.

    And oh! The Dreadfort has made its way to the opening credits. There's gonna be some brutal times for someone there! Yikes.

    Also, I loved that cut from that ridiculous statue of Joffery to a shot of him standing all regal and pompous. Man, that actor is fantastic. You have no choice but to hate Joffrey at ALL TIMES.

    Oh damn, everything is so exciting. All these threads from the books are being woven back in and I can see where things are headed and it is amazing and I can't wait for more and I want it now and I don't wanna wait!!!
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    • #3
      I'm also not a fan of re-casts. It always kind of takes me out of the story. Luckily Daario Naharis isn't one of the major roles so it didn't bother me that much. If they had to re-cast one of the main characters I think I'd have a much harder time with it.

      I liked this episode overall. I thought it was a strong-start to the season. I didn't do a re-watch before watching it so I appreciated the extensive recap.

      I liked Aemon and even though he's old he seemed to be the most sensible of the bunch. Jon Snow was trying to tell them there were about to be invaded and all they could focus on was that they wanted to execute him instead of preparing for the impeding invasion.

      So far I like Oberyn Martell. I had to look-up the family tree though because I always lose track as to how everyone is related to one another - his sister was married to Dany's older brother.

      Arya/the Hound is such an odd relationship. He does seem to be protecting her because those guys who had done horrible things to her - but at the same time he is holding her captive and planning on trying to sell her off to a family member for money so technically he did kidnap her and wants ransom money.

      Of the Lannisers I've always liked Tyrion the best. He's not as horrible as a lot of the other characters on the show and he's entertaining. He seems to actually care somewhat about Sansa and even though it was a political marriage that neither of them wanted he did seem to be trying to help her. I'm not really sure why Shae seems to be so jealous though - it's pretty clear there's nothing romantic going on so she seemed to be just causing problems and I think will get herself into trouble because obviously the woman saw her and went to tattle to Cersei. Jamie was also pretty good in this episode - he has no interest in going to Casterly Rock but it seems like his entire family was mad at him because he had been taken prisoner and his hand had been chopped off and didn't even care about what all he'd been through.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jenni Lou View Post
        YES. I hate recasts but if they must be done I am glad it is with someone I like. I always liked the Nashville eps with him. He's a good looking guy, for sure, too. I didn't realize it was recast with him though. I mean, I knew there was a recast and everything but even when I saw the pictures with him I didn't realize who it was until I saw the ep.
        Yeah I usually hate recasts as well but since I never liked the previous Daario actor I'm relieved that the executive producers recast the role with such a hot guy.

        Great ep! I got teary-eyed during all the Sansa scenes. The girl gets a lot of fandom hate but I just feel for her. And Ser Dontos! As soon as we saw him in the previously on segment I just knew he would meet with Sansa in the godswood. I honestly didn't think he would circulate back in the show even if he did have a role to play in the books.
        I don't get the Sansa hate. I mean, during book/season 1 she sometimes annoyed me as well with her blind adoration of Joffrey but so much has happened since then and she has been through so much that I cannot help feel and root for her. I'm really curious as to (huge book 3 spoiler!)
        Spoiler:
        how the escape will be shown on screen. Will Ser Dontos tell Sansa beforehand? Will he only tell her during the night itself? I cannot wait to see these scenes, they will be hightlights for me this season along with what else happens that night.


        And Shay? That girl is playing with fire. She should really be more understanding of Tyrion's predicament. He's trying to keep her safe and he hasn't even attempted to consummate his marriage so she needs to reign in what she feels is her entitlement to him.
        Shae gets more and more annoying by the episode. That's probably intentional on the writers' part though.

        So great to see Maester Aemon again too. I love that he got the last word. "I grew up in King's Landing."
        Yes I loved that too. Also, I love that Maester Aemon as the oldest guy on the Night's Watch seems to be one of the least conservative and narrow-minded, unlike Janos Slynt.

        Oh, Arya. In a sense The Hound is nurturing her thirst for violence. But he's a definite protector as well. It such an odd and strangely sweet relationship. And so very close to the books.
        Very well put and I completely agree!

        And oh! The Dreadfort has made its way to the opening credits. There's gonna be some brutal times for someone there! Yikes.
        I shuddered when I saw the Dreadfort in the opening credits.

        Also, I loved that cut from that ridiculous statue of Joffery to a shot of him standing all regal and pompous. Man, that actor is fantastic. You have no choice but to hate Joffrey at ALL TIMES.
        I know right? Joffrey is so in love with himself, it's absolutely ridiculous!

        Oh damn, everything is so exciting. All these threads from the books are being woven back in and I can see where things are headed and it is amazing and I can't wait for more and I want it now and I don't wanna wait!!!
        Me too!!! Especially since the promo for episode 4.02 looks absolutely awesome!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cori View Post
          So one of my favourite TV shows is back! What did everyone think of the season 4 premiere? While it was not the most exciting episode, it did a good job reintroducing us to the characters and it nicely set up the upcoming storylines. Most of all I just squeed throughout the episode because it feels so good to have these characters and this fascinating universe back.

          The show reminded us in the very first scene (no, even before that, in the previously section when it showed us Ned Stark's execution again) that it likes to torture its viewers. Seeing Tywin Lannister take Ned Stark's beloved sword Ice and melting it down while The Rains of Castamere was playing in the background felt like a giant "f*ck you" to the Starks from the Lannisters. And the remaining Starks really do not have it easy, especially Sansa who is cleary devastated by grief. Her line to Tyrion about her going to the godswood not to pray but because nobody talked to her there made me feel so sad for her. Luckily, things were looking up a bit in the end with Ser Dontos' reappearance and him giving her the necklace. (Book 3 spoiler!)
          Spoiler:
          Family heirloom, my ass! I'm pretty sure this necklace will turn out to be the equivalent of the book's hairnet that Sansa wore to the wedding. I cannot wait to see everything that happens at the wedding, especially when it comes to Sansa's storyline.


          Arya was still stuck with the Hound but he took good enough care of her. Part of me is horrified by the killer Arya has turned into (seeing her quote Polliver's death speech to Lommy back at Polliver was certainly creepy) but part of me was all "hell yeah" that she got revenge on someone else on her list. And the last scene with her finally having her own horse and having gotten Needle back made me smile and feel good for her.

          Poor Jaime! I don't think that's quite the return to King's Landing he had in mind. First his father, then his sister and then his nephew/son ridicule and reject him. I was glad to see Jaime still confiding in Brienne but I wish we had gotten a scene between Jaime and Tyrion because I have always enjoyed their brotherly bond. I'm also glad that Jaime didn't go along with Tywin's plans for him but chose to remain with the Kingsguard. I thought that Cersei was being very unfair to Jaime when she blamed him for getting back home too late. Poor Jaime got captured, tortured and his hand cut off and that's the best his family can come up with? But then again, the Lannisters were never known for being warm and fuzzy.

          I really like the actors that they cast for Prince Oberyn Martell of Dorne and for Ellaria Sand! I liked that we first saw Prince Oberyn in a whorehouse because that seems to be very fitting for a character known for his vast sexual appetite when it comes to both men and women. I also liked that Prince Oberyn pretty much told Tyrion to his face how much he hates and mistrusts the Lannisters. That's gonna be a fun wedding, not tense at all!

          I'm also very pleased that they recast Daario Naharis with the cute guy from Nashville. He already has much better chemistry with Dany than the previous actor ever did. And wow the dragons have gotten big and dangerous, not even Dany can handle/tame them anymore.

          Olenna Tyrell's reaction to Brienne was priceless! I also loved how the Queen of Thorns just threw all the necklaces away that she deemed unworthy. It was also nice to have a scene between Brienne and Margaery and to hear them talk about Renly.

          Hearing Jon Snow talk about Robb was very moving and sad. I liked it a lot how Jon Snow stood up for himself to the Night's Watch, this was a snarkier and wittier version of Jon Snow, I definitely approve. I loved it when he told the ex-commander of King's Landing's city watch that he must not have been very good at his job. You go, Jon Snow!

          What did you guys think of the season 4 premiere? Are you as psyched as I am that Game of Thrones is back?
          One thing I really loved with this episode was the theme of utter corruption and how that corruption is passed on from generation to generation - how all these people will do and accept anything in their pursuit of ultimate power. Especially great how they showed it with the Tyrell women and Tywin looking on with all their disgust at Joffrey. We see this theme again with the corruption on the counterpart to Joffrey with Ramsay and Lord Bolton. And the added touch of showing the contrast in bastard sons with Ramsay and Jon Snow was excellent as was showing how Jon Snow felt jealous of the legitimate son Robb when now his brother and his family have been killed. Joffrey for all his I am the King, never had any real claim to the kingship.

          I really need to go a read this novel again - so many important details that I have forgotten as I had to read all the novels at once.
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            More happy whores in the first ten minutes. Just when I want to love this show, it lets me down with this nonsense. I guess I should be happy that the actors have paid work.

            Oh yes, Michael Huisman is a definite improvement. I'm even liking this new Jon Snow, he seems stronger and angrier. Combination of being with the Wildings and his brothers death I expect, and I like it.

            Some great duets as usual, Jaime/Brienne, Sansa/The Fool, Arya/The Hound, some fun dialogue, and Sansa/The Fool was quite moving.

            Best dialogue -
            The Hound 'Course you named your sword.' *eye roll
            Arya 'Lots of people name their swords.'
            The Hound 'Lots of ****s' (c u next tuesday)

            I adore him, I cannot help it (as always, I hope he survives)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Priceless View Post
              More happy whores in the first ten minutes. Just when I want to love this show, it lets me down with this nonsense. I guess I should be happy that the actors have paid work.
              I'm totally with you on this. It's hard to brush aside but I tell myself that it is their act to keep their customers. There is possibly something to be said about the different societal structure or how it represents part of our own, but I'm not good at social/political analysis.

              I love Jaime/Brienne too.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                I'm totally with you on this. It's hard to brush aside but I tell myself that it is their act to keep their customers. There is possibly something to be said about the different societal structure or how it represents part of our own, but I'm not good at social/political analysis.

                I love Jaime/Brienne too.
                Yes, that's how I try to think of it. These women have to put on an act to keep the customers happy so they get paid. I'd just wish, maybe once a season, it was acknowledged that most women who go into prostitution are coerced and are only there for the money and are not actually enjoying themselves. The happy whore is a trope I really hate, and is the most fantastical thing in this fantasy show

                I'm not a particular fan of Jaime or Brienne, but they are better together. Cersei accused Brienne of loving Jaime, but I'm not sure if she just meant Brienne loved him for rescuing her, or if she meant romantic love. Poor Brienne if she is romantically in love with Jaime, because I can only see disappointment in her future.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I really like Jaime, he Tyrion and Arya are probably my faves. Jaime I came to like more from the Brienne/bear/hand storyline onwards, whereas the other two were favourites from the first season. Have you seen the show before or is this your first watch?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                    I really like Jaime, he Tyrion and Arya are probably my faves. Jaime I came to like more from the Brienne/bear/hand storyline onwards, whereas the other two were favourites from the first season. Have you seen the show before or is this your first watch?
                    I watched the whole of the first season, then a few odd episodes of seasons two, three and four. I haven't seen any of seasons five onwards. I have a vague idea of what happens because everyone talks about it and it's all over social media, but I'm sure I've forgotten a lot of it.

                    My favourite Lannister is Tywin. He's the complete patriarch, pulling the families strings. He's wise in his own way, but so dominating he lacks any charm or likeability. I think Charles Dance is probably the best actor on the show and that also draws me to his character.

                    I want to like Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei because they are incredibly interesting characters, and I do like them, I just don't love them. Cersei has been pretty much one note throughout the first four seasons, she's a bitter bitch who hasn't changed, or perhaps she's just become bitchier. Tyrion won me over at Blackwater, then he's back in the brothel and back to his vapid self as he was in season one. I'm hopeful this trial and Shay's duplicity, will make a bigger and better change in him and I'll feel more for him. Jaime has changed a little, which I like. His friendship with Brienne, the loss of his hand, Joffrey's death, his oath taking etc. have all changed him, but I can't say I love the character. That might all change in later seasons, I don't know.

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