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3.10 "Mhysa" episode discussion thread

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  • 3.10 "Mhysa" episode discussion thread

    As far as season finales go, this was not the best or most exciting one IMO. There were parts in it that felt slow and choppy and other parts that were missing IMO. After last week's horror and tragedy, I get that the GoT creators wanted to slow down things a bit and also include some positive bits (such as both Jon and Sam returning to Castle Black, Dany's moment of triumph at the end, Yara standing up to her father and setting sail to save Theon, Davos helping Gendry escape and Melisandra siding with Davos for once, etc.) but to me this episode felt more like a regular episode and not a season finale. Maybe it's also due to the fact that for the first time they are splitting one book into two seasons, I don't know.

    As much as I loved Dany's moment triumph at the end (accompanied by that fantastic epic music! ) and liked that the season ended on such a hopeful note with that great last shot, I wish they had included one or two scenes right before Dany's scene or afterwards, namely (book 3 huge spoilers for upcoming events!!!)
    Spoiler:
    don't click if you haven't read the books!
    Spoiler:
    the Lady Stoneheart reveal (which comes later in the book but which they could have moved up for dramatic effect and to end the season with a real cliffhanger) and/or Sansa's escape from King's Landing. I so wanted this season to end on a positive note for Sansa because she has been through so much but alas that was not the case. I knew Joffrey's wedding wouldn't happen this season but I expected to see at least one of the scenes I mentioned above so on that front I'm a bit disappointed. Now they will need to cram all this into season 4.


    I was also a bit disappointed that we got so many Sam and Gilly and Bran scenes (which I'm not a huge fan of, to put it mildly) but only got a hint of the Jaime and Cersei scene. This scene was rather ambiguous. At first Cersei seemed just shocked and overwhelmed to see Jaime but when she saw the stump she looked disgusted and he, seeing her look, seemed to be ashamed and embarrassed. I really wish we had at least gotten one sentence out of Cersei. It's gonna be very interesting to see next season how Cersei will deal (or not) with Jaime no longer being the strong, golden warrior but a very changed man who has to cope with his disability. I found it a bit weird that Jaime arrived in King's Landing that early. Does that mean that he will (book 3 huge spoilers for upcoming events!!!)
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:
    attend Joffrey's wedding and witness what happens to his son? And will that change the storyline between Jaime and Tyrion?


    Oh Arya, you keep breaking my heart! The look on Maisie Williams' face when she saw Grey Wind's head sewed on Robb's body (and thanks for that visual, GoT creators! I really could have done without it, for once I wish they didn't follow the book that closely) was just devastating! I can understand why Arya does the things she does but I'm not a big fan of the path she is on. However, I do love how protective the Hound has become of her and that he didn't reprimand her for killing that Frey soldier but only for not telling him first. That's the Hound for you!

    Joffrey remains a despicable spoilt little brat but he actually surprised me by talking back to Tywin the way he did (see quote below). Of course Tywin then put him in his place again but it seems to get harder for him to do so. The following exchange between Joffrey and Tywin was just brilliant:

    Joffrey: I am the king. I will punish you.
    Tywin. Any man who must say, "I am the king," is no true king. I'll make sure you understand that when I've won your war for you.
    Joffrey: My father won the real war. He killed Prince Rhaegar. He took the crown while you hid under Casterly Rock.
    Tywin: The king is tired. See him to his chambers.




    I also loved Tyrion threatening Joffrey in a low, menacing voice. I think it's great how the show plays up the relationship between Cersei and Tyrion, their scene together in this season finale was excellent again. It's nice to see Cersei being vulnerable again (confessing that without her children she would have committed suicide a long time ago), I like that they make her more a grey area character on the show. The scene where Tywin told Tyrion that he wanted to drown him when he was a baby but didn't because Tyrion was a Lannister was very painful to watch. Poor Tyrion, no wonder he hates his father so much!

    Speaking of horrible fathers: Balon Greyjoy certainly falls into that category as well. Balon is right when he calls Theon a foolish boy but geez he is still his son. I'm glad that Yara stood up to her father and set sail to try to get her little brother back. I really could have done without the whole Ramsay eating a sausage scene. At least they did not show the penis in the box. And I guess we finally got confirmation what most of the audience has figured out a long time ago: that the guy torturing Theon was indeed Ramsay Snow, Roose Bolton's bastard. I think they should have revealed this sooner, at this point it felt more like an afterthought.

    Jon and Ygritte keep breaking my heart! I actually teared up a bit during their scene, Ygritte looked so devastated at the end. I did not expect her to shoot him that many times, he is lucky that he got out alive and made it to Castle Black. This episode could also have been a bit more gripping and exciting if (book 3 huge spoiler for upcoming events!)
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:
    we had seen the beginning of the wildlings' attack on Castle Black, that would have been a nice cliffhanger as well.


    So on the whole this season finale did not completely satisfy me. There were things that I wished we got to see this season but didn't and now we have to wait a year for season 4. All in all I can say though that I thought season 3 was an excellent season, probably my favourite so far. I cannot wait to rewatch the whole season as soon as the DVDs come out (whenever that will be).

  • #2
    I was also expecting that epilogue scene to be relocated, Cori. I'm surprised that they didn't do it. I think it would have made a stronger ending.

    It was a low key finale, though. Still, some nice scenes in there. Poor Arya and poor Sansa, though. At least Bran doesn't know.

    And go Yara (Asha in the books). I liked her in the books and so look forward to her getting a bit more screen time in the future.
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    • #3
      I don't know if I've heard it mentioned in any of the show or in the first two books, but is Bran's infirmity such that he... does not provide the Stark line any opportunity for patrilineal succession? Is it on Rickon alone now for that name to go on? Sure the blood can go on through Sansa and Arya, but we know enough to know that a trueborn child would have their husbands' name and a bastard would be another Snow (or wherever they happened to download the kid, I guess? Not clear on how that works).

      I think the big theft of this episode was that we didn't get to have a) the scene of Sansa learning or b) Sophie Turner having a chance to do more than cry silently over the Red Wedding. She and we both deserved more. I blame Show and GRRM equally I guess. My personal fanon I'm going with right now is that Varys, or perhaps Margaery, or someone with some sense of tact and compassion got to tell her, and that it wasn't that horrible little shit Joffrey or one of his toads. Even Cersei would have been better, FFS.

      Loved every adult Lannister present in the Small Council being utterly embarrassed by Joffrey's... existence, frankly.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
        I don't know if I've heard it mentioned in any of the show or in the first two books, but is Bran's infirmity such that he... does not provide the Stark line any opportunity for patrilineal succession?
        It may have been fleetingly mentioned somewhere (I think perhaps in the Ned/Arya 'but that's not me' convo?) But it's largely been a non issue what with Robb being eldest and Bran having been assumed dead before Robb (which was when in the books Robb -- against Catelyn's counsel--made Jon his official heir). And Bran hasn't given it much thought because he's only about eleven years old in the books.
        Is it on Rickon alone now for that name to go on?
        Quite probably.
        My personal fanon I'm going with right now is that Varys, or perhaps Margaery, or someone with some sense of tact and compassion got to tell her, and that it wasn't that horrible little shit Joffrey or one of his toads.
        God I hope so. I'm fanwanking that Shae heard it belowstairs and told her. That would be best case scenario so I'll go with that.

        Margery would be a decent option too.
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        • #5
          Cori, I was underwhelmed by the final scene. It was in no way surprising or anything. Did anyone really doubt that a city full of slaves would be receptive to her? Quite frankly, after she told her dragon to fly, I expected
          Spoiler:
          that this would be where they would go and kill the child, as one did in the books.
          I thought that would be somewhat shocking and it would certainly setup a scenario in which perhaps these people she has just freed would be hesitant to trust her.

          As for
          Spoiler:
          Sansa leaving King's Landing or Lady Stoneheart, I did not even consider these to be possibilities. I think these will not occur until somewhere around episodes 8-10 of next season. In fact, it seems to me the Stoneheart scene might be THE final scene of the finale.


          Agree about Jamie/Cersei. There was so little of Jamie in general. However I found the scene quite evocative. Nothing was said other than a single name and yet so many emotions passed through the two of them. In the end, I was satisfied with where it left off for them. Clearly, things are not going to be the sunshine and roses the two of them were hoping for.

          I was expecting Arya's story to end [book spoiler]
          Spoiler:
          with her taking the ship to Braavos. Was it Braavos? Well, it was on those cities across the Narrow See anyway.
          But she did pull out her coin, so we'll get there!

          I really liked the episode. I was expecting it to be more subdued after the chaos of last week. The GoT finales always are. They serve as denouements to the season. A bridge to the next one. And we have a ton of story threads lined up for where we are going.

          Any scene wit Tywin is gold! Charles Dance has such a commanding presence. He's utterly fantastic. And Joffrey. UGH. What a depraved little shit. Kudos to Tyrion for once again shutting him down and protecting Sansa. You can sense how much he feels for her; he is constantly remarking about how she deserves none of this. And how right he is. But I have to say, Jack Gleeson is terrific as Joffery. Always has been. Just those gleeful grins and the childish whining he does. He really makes you hate him! Poor guy. He must get evil glares directed at him in his real life all the time.

          DAVOS! Always a treat. I could always use some more Salladhor Saan though. I miss that pirate! And I wonder if Gendry is getting set back on track to where he was in the books now that he out of Dragonstone.

          One thing I always wondered is why they changed Asha's name to Yara for the series. Or why they changed Vargo Hoat's to Locke, for that matter. Those are the only two characters I think they have changed the names for. Seems weird to me.

          So....Bran is going north of the wall in search of the 3-eyed raven. We all know that. But in this episode he seems to confirm to Sam that he believes he is the one to take on the white walkers. I was a little surprised by this because reading the books didn't give me such an explicit impression. Maybe I didn't read as closely in the Bran sections--in fact, I probably didn't, as they were never my faves--but I thought he was searching for the raven in order to find out his destiny....not that he knew his destiny already, if that makes sense.

          Melisandre made me laugh. "Davos bad. Kill him now." *burns scroll* "Nevermind. He be cool." Okay, magic lady chick. Nice skills you got there.

          Choppiest forum post ever! Deal with it.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Jenni Lou View Post
            One thing I always wondered is why they changed Asha's name to Yara for the series.
            Did they think Asha sounded too much like Osha and would be confusing, perhaps?

            I think my favourite scene of the finale was Sam ordering the Night's Watch men to carry Jon inside, gently - and having them snap to and obey. Sam has come a long, long way since he first stumbled into Castle Black, snivellling, and that scene really underscored how much he has grown.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Llywela View Post
              Did they think Asha sounded too much like Osha and would be confusing, perhaps?
              Good call. Could very well be. Still wonder why they changed Vargo Hoat though. Maybe they just didn't like the sound of it. :idk:

              Gonna agree on Sam. I've really enjoyed him the past few episodes. Having someone like Gilly depending on him seems to have improved his self-confidence and decreased his cowardice.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Jenni Lou View Post
                Gonna agree on Sam. I've really enjoyed him the past few episodes. Having someone like Gilly depending on him seems to have improved his self-confidence and decreased his cowardice.
                Also I guess killing the white walker must have helped on the self-confidence department.
                The scene with maester Aemon got me giggling. I bet whole Castle Black thinks that he's the father of Gilly's son, regardless his denials, wonder if it gives him more street cred.

                My favorite scene of the episode was Yara on the ship. Go Yara!
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                • #9
                  I'm not all that surprised that the scene with Jaime/Cersei was so brief.

                  Spoiler:
                  In the books Jaime didn't make it back to King's Landing at this point, so he's a bit early. I wonder what changes that's going to bring about.

                  In the books I cannot remember Brienne and Cersei ever sharing the same stage (so to speak). Jaime always dealt with one or the other. I don't remember (which isn't to say there wasn't one, just that I don't remember) a time and place where they were both around him at the same time (the Joffrey/Margery wedding celebration might be a place where that could happen.) I would really like to see a time where Cersei sees and comments on Brienne. Cersei and Brienne are very different types, and Cersei is the type who would give Brienne little respect. I think it would surprise Jaime how much Cersei's attitude towards someone like Brienne might bother him.

                  I do remember Jaime interacting with Loras alittle bit in the books. That could be interesting too.
                  Learning Experience: "...one of those things that says, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.”
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                  • #10
                    Guys, please can we remember to keep any references to book knowledge under spoiler tags - any comments about how certain events have played out differently on-screen than in the books, or comments about future events based on book knowledge should all be spoiler tagged and warned as such.

                    Shipperx, I've edited your post to add spoiler tags.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jenni Lou View Post
                      Cori, I was underwhelmed by the final scene. It was in no way surprising or anything. Did anyone really doubt that a city full of slaves would be receptive to her?
                      No it was not surprising in the slightest but it was a lovely and hopeful scene. Still, exactly because it was so unsurprising I expected another scene to come after Dany's scene which would be the cliffhanger and tide us over to season 4 more effectively.

                      Quite frankly, after she told her dragon to fly, I expected
                      Spoiler:
                      that this would be where they would go and kill the child, as one did in the books.
                      I thought that would be somewhat shocking and it would certainly setup a scenario in which perhaps these people she has just freed would be hesitant to trust her.
                      The thought crossed my mind as well. However,
                      Spoiler:
                      I think that only happens at the beginning of book 5 and maybe they didn't want to skip that far ahead in Dany's storyline. She still has to conquer Mereen after all.


                      One thing I always wondered is why they changed Asha's name to Yara for the series. Or why they changed Vargo Hoat's to Locke, for that matter. Those are the only two characters I think they have changed the names for. Seems weird to me.
                      Yes the GoT creators stated that they changed Asha's name because it would be confusing for non-book readers what with having so many characters already. I have no clue though why they changed Vargo Hoat to Locke. Plus was it ever mentioned in season 3 that Locke is a part of the Bloody Mummers? As far as I recall they left out that storyline entirely.

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                      • #12
                        I'm really over Theon being tortured. I have such a hard time watching those type of scenes to begin with and this is just stretching out way too long for me.

                        I just want someone to hurry up and kill Joffrey or something - he's been on my last nerve for quite a while now.

                        Poor Jon was too injured to be told that his brother was okay. I think he was under the impression that Theon had killed his brothers - it might be nice to just know that Sam had seen one of them and he was alive and well.

                        Of the characters that are sill alive Arya is my favourite.

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                        • #13
                          Am I the only one who was cheering when Arya stabbed that guy? It was good to see at least a little payback for all the evil done at the red wedding. It wasn't nearly enough mind you, but some is better than none.

                          I Don't have much else to say that wasn't already said, except that I think I'm the only person that doesn't care for Dany. I know she doesn't want to rule the Iron Throne, but her belief that she is entitled really bugs me. She lost whatever entitlement she might have had when her father was deposed.
                          “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.” -- Albert Einstein

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by PointMan View Post
                            Am I the only one who was cheering when Arya stabbed that guy? It was good to see at least a little payback for all the evil done at the red wedding. It wasn't nearly enough mind you, but some is better than none.

                            I Don't have much else to say that wasn't already said, except that I think I'm the only person that doesn't care for Dany. I know she doesn't want to rule the Iron Throne, but her belief that she is entitled really bugs me. She lost whatever entitlement she might have had when her father was deposed.
                            Honestly, she's probably the only one with any claim of right to the thing, by the rules that it claims to operate under. Robert was a usurper, so who cares if Stannis is his rightful heir or not? Or that Joffrey isn't really his blood? The entire "game of thrones" that these people play reminds me a lot of that riddle about the man going to St. Ive's (most know it from Die Hard With a Vengeance if nowhere else)

                            "As I was going to St. Ive's, I met a man with seven wifes. Every wife had seven sacks, every sack had seven cats, every cat had seven kittens; kittens, cats, sacks, and wives, how many were going to St. Ive's?"

                            As Samuel L. Jackson pointed out -- "the guy. Just the guy".

                            Point being, everything that Jon Arryn died learning, that the Lannisters kill and conspire over, that Renly envied and Stannis feels righteously deprived of, that Ned Stark lost his head over, and that Balon Greyjoy or the late Robb Stark want to pick up the pieces after... was all a sham. It was never really Robert's throne to begin with.

                            What style did Daenarys take when she met the masters of Yunkai (I'm even speaking Martin-ese now)? I can't find the full quote when Missandei introduces her, but it was all the cooler because it was all straight up truth.
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                            • #15
                              Well frankly I don't find the going on at Kings Landing to be that interesting. The real conflict for me is whats happening North of the wall. If they fail there, none of the petty squabbling will matter anyway. Consequently, Jon Snow is my favorite character, possibly followed by Tyrion.
                              “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.” -- Albert Einstein

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