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3.08 "Second Sons" episode discussion thread

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  • 3.08 "Second Sons" episode discussion thread

    I've been waiting for someone to post about this ep and thought I'd give it a go.

    I loved this episode purely because of Tyrian!... I want him to become king lol. I loved how he spoke to Sansa at the beginning putting her at ease. And is loved how vulnerable he looked when the evil Joffrey took away his stool, it was kind of sweet the way he interacted with Sansa to ask her to bend down for him very casual sort of suggesting it wasn't her he was embarrassed about but everyone else.

    Even the way Tywin reacted to shut everyone up was quite nice as we know he despises Tyrian but there is still that tiny slither of compassion, which he says its because he's a Lannister but I think deep down there is some paternal bond there cause its one thing to make strangers stop laughing at him but to defend him to Joffrey. Which might I add I love Tyrian for threatening Joffrey, he totally had it coming, the slimy little *grrr* first the insult at taking Ned's place at giving Sansa away it should have been anyone but him, but obviously he wanted to show her that even though she was getting married he'd still be there to taunt her, but then to accost her like that as if the wedding wasn't stressful enough. However Tryian even without knowing what Joffrey had said to her put him in his place! And he even came back from the brink of getting his head chopped off with tywin's help with charm all be it with a bit of embarrassment for Sansa but its better than being stripped in front of Everyone.

    But the next scene was my faviourt.

    "And so my watch begins"
    He couldn't have said it better, IMO his vow simular to the brotherhood never to sleep with Sansa and to protect her. It was beautiful even if she didn't understand it.

    Oh and the cheeky grin from shae was priceless

    That was my fav part of the episode, so probably follow with my least fav part and that was Melisandre and Gendry that was just weird in my opinion, it probably makes sense if you've read the books but I'm only on book 2. But it kind of saddened me because I was kinda hoping Arya and Gendry would become king and queen some day, it was just the way in a few eps back when Arya said "I could be your family" it was so sweet, but now it doesn't look too hopeful for Gendry, and that Melisandre is getting really creepy more than usual or is it just me?

    I'm intrigued about the hound helping Arya ever since season two I've been fond of the hound so I hope it works out and Arya mellows to him a bit.

    Well I guess that leave Daenerys' storyline... All I can say is I don't trust this new guy. Firstly he's way too pretty, secondly he' way too cocky I can see it ending in two ways 1 he dies after Danny gets what she wants... That's the good outcome the second is he worms his way into Danny's affections and ties to profit from her and screws up everything... I am really hoping that jorah kills him.

    I almost forgot about Sam! The attack of the birds was well scary like the movie but I was so happy that Sam got over his fears he's come a long way since joining the nights watch. And finally there is some slither of hope for beating the white walkers.

    I can't wait for next week what did you guys think?
    Dee@ Lucid Fanart || Twitter || Last.fm

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  • #2
    Sansa is really just a political pawn and I feel bad for her. But, given the choice of Joffrey or Tyrian I think she's better off with Tyrian because Tryian is just a better person. Joffrey is just a terrible human being and a horrific ruler and I can't believe the people haven't rebelled against him.

    I'm Team Targaryen for the throne. I think that she'll be a better monarch than either Joffrey or Stannis.

    At the end there did the White Walker actually die? I wasn't sure.

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    • #3
      I'm with you on Danny she will be so much better than anyone else in the running for the throne but I think it would be a nice twist if Arya and Grendy got together and became king and queen just because it is so unlikely and they are totally different from the type of people who would want to be king or queen... But saying that I also want Arya to become a Braavos assassin she can't be both but I'd be happy either way lol

      And the white walker must be dead... I mean he shattered like glass it will be weird if he can come back from that?
      Dee@ Lucid Fanart || Twitter || Last.fm

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      • #4
        Oh my god Tyrion and Sansa's wedding I loved drunk Tyrion, and how gentle and kind he was to her. It was just awwww.. I only wish they could open up to each other about how they are really feeling, I think she thinks that Tyrion is a typical Lannister and that's so not true. He could tell her how much he hates his family and that they have lots in common.. hating Joffrey! Cersei and Margaery was so funny “If you ever call me sister again I’ll have you strangled in your sleep.” I did really like that Cersei explained the significance of the song the Rains of Castamere to Margaery. She's so brilliant at getting across all the meaning in a story, it had me on edge.

        The white walker was brilliant, and I love Sam why oh why didn't he pick up the dragon glass before running?!! Visually it was fantastic and really creepy!

        Thank the gods, old and new that there was no Theon this week

        Umm more sex in the form of Gendry and Melisandre that just felt horrible. Why she had to get his blood that way.. I'm going to pretend it didn't happen I think, a leech there.. ouch!! Davos reading was lovely and I really like his discussion with Stannis and how they intervene to save Gendry from what I'm sure was a full bleeding.

        The second sons... I'm really disappointed with Daario, I mean in the books Danny goes on and on about how gorgeous he is.. I thought they'd find us a better looking actor personally! But I did love how that part played out, him bringing her the other captains heads was awesome! The rude one had to die for the way he spoke to her!

        I really loved Arya and the Hound, hopefully we'll get a good scene from them next week. Just two more episodes to go

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        • #5
          I loved Jamie and Brienne parting, it was the first time she didn't call him 'Kingslayer' and he vowed to keep her promise and return Arya and Sansa. I think she's probably the first person he's been able to be completely honest to, and just be himself. Brienne and the bear was just exactly right! Jamie going back for her was brilliant! For a second I worried he'd lose a foot as well as a hand! Just perfect
          sasha

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Nikki View Post
            Oh my god Tyrion and Sansa's wedding I loved drunk Tyrion, and how gentle and kind he was to her. It was just awwww.. I only wish they could open up to each other about how they are really feeling, I think she thinks that Tyrion is a typical Lannister and that's so not true. He could tell her how much he hates his family and that they have lots in common.. hating Joffrey! Cersei and Margaery was so funny “If you ever call me sister again I’ll have you strangled in your sleep.” I did really like that Cersei explained the significance of the song the Rains of Castamere to Margaery. She's so brilliant at getting across all the meaning in a story, it had me on edge.

            The white walker was brilliant, and I love Sam why oh why didn't he pick up the dragon glass before running?!! Visually it was fantastic and really creepy!

            Thank the gods, old and new that there was no Theon this week

            Umm more sex in the form of Gendry and Melisandre that just felt horrible. Why she had to get his blood that way.. I'm going to pretend it didn't happen I think, a leech there.. ouch!! Davos reading was lovely and I really like his discussion with Stannis and how they intervene to save Gendry from what I'm sure was a full bleeding.

            The second sons... I'm really disappointed with Daario, I mean in the books Danny goes on and on about how gorgeous he is.. I thought they'd find us a better looking actor personally! But I did love how that part played out, him bringing her the other captains heads was awesome! The rude one had to die for the way he spoke to her!

            I really loved Arya and the Hound, hopefully we'll get a good scene from them next week. Just two more episodes to go
            Whether Tyrion hated some of his family members was irrelevant in this context. Tyrion was working for his family's interests and wasn't going to turn against them and put Sansa's interests first. So what if he hated Joffrey? He had still been working to keep Joffrey on the throne. He burned a bunch of ships and people and won the battle of Blackwater to keep Joffrey on the throne, if it hadn't been for him Stannis would have probably won, and while we don't know if Stannis would have exchanged her, I doubt it would be worse for her than being in Lannisters' clutches. He was a senior member of their power structure, he was the Hand of the King in season 2, he was one of the people keeping Sansa captive (even if he was the "nice" one), he was waging a war against her family, and he agreed to marry her against her will. They were absolutely not in the position to be BFFs, and Sansa had absolutely no reason to trust him. And she shouldn't have trusted him. Their interests did not align. I hate the way they watered down the entire situation, and how horrible it was what the Lannisters were doing to Sansa, and tried to make it seem as if she and Tyrion were in the same situation. No, they weren't. That's not to say that I don't sympathize with Tyrion, but he wasn't the one who was a captive, he had a lot more freedom and power to choose what to do. All she wanted was to get away from the Lannisters (in the books, she is planning to escape with Dontos since early in book 2 - I also hated that they removed that from the show), she didn't want to be around them and hated being married to one of them, and Tyrion wasn't going to help her in that - and if she had trusted him and told him about it (fortunately, she's smarter than that), I don't think he'd let her go even though it's against his family's interests (especially since he didn't know what was going on with Jaime at the time, and Jaime was always naturally Tyrion's priority, not Sansa Stark).

            The entire wedding/bedding/forced marriage arc was done in a way that showed that the showrunners cared more about whitewashing Tyrion and Cersei than about Sansa's arc. They made it far less traumatizing and removed almost every moment where she was being defiant: instead of Sansa being told about the marriage a few hours before it, trying to run away and being threatened by Cersei and the Kingsguard members that she's going to be dragged kicking and screaming to the sept and the marriage bed, they let her know in advance and had that crappy, annoying scene with Margaery where they tried to make it look like Sansa should be grateful for being forced to marry one of her enemies (seriously?!). They don't show her refusing to kneel, they don't show her talking back to Joffrey and defying him. Fortunately, they were not able to remove Sansa refusing to have sex with Tyrion once given a chance, since that was a crucial part of the plot, but they did their best to make it look like she was in no danger, unlike in the books where Tyrion was intending to consummate the marriage, i.e. rape her, until the last moment when he realized he couldn't have sex with her before she gave consent. That scene was soooo much creepier and more traumatizing in the book, and Sansa telling him straightforwardly how she felt comes off as much braver in the books. The show did its best to prioritize Tyrion's perspective, the focus was on him all the time. Then they had his line "That's why gods made whores for Imps like me" changed to "And how my watch has started", as if Tyrion was not going to have sex with other women! Nonsense! In the book, he keeps having sex with Shae. It's like, we're mainly supposed to feel sorry for poor Tyrion because he's not going to be getting some with his child bride - even though he, as a man and Lannister, can sleep with other women. What about Sansa? She is only given a chance to refuse because Tyrion gives her that choice, he's the one with all the power (and for all she knows, he can change his mind) and that's the extent of it - it's not like, if she were to remain in KL, she would ever be given the freedom to choose to have sex with someone else, or for that matter, to do anything.

            It gets worse in Mhysa, where she's shown joking around with Tyrion, as if she's OK with her situation. I hate the way they portrayed Sansa in season 3 and the way they butchered her arc. In the books, it's crucial for her development, because she becomes really disillusioned with the institution of marriage and what mockery it was made into, and understands that it's a weapon of people trying to use her for her claim to Winterfell, without caring at all about her or her feelings (the Lannisters do that brutally and openly, the Tyrells are nicer about it, but the motive is the same, and others will try the same later, like Lysa when she wants to marry Sansa to her son). In the show, she learns... what? That Tyrion is a swell guy? Book!Sansa already knew that Tyrion was not as bad as Cersei or Joffrey, she even prayed for him during the battle of Blackwater in the book (as opposed to the show), and didn't have to be told that by Margaery of all people (what does Margaery even know about Tyrion?), but that didn't make her happy about being forced to marry him, why should it?
            You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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            • #7
              Tyrion and Sansa, so awkward. I loved it. The wedding was perfect, with Cersei threatening Margery with strangulation, Joffrey walking Sansa down the aisle, and taking Tyrion's little stool away. Tywin, in his long leather coat, was so menacing. Joffrey is a disgusting little shit, but I can't help but love to hate him. He's so awful, the psychopath.

              Great ending, with Sam killing the White Walker with a glass knife, then running past camera with the ravens following.

              This has to be one of my favourite episodes yet, even though it seems like Gendry's days are numbered, and I've had visions of him and Arya in years to come ruling the world . . . after Dany's had her turn obviously

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