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3.06 "The Climb" episode discussion thread

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  • 3.06 "The Climb" episode discussion thread

    So after the last three episodes pretty much all blew me away, this week's episode didn't quite reach that level of excellence for me. I'm not saying it was bad, far from it, but it didn't take my breath away (apart from a few scenes). The first half of the episode was rather slow and of course it doesn't help that the Sam and Gilly storyline and the Bran storyline are my least favourite of them all. Fortunately, things picked up after that.

    This was a great episode for Jon Snow and Ygritte! The climb of the Wall was brilliant, great CGI for a TV show, I was impressed. Ygritte is right, all they can rely on is each other as shown when Orell cut them loose on the Wall, not caring if they both died. Jon Snow must be quite the good lover if Ygritte keeps bringing up his skills again and again. The last shot of the two of them standing on the Wall and first looking at the lands beyond the Wall and then looking at the North (Stark territory) and then kissing was stunning!

    The Tywin vs. Lady Oleanna showdown was epic! The Lady of Thorns has gotten her way so far so it was kinda refreshing to see her getting taken down a notch by a man who is even cleverer and more savvy in scheming than she is. I like that Lady Oleanna admitted it in the end by saying that Tywin lived up to his reputation and breaking the pen. Their verbal sparring was a joy to watch and at times hilarious. I couldn't believe that Lady Oleanna asked Tywin if he had ever experimented with boys. Nice segue from Loras' "sins" to bringing up the incest between Cersei and Jaime, that was so clever! I also loved the following dialogue:

    Oleanna: "Your daugher is...."
    Tywin: "Rich? The most beautiful woman in the world? The mother of a king?"
    Olennna: "Old"

    Snap!

    The scene between Loras and Sansa was soooo awkward! Loras calling his pin a brooch and going on about gowns, etc. and Sansa still didn't realise he way gay? I did love how they bonded over hating King's Landing though.

    I thought it was rather noble of Tyrion to volunteer to tell Sansa about their upcoming wedding. And poor Tyrion having to do it with Shae there, that cannot have been easy for him! Poor Sansa, once again being trapped by the Lannisters and seeing her last hope sail away with Littlefinger's ship. The girl really cannot catch a break!

    Tyrion and Cersei almost bonding about how badly their father treated them was interesting. I like that on the show their relationship is much more grey area than in the books and it is expressed well in scenes like this one. It was also an important scene since we learned that it was Joffrey, not Cersei, who had given the order to one of his Kingsguard to kill Tyrion during the Battle of the Blackwater. Not that it is out of character for Joffrey but Tyrion was right, that was really stupid!

    Oh man, Varys is right, Littlefinger really is one of the most dangerous men in Westeros. His monologue at the end was so disturbing and I cannot believe he did that to Ros. I understand that he must have been angry to discover that she was a spy for Varys but giving her to Joffrey (knowing what a monster Joffrey is), that was just evil.

    Speaking of evil: As a person who cannot stand Theon, even I am feeling sorry for him. The torture scenes were even more horrible on screen than they are in the books and I admit at times I had to look away. I don't get why the GoT creators make such a huge secret as to who Theon's torturer is, I was convinced he would state his name at the end of that scene. Oh well maybe in next week's episode.

    Poor Jaime, not being able to cut his meat anymore and yay for Brienne helping him out. Brienne in a dress did not quite as ridiculous as I imagined it from the descriptions in the books but it was certainly unusual. Roose Bolton showed his true colours. Well I'm glad he is this greedy because it means that Jaime has a chance of survival. I loved Jaime explicitly stating that Brienne coming with him was unnegotiable. Unfortunately, Roose Bolton has other plans for Brienne. Book 3 spoiler:
    Spoiler:
    I cannot wait to see Jaime riding back to Harrenhaal and saving her! I wonder whether they will have Brienne fighting the bear as well or whether they will change this part of the storyline as well. I hope they will film it just like it is in the book.


    I was rather surprised by Thoros and Melisandre meeting up, that was certainly unexpected. Although I guess it makes sense that they would do without the whole Edric Storm storyline and focus on Gendry instead. I wonder, did Melisandre see it in her fires that Gendry is Robert's bastard son and thus has king's blood? Poor Gendry, I hope he will get out of this somehow. I loved Arya sticking up for her friend and telling the Brotherhood Without Banners again what she thought of them. The scene between her and Melisandre was interesting. I guess Melisandre saw all the people Arya had killed through Jacquen when she talked about seeing blue, grey, brown eyes. That was creepy!

    So not my favourite episode this season due to the slow beginning and focus on characters I don't really care about (plus no Dany! ) but the Jon/Ygritte scenes and the Tywin vs. Lady Oleanna showdown were brilliant. What did you guys think of "The Climb"?

  • #2
    I think the reason they're keeping the torturers name a secret is so as to reveal it after a certain event that takes place mid novel.
    Learning Experience: "...one of those things that says, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.”
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    • #3
      Originally posted by shipperx View Post
      I think the reason they're keeping the torturers name a secret is so as to reveal it after a certain event that takes place mid novel.
      Ah I get what you mean. It might add even more drama to that event, we will see. I wonder if the reveal of the torturer's identity will be a big surprise for non-book readers. I honestly cannot judge that since for me it is so crystal clear.

      What did you make of episode 3.06?

      Comment


      • #4
        I really loved the episode. It may have been slower paced than the last couple of episodes, but it felt like an important bridge episode. A lot of the plots that have slowly been moving along during the first five episodes came to an important turning point and a lot of the characters seem to have moved into position for the next turn of events. Episodes like this one may not be as intense as the big action episodes, but they are necessary to maintain the narrative flow, and I always appreciate if the writers take the time and care for that.

        Originally posted by Cori
        I wonder if the reveal of the torturer's identity will be a big surprise for non-book readers. I honestly cannot judge that since for me it is so crystal clear.
        I didn't read the books (well, I read the first one) and I can assure you that most of the non-book readers will probably have no real idea who that guy even is, even when his identity is revealed. I mean, I looked it up, and I still find it somewhat confusing.
        Spoiler:
        The fact that the show failed to properly introduce us to the Boltons, their history and connections to the Starks, they still feel like blank pages to me, so the reveal that it is Bolton's bastard son who tortures Theon really means nothing to me as a show viewer. I really hope they'll make an effort to explain that storyline a bit better for non-readers.

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        • #5
          I loved the episode as per usual, but maybe it indeed was a little slowish compared to the previous ones. Tywin and Oleanna were of course wonderful to watch.

          And I must say I giggled like crazy when Loras went on and on about brooches vs pins. It was just so cute!

          Have they eviled up Joffrey in the show? I mean, he was quite nasty in the books. But this sadist/murder thing, was it there as well? I cannot remember. The show!Joffrey is a match to Theon's torturer already... (Speaking of which I too had to look away at certain moments in that torture scene.) And come to think of it, Joffrey gives a vibe of a person who wouldn't do his killings himself. That he'd be too much of a coward in a way. I guess for me it would have made more sense if the camera would have moved to reveal us one of Joffrey's kingsguards with a crossbow and Joffrey watching from the side. Okay, enough with the creepy.

          On the bit brighter side, Jon and Ygritte were sweet. ("I'm your woman now.") And the ending. Very beautiful.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by galathea View Post
            I really loved the episode. It may have been slower paced than the last couple of episodes, but it felt like an important bridge episode. A lot of the plots that have slowly been moving along during the first five episodes came to an important turning point and a lot of the characters seem to have moved into position for the next turn of events. Episodes like this one may not be as intense as the big action episodes, but they are necessary to maintain the narrative flow, and I always appreciate if the writers take the time and care for that.
            Oh I totally agree with that! My "problem" with the first half of the episode was more the fact that it focused on characters and storylines that I don't care that much for and I was all antsy to get to the storylines that I love, especially since episode 3.05 ended with the whole Tywin telling his children whom to marry thing and I wanted to see that storyline play out on screen. I have rewatched the episode tonight and could appreciate the first half of the episode much more now because I knew the good stuff (IMO) was still to come.

            I didn't read the books (well, I read the first one) and I can assure you that most of the non-book readers will probably have no real idea who that guy even is, even when his identity is revealed. I mean, I looked it up, and I still find it somewhat confusing.
            Spoiler:
            The fact that the show failed to properly introduce us to the Boltons, their history and connections to the Starks, they still feel like blank pages to me, so the reveal that it is Bolton's bastard son who tortures Theon really means nothing to me as a show viewer. I really hope they'll make an effort to explain that storyline a bit better for non-readers.
            Books spoiler:
            Spoiler:
            Well the character of Ramsay Snow was mentioned a few times as well on the show but his name was never given, he was only referred to as Lord Bolton's bastard, like when Lord Bolton told Robb that his bastard could retake Winterfell for him and beat the Greyjoys. But yes I agree, the show certainly didn't provide the proper background to the Boltons but hopefully, like you said, they will include some information and explanations in the episodes to come.


            Originally posted by blue_peroxide View Post
            Have they eviled up Joffrey in the show? I mean, he was quite nasty in the books. But this sadist/murder thing, was it there as well? I cannot remember. The show!Joffrey is a match to Theon's torturer already... (Speaking of which I too had to look away at certain moments in that torture scene.) And come to think of it, Joffrey gives a vibe of a person who wouldn't do his killings himself. That he'd be too much of a coward in a way. I guess for me it would have made more sense if the camera would have moved to reveal us one of Joffrey's kingsguards with a crossbow and Joffrey watching from the side. Okay, enough with the creepy.
            They may have eviled Joffrey up slightly on the show. He was certainly a sadist in the books as well though. I think Joffrey is a coward when he is facing people equal to or stronger than him, he was clearly afraid during the Battle of the Blackwater. However, when he has the upper hand like with a poor tied up prostitute I think it's perfectly in character for Joffrey to do his own killings. Especially since he seems to have this weird and sick fascination with his crossbow (as also evidenced in the episode where he showed it to Margaery).

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cori View Post
              Oh I totally agree with that! My "problem" with the first half of the episode was more the fact that it focused on characters and storylines that I don't care that much for and I was all antsy to get to the storylines that I love, especially since episode 3.05 ended with the whole Tywin telling his children whom to marry thing and I wanted to see that storyline play out on screen. I have rewatched the episode tonight and could appreciate the first half of the episode much more now because I knew the good stuff (IMO) was still to come.
              Heh, I guess I am lucky. There are really no storylines that do not interest me on some level, not least because I always feel that all storylines will converge at some point. Of course, there are some storylines I like less than others, like everything to do with Melisandre usually bores me, but overall I find something to enjoy in most of them.

              Originally posted by Cori View Post
              Books spoiler:
              Spoiler:
              Well the character of Ramsay Snow was mentioned a few times as well on the show but his name was never given, he was only referred to as Lord Bolton's bastard, like when Lord Bolton told Robb that his bastard could retake Winterfell for him and beat the Greyjoys. But yes I agree, the show certainly didn't provide the proper background to the Boltons but hopefully, like you said, they will include some information and explanations in the episodes to come.
              Well
              Spoiler:
              I daresay it's difficult enough to keep track of all named characters as it is, so the random mention of Lord Bolton's bastard is not something that tends to stand out as noteworthy. And even knowing who Theon's torturer is, I still have no clue why he tortures him and what he wants from him. I mean, from the fact that Roose Bolton allows Jaime to walk, I can gather that he is no longer loyal to Robb, so he would have no interest in having his son torture Theon as a punishment for taking Winterfell (and presumably killing the Stark kids). I really hope Ramsay's motivation will become clearer later.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by blue_peroxide View Post
                I
                Have they eviled up Joffrey in the show? I mean, he was quite nasty in the books. But this sadist/murder thing, was it there as well? l.
                Let's put it this way, the book literally has Joffrey torture and disembowel kittens for 'fun.'
                Learning Experience: "...one of those things that says, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.”
                ~Douglas Adams

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by galathea View Post
                  Well
                  Spoiler:
                  I daresay it's difficult enough to keep track of all named characters as it is, so the random mention of Lord Bolton's bastard is not something that tends to stand out as noteworthy. And even knowing who Theon's torturer is, I still have no clue why he tortures him and what he wants from him. I mean, from the fact that Roose Bolton allows Jaime to walk, I can gather that he is no longer loyal to Robb, so he would have no interest in having his son torture Theon as a punishment for taking Winterfell (and presumably killing the Stark kids). I really hope Ramsay's motivation will become clearer later.
                  I agree that it is far too difficult to keep up with all the characters, whether you read the books or not. So a passing mention of someone we haven't even met isn't likely to stick in our brains.

                  That said, I am sure that this storyline with Theon will make sense eventually. I think the the obstacle the writers faced in this is that Theon's story doesn't really pick back up until book 5, and it is then that we are told some of what went on while he was away from the reader. So the writers are sort of shoehorning that stuff in now.

                  I have been watching the show with my husband who doesn't read the books and I asked him a few times during this episode if he was confused. And of course he was! As a reader, I could identify how odd some of these things were. My outside knowledge certainly came as an aid. That goes for the Theon storyline, as well as the one with Melisandre, even though this business with her and the Brotherhood and Gendry is a separate entity from the books. At the very least, I know what she wants. I also can discern what she meant with that peculiar prophecy to Arya. If I hadn't read the books, I am certain I would be scratching my head over that remark.

                  Originally posted by shipperx View Post
                  Let's put it this way, the book literally has Joffrey torture and disembowel kittens for 'fun.'
                  I also want to add that Joffrey is not a POV character in the books so we only get outside glimpses of him. Who is to say how much more malevolent he is on his "off-screen" time.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jenni Lou View Post
                    I think the the obstacle the writers faced in this is that Theon's story doesn't really pick back up until book 5, and it is then that we are told some of what went on while he was away from the reader. So the writers are sort of shoehorning that stuff in now.
                    Yeah, I always wonder if the producers have contractual obligations to the actors, forcing them to give screentime to characters that are not actually in the respective volume of the book series and bring later storylines forward. I wouldn't really mind if some characters are not in a season because the books did not involve them. I'd rather see the time spent on the actual events of the book, and it's not like I would forget the characters, just because I don't see them for a season or two.

                    Originally posted by Jenni Lou View Post
                    I have been watching the show with my husband who doesn't read the books and I asked him a few times during this episode if he was confused. And of course he was! As a reader, I could identify how odd some of these things were. My outside knowledge certainly came as an aid. That goes for the Theon storyline, as well as the one with Melisandre, even though this business with her and the Brotherhood and Gendry is a separate entity from the books. At the very least, I know what she wants. I also can discern what she meant with that peculiar prophecy to Arya. If I hadn't read the books, I am certain I would be scratching my head over that remark.
                    See, the Melisandre stuff doesn't really confuse me. We know that she wants Gendry because of his Baratheon lineage, and even if I don't know the specifics of her plans for him, I understand her actions in the bigger context. And her words to Arya are clearly meant to be prophetic and their meaning will become clear with time. But the Theon stuff is an actual ongoing storyline and it bothers me that I have no clue what purpose it serves in the bigger schemes of things. As it is, the storyline comes off as senseless violence.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What's so hard for this show is that there are so many characters, and they all have a purpose, a plan and a history. But there is no way the show can ever cover them all.

                      Take Bran for example, the Reed's that he's travelling with. They are introduced in book 2 when they come to stay at Winterfell for the Harvest, their story is really involved, down to how their father helped Ned. The way they interact with Bran and how he feels about them isn't even scratched on during the show, which makes his journey seem really dull compared to how it comes to life in the book. I don't think they've made any reference to what he is yet or what he can do.

                      And again they spent a good 10 minutes this week on a scene that wasn't in the book.. Thoros and Melisandre.. I guess it makes sense she took Gendry but did we really need the whole history on why he now believes in the Lord of Light..

                      Theon.. I still don't feel sorry for him! He's such an idiot and has been so cruel. Again it's weird having this hear, it is happening at this time but they can't really drag it out much longer so I'm not sure how they will work this out.

                      I loved Tywin arranging marriages with Lady Oleanna. Poor Sansa, it's just going from bad to worse with a tiny few minutes of hope in between.

                      Loved the climbing of the wall. Although again you can't possibly get across how Jon feels and what he's thinking as he's climbing that wall. It's so intense in the book. But the effects were great, especially when he and Ygritte were cut lose and he saved them both. It was so well done seeing them standing on the top of the wall like that

                      I can't believe we are in the second half of the season already.. I'm so not ready for it to be over!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nikki View Post
                        Take Bran for example, the Reed's that he's travelling with. They are introduced in book 2 when they come to stay at Winterfell for the Harvest, their story is really involved, down to how their father helped Ned. The way they interact with Bran and how he feels about them isn't even scratched on during the show, which makes his journey seem really dull compared to how it comes to life in the book. I don't think they've made any reference to what he is yet or what he can do.
                        This is so true. I really wondered why the writers spent that scene on the bickering between Osha and Meera instead of actually giving us some insight into who the Reeds are. Even Jojen's 'prophetic' dream was completely wasted because it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. I really like Bran's story and am curious about the Reeds, so it makes me sad that the little time we spend with them is wasted on inconsequential stuff.

                        Originally posted by Nikki View Post
                        And again they spent a good 10 minutes this week on a scene that wasn't in the book.. Thoros and Melisandre.
                        I don't mind if the writers spend time on scenes that are not in the books. In fact, I think it is necessary. The moment the writers deviate from certain events in the books, they cannot rely on the books to give the necessary context/backstory, so they need to expand on them onscreen to make the show's canon consistent. The show and the books will always be two separate entities.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nikki View Post
                          What's so hard for this show is that there are so many characters, and they all have a purpose, a plan and a history. But there is no way the show can ever cover them all.

                          Take Bran for example, the Reed's that he's travelling with. They are introduced in book 2 when they come to stay at Winterfell for the Harvest, their story is really involved, down to how their father helped Ned. The way they interact with Bran and how he feels about them isn't even scratched on during the show, which makes his journey seem really dull compared to how it comes to life in the book. I don't think they've made any reference to what he is yet or what he can do.
                          Agreed! However, even though we are given more explanations about Bran's storyline in the books, it's still my least favourite one of all the POV storylines. It's just not as gripping to me as other storylines (with the exception of the Sam and Gilly storyline, that's dull both on the show and in the books IMO).

                          And again they spent a good 10 minutes this week on a scene that wasn't in the book.. Thoros and Melisandre.. I guess it makes sense she took Gendry but did we really need the whole history on why he now believes in the Lord of Light..
                          While I agree that the story Thoros told about his relationship with the Lord of Light was not really needed, I actually think it was a good choice of the GoT creators to take this shortcut and focus on Gendry (instead of Edric Storm) and have him be the one that Melisandre captured for her purposes.

                          Loved the climbing of the wall. Although again you can't possibly get across how Jon feels and what he's thinking as he's climbing that wall. It's so intense in the book. But the effects were great, especially when he and Ygritte were cut lose and he saved them both. It was so well done seeing them standing on the top of the wall like that
                          Yes! While I loved all the Jon/Ygritte scenes in this episode, I'm not so sure it came across how conflicted Jon really is, how his loyalties are split between Ygritte/the wildlings and the Night's Watch and how he really struggles with that. Maybe this will be focused on more in the next few episodes.

                          I can't believe we are in the second half of the season already.. I'm so not ready for it to be over!
                          I know! Waiting for season 4 will suck so much, especially given what will happen towards the end of season 3.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by galathea View Post
                            This is so true. I really wondered why the writers spent that scene on the bickering between Osha and Meera instead of actually giving us some insight into who the Reeds are. Even Jojen's 'prophetic' dream was completely wasted because it didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. I really like Bran's story and am curious about the Reeds, so it makes me sad that the little time we spend with them is wasted on inconsequential stuff.
                            Exactly, I feel they are giving us this storyline, which if I hadn’t read the books I really wouldn’t understand any of what’s going on. The Reeds are such interesting characters, and it’s sad we are missing out on their story and especially Jojen’s dreams.

                            My speculation on books yet released..
                            Spoiler:
                            I think that Bran is going to be a major player in the final story of the books and in order to get his character developed to that point I feel they need to give us more of his story line now. How he’s growing up, what he’s experiencing.. it’s so interesting


                            Originally posted by Cori View Post
                            Agreed! However, even though we are given more explanations about Bran's storyline in the books, it's still my least favourite one of all the POV storylines.
                            It’s not one of my favourites, compared to Dany and Tyrion’s stories But I feel they are making it boring in the show though, and there is so much more opportunity to get inside Bran’s head a bit more. Especially with his wolf dreams, those would be great to see and they could start giving us a few things to think about with that.

                            Originally posted by galathea View Post
                            I don't mind if the writers spend time on scenes that are not in the books. In fact, I think it is necessary. The moment the writers deviate from certain events in the books, they cannot rely on the books to give the necessary context/backstory, so they need to expand on them onscreen to make the show's canon consistent. The show and the books will always be two separate entities.
                            I can deal with that if it adds value to the show, or make sense, like Melisandre taking Gendry makes sense completely and I think it was smart to do that rather than bring in another set of characters. But I worry that storylines that are important are being put aside for things that maybe we don’t need. Like for instance Bran’s story is really suffering, to the point where nobody will be invested in it… Where I really worry with that is that the books aren’t finished yet, HBO can take this show one way and end up really stuck if the final story is Bran and the Reeds!! Not that I think that’s remotely likely!

                            But oddly enough I trust the show more than the author to end the story in a way I’m happy with.. but I still struggle when time is spent on things that I don’t think add value, especially at the detriment of characters I think have so much more to explore.

                            Originally posted by Cori View Post
                            Yes! While I loved all the Jon/Ygritte scenes in this episode, I'm not so sure it came across how conflicted Jon really is, how his loyalties are split between Ygritte/the wildlings and the Night's Watch and how he really struggles with that. Maybe this will be focused on more in the next few episodes.
                            Like this scene, visually it was stunning.. but how they will across Jon’s struggles with all this I have no idea.

                            I wish we also had more Cersei, her schemes and her dealings with her brother and father are just brilliant

                            Originally posted by Cori View Post
                            I know! Waiting for season 4 will suck so much, especially given what will happen towards the end of season 3.
                            I’m trying so hard not to think about that.. I hope the show goes in a different direction

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nikki View Post
                              Like this scene, visually it was stunning.. but how they will across Jon’s struggles with all this I have no idea.
                              I really think depicting Jon's struggle is very difficult to achieve for the show's producers, because Jon does not have a confidant amongst Mance's people and hence he cannot voice any of his thoughts openly. The books have a clear advantage there, because they can just give us insight into Jon's thoughts directly. I do think Jon's struggle plays in his expressions when Ygritte has her little 'do not betray me' speech, but of course it doesn't give us much compared to the books. Since I am a huge fan of Jon's character and his storyline, I really regret that, too.

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