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3.04 "And Now His Watch Is Ended" discussion thread

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  • 3.04 "And Now His Watch Is Ended" discussion thread

    Will you bloody Bolton men finally stop hurting and humiliating Jaime? I seriously don't know how much more of this I can take. Sorry, I needed to get that off my chest first.

    Otherwise, another fantastic episode! Season 3 has been really excellent so far and does the brilliant third book justice (mostly). The last 5 - 10 minutes of this episode were really jaw dropping! Even knowing what Dany was going to do, I was still blown away by the visual epicness of it all. Scenes like the very last one of the episode with Dany and her host of Unsullied marching off with the three dragons flying above them work so much better and are so much more epic on screen than they are on the page. Dany telling her Unsullied and Drogon to attack the slavers in High Valyrian gave me goosebumps. I love that she is so anti-slavery and that whole slaves getting revenge on their masters vibe totally reminded me of Spartacus (R.I.P.). And just like on Spartacus, seeing the slaves rise up and taking their revenge (even if ordered by Dany) felt just as satisfying.

    Naturally, the other parts of the episode paled in comparison to the sheer epicness of Dany's scenes. Still, there were plenty of other scenes I enjoyed. I loved the concern Brienne showed for Jaime and how she gave him a pep talk in language he could understand to ensure that he ate and did not give up. I also loved how Jaime was not able to answer her when she asked him why he had saved her from being raped in last week's episode. I think he doesn't know himself why but he is slowly but surely changing into the man he could be and despite his many wrongdoings and his twisted family he is discovering that he could actually be a decent man who is capable of doing unselfish and honourable things. I just love Jaime's character development throughout the series so much so please excuse my long-winded ramblings on him.

    I also enjoyed seeing once again how on the one hand Margaery is able to manipulate Joffrey and on the other hand tries to be a good friend to Sansa. I have to admit that I was rather surprised that the creators decided to have Varys and the Queen of Thorns conspire together but I do like Varys so it's nice to see him have more screentime and learn more about his backstory. What really bugged me though is that they came up with the plan that Sansa is supposed to marry Loras. They really should know better! Loras is a member of the Kingsguard and as such is not allowed to marry or have children. In fact, a big part of why Loras joined the Kingsguard was so that he would not have to marry (him being gay and all) so if the GoT creators change this from the books and make it illogical, I'm going to be very cross.

    I'm also rather concerned about Varys knowing so much about Littlefinger's plans. Ros really cannot be trusted! Too many people know about Lord Baelish's plans and I'm wondering how (book 3 spoiler)
    Sansa's escape can go off without a hitch if so many people already know what Baelish plans. I really hope and pray that the creators won't change this part of Sansa's storyline because I found that one of the most satisfying things to read in the third book.

    Very excited about meeting Beric Dondarrion and I thought the actor did a good job! I cannot wait to see the fight between Dondarrion and the Hound, it sucks that it will only be in next week's episode. It was nice to hear Arya bring up Micah again and demanding justice for his death.

    Seeing the Old Bear die was very sad! Not to mention that he was betrayed by his own brothers. I have to admit though that I cheered when Craster was killed. Good riddance! The whole Sam and Gilly storyline rather bores me, I'm afraid, just like it did in the books.

    So I'm guessing the theory that the young man who helped Theon escape is Ramsay Snow (Roose Bolton's bastard son) makes more and more sense. One guy called him "bastard" in last week's episode but I wasn't sure if that was meant literally or just as an insult. However, the mind games he played with Theon in episodes 3.03 and 3.04 are totally in character for Ramsay. I have to say it was nice to get some self-awareness from Theon in this week's episode.

    What did you guys think of this week's episode?

  • #2
    I didn't want to start the thread, because I don't know when people watch the show, but HOLY CRAP it was good.

    I personally can't manage to muster too much give a crap about Jaime yet. Yes, he snowed those guys out of raping Brienne -- congratulations, Kingslayer, you've done one not-shitty thing on this show now! I need only remember him ambushing Ned, slaughtering his men (and pulling that dagger to do for Jory was not exactly all that "clean" compared to the sales pitch he likes to make) and beating his poor admiring cousin's brains out of his head to lose much sympathy.

    Now, that said, I still wouldn't mind seeing him kill his captors, just like I despise Varys but wish him well with whatever he has planned for the guy in the box.

    I was feeling a little enthused about Arya and Gendry's chances with these brotherhood guys until they went all lord of light on the situation. Nothing ever good happens around your basic fire/death cult. I think I'm rooting for the Hound there all of the a sudden. You know where you stand with Sandor Clegane, is the thing.

    I don't trust Roz a ton, but she'd probably be in my King's Landing Top 5. She won me over with her warning to Shae on Sansa's behalf. Also, I won't lie, I laughed that Podrick's... podrick is still the talk of the movers and shakers in King's Landing. What a silly thing.

    The thing about Sansa marrying Loras... I don't really care for his part of it, he could and would contrive to have a his needs met on the side, as nobles have done for time out of mind. I guess I could see the Kingsguard being an ideal outlet for him, but he was guard to a pretender anyway. He's no king to guard but Joffrey now, and Joffrey is all full up. It's Sansa I feel for -- Loras is sort of iconic for every fantasy she had about life at court, from their very first meeting. And marrying him would be a great way to free her of the Lannisters (but said for her family, I suppose, since she'd be even farther away, but safe and alive). But the poor girl will have any last illusions she has shattered other than on the off chance that Loras is equal to the task/has at least nominal interest in her sex. She just can't catch a break at all.

    Margaery is awesome. I don't trust her particularly much at all, but she might be the only one in King's Landing other than her grandmother that actually gets what it means to rule successfully. Cersei and Joffrey have been so self-absorbed for so long, and really that whole family, have no concept of the sanctuary the love of the commonfolk can buy a monarch.

    I also love Tywin in his own horrible way -- this is the second time this season he's completely deflated one of his children's built up wall of self-pity by saying "no, I don't disdain you as a father because you're a woman/dwarf, I disdain you because of the following reasons about yourself that suck". I don't know why I love those moments, I just do, both with Cersei who I hate or Tyrion who I love. Both of them have defined their bad relationships with Tywin in the (pace "The Breakfast Club") simplest terms and most convenient definitions, but Tywin was more than happy to point out Cersei's real problem is that she is not nearly as her ego convinces her and that Tyrion's is that he's a whoring layabout. I can't wait to see how he and Joffrey interact (plus, I bet every single one of the younger actors must get amped up when they get to work with Dance).

    The mindgame on Theon was horrifying, but actually... didn't work for me all that much. So, they killed a bunch of their own men just to screw with his head? That's Evil Overlord list stuff.

    The Night's Watch stuff... wow, did not expect that. I was sitting there kind of wondering why they put up with Crastor. I mean Mormont, not mutiny. I was like "look, he's a wildling, he's a pretty awful, disgusting human being, and honestly you guys would be on pretty solid footing for your overall mission if you just killed him, freed his daughter-wife-slaves, and resupplied to make it back to the Wall -- you have a realm to defend". So I wasn't upset at all when it happened.

    But seeing the total breakdown of the men of the Watch after that, the mutiny, killing Mormont, and just the bloodthirsty sickness of it, I was surprised. I mean, there's barely a Night's Watch to speak of now if they took some hundreds north and who is even left alive to return, or that would? Glad to see Samwell finally found something to make him brave in the form of Gilly and her boy.

    Danaerys... what can I say about that whole sequence? I mean, I knew she had to have some plan that involved not giving up her dragon, but it was so brilliantly done. In hindsight, it's obvious every step had to be the way she took it, because she couldn't control the Unsullied, free or otherwise, without having first been given control of them. And she said the word again! So she's already effectively sacked two cities without any weapons other than her own force of will and still juvenile dragons. I love Jorah and Barristan, but I had to laugh "that was some great standing around and watching you guys did, thanks". Now they'll no better in the future. They still haven't figured out that everybody around Dany is playing checkers, and she's playing chess. I love the Starks, but I hope that when she takes back her throne and makes it clear that she didn't come back for six kingdoms, that they'll remember that little Season 1 conference they had in which they pointed out that it was only the Targaryens that they had followed before and that's why Robb should be King in the North.

    Also, quote of the week from the TWOP recaplet that sums up how dangerously misguided the slaver was in trying to trade for the dragon -- "But she goes ahead with the exchange, in which she gets control of over eight thousand trained soldiers and the slave master gets to hold a chain attached to a dragon."

    Pretty much sums it up
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    • #3
      I'm about 30% into the 5th book right now. And I had read somewhere that Iwan Rheon had been cast as
      . So I was sort of wondering if they were changing this part of the books a bit. I couldn't understand why he was helping Theon escape. Okay, I get it now!

      Poor Theon. He's one of those characters--like Jamie Lannister, or Sandor Clegane--that I have this strange sympathy for. They do these terrible things. And then they show you that latent decency that lingers beneath. But Theon, in particular, is difficult to fully hate. I mean, I can understand. He lives in this brutal world and his father led a rebellion and as a result he was sent off to be a ward at Winterfell. A captive,or hostage essentially. And then a decade passes and he sees his father again, only to be shunned. He feels like he has nowhere to belong. That he is worthless and unloved. And he does these horrible things to win his father's admiration. And all for nothing. I was proud of Theon for admitting to himself that his "true father" was beheaded in King's Landing. It's a shame that he couldn't recognize this earlier.

      But honestly, the last scene made the episode. I got chills. Even teared up a bit. She got her army and all without having the stigma of owning slaves. You go, girl!

      And damn,Varys got some screen time! He was all over the place. And I enjoyed it. He's such a delight to watch because he's so mysterious. Loved his quote about Littlefinger seeing the kingdoms burn to the ground if it meant he could be king of the ashes. Provocative words. And Lady Olenna continues to be awesome.

      Like Cori, I am also wondering if they will stay on course for Sansa's storyline in the book. Because it is interesting! Not only for her, but for a certain someone else, as well.

      I'm still not sure how to feel about Margaery. I like her. But I do wonder what her true ambitions are. Last season she said she didn't want to be a queen, she wanted to be THE Queen. But I also get the impression she is being maneuvered by her father into this leadership. In any case, I do enjoy her and her ease with manipulating Joffrey. How hilarious was it when Cersei complained of this very fact to her father and he was happy to hear it?
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      • #4
        3.04 was awesome. I've read the books so I knew what would happen in Astapor, but seeing it onscreen was great. The visual image of the Unsullied following Dany and the dragons flying above them. Wow.
        Wonderful episode all around, wouldn't change a thing. (Although the fact that they still talk about Podrick's, hm, accomplishments was a bit silly but hey, why not, bit of a comic relief.)
        Interesting casting for Ramsay Bolton (if it is him) regarding how he's described in the books.
        Oh, and Margarey continues to rule. Such fun to watch how she plays Joffrey.
        And - poor Jamie, despite all he's done, that was really, really hard to watch.
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        • #5
          Such a great episode, it actually made me open Photoshop for the first time in two years That last scene with Dany and her host of Unsullied just was amazing, it was so Epic seeing it on screen, even better than I imaged it when reading it in the book! I loved her speaking High Valyrian, and the look on the master's face when he realised she had understood everything he'd said was brilliant.. Then Drogon attacking him awesome! She's just got the character perfectly, it really gave me chills.

          Poor Jamie, wearing his hand around his neck.. It's so good that Brienne gave him a bit of a life lecture, it's not fair, bad things happen, mostly to good people, he's not even a good person so he needs to just deal with it and get on with things. The first and only good thing he has done was saving Brienne from being raped, I really liked how he couldn't explain why he'd done it. He has a long way to go but that was a small start at least

          Margaery was brilliant! Honestly I gave really thought too much about her in the book but she's being brought to life really well so far. I love how she's manipulating Joffrey and that Tywin is just glad someone is as Cersei has no control over him

          I'm not 100% sure about all the Varys stuff this episode, I liked him planning with the Queen of Thrones.. Although it's not Loras Sansa is supposed to marry! He's a member of the Knights Watch! I can't remember the name from the book but it's the other brother.. Anyway, hopefully there won't be too many of those little mistakes! It's not exactly like it would require so much effort if they'd just got the name right .. Back to Varys, yes I liked his back story a lot, he knows way too much about Littlefingers plans, and why or why does he have the magician in the box??!!! I really hope they don't take up time that could be spent on other characters resolving something meaningless like Varys revenge.

          I agree with Cori, the Sam and Gilly storyline is really boring for me. I was sad when the old Bear was killed, just goes to show what happens when you get a group of murderers, rapists and thieves and send them off into a fight they didn't want to be in, asking them to die for a cause they don't care about.. I'm surprised there haven't been incidents like this before on the wall.

          Poor Theon! It's funny as all that's happening to him, you only hear about in book 6, but that's because he gets his own chapter then and he's remembering this happen from years ago, so I guess they are going to show it all in chronological order. I feel a bit more sorry for him than Jamie, as really he is very weak, he was swayed over once and then had to follow through, I never believed he was pure evil, just weak and misguided.. Oh well he's paying for that mistake now

          Really looking forward to this week's episode.. With Beric Dondarrion and the Hound's fight!!


          • #6
            Varys is still one of my favourites. His monologue was so good. Tyrion's reactions just added an extra touch of horror. Loved him and

            Joffrey wooing/flirting with Margery is fantastic 'oh and here is where so and so was quartered and mutilated by a troupe of psychotic clowns'

            Poor Theon, I can't help but feel sorry for him. He's just a fool trying to please everyone. Ramsay Bolton is fantastically maniacal. Poor Sansa, taken in by the manipulations of Margery, who is so good at reading people and giving them exactly what they want, even if they don't know they want it. Theon could only hope for a drop of her charm and brains.

            I couldn't believe Dany was going to give away a dragon. And when she spoke the language, that was just great. The Unsullied as free men wanting to fight for her was pretty emotional. She is surely the best of all of them.


            • #7
              Agh I wish I'd just watched this too as I'm not sure of the details of what has happened at different points, but I think Daenerys is a really strong character but one who often acts rashly. I've liked her and mildly disliked her at varying points. I've only read the first book (fully intend to continue reading the rest eventually), but I think her choices/actions make more sense when you see her as the very young girl she is in the book. Socially her age isn't looked on the same as it is in our social structures, and there are other strong young leaders (as well as foolish ones), but even with the tough experiences she has had in her life she is still limited in experience for making a lot of the decisions she does and for understanding the negative fallouts/potentials. I think her fixation on the throne isn't positive, but she does seem to listen to advice and whilst she isn't perfect she does show compassion too, which there isn't a boat load of in the series.


              • #8
                Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                Agh I wish I'd just watched this too as I'm not sure of the details of what has happened at different points, but I think Daenerys is a really strong character but one who often acts rashly. I've liked her and mildly disliked her at varying points. I've only read the first book (fully intend to continue reading the rest eventually), but I think her choices/actions make more sense when you see her as the very young girl she is in the book. Socially her age isn't looked on the same as it is in our social structures, and there are other strong young leaders (as well as foolish ones), but even with the tough experiences she has had in her life she is still limited in experience for making a lot of the decisions she does and for understanding the negative fallouts/potentials. I think her fixation on the throne isn't positive, but she does seem to listen to advice and whilst she isn't perfect she does show compassion too, which there isn't a boat load of in the series.
                Agree with everything you say Stoney. I like that she (now) has two advisers who give differing advice, and she decides what to do. She listens to others, and learns from her experiences. She's not afraid of taking power and leading, yet when we first saw her she seemed quite weak. I like the character growth. I don't think she's done anything that I completely disagree with, and I've never once disliked her, which I can't say about any other character (except maybe Arya??)