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  • Lucifer

    Is anyone else apart from TriBel and me watching this show? I am completely mesmerized. Must be Lucifer's mojo-thingy doing it's work.

    flow
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  • #2
    Originally posted by flow View Post
    Is anyone else apart from TriBel and me watching this show? I am completely mesmerized. Must be Lucifer's mojo-thingy doing it's work.

    flow
    Probably not! I'm on my fourth re-watch since the beginning of May. In fact, I even "Google Scholared" it to see if there were papers on it (very little - I think I'll write one).

    Gaiman seems to be very popular at the moment (and I know Lucifer's a very loose adaptation of his creation). Apparently, Netflix are doing The Sandman.
    Last edited by TriBel; 04-07-19, 04:06 PM.
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    • #3
      I've watched it. It's okay but I don't think it's that deep. I'm blaming Tribel's mojo-thingy in taking over Flow.


      “I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

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      • #4
        Originally posted by GoSpuffy View Post
        I've watched it. It's okay but I don't think it's that deep. I'm blaming Tribel's mojo-thingy in taking over Flow.
        Ha...Stuart Heritage is quite scathing about it in The Guardian but (surprisingly) there's support for it BTL. I like it it's funny in parts; Ellis is great in the role and I like the ensemble cast.

        Highest rated comment on The Guardian:

        If you're tired of Tom Ellis chewing scenery, you're tired of life.
        I'd say that's about right!

        - - - Updated - - -

        flow: In the episode Mrs and Mr Mazikeen Smith they mention Gaudium. Pierce has a file on someone with the same name, suggesting he/she is a celestial being. What do you reckon to it being either El or Trixie?
        Last edited by TriBel; 04-07-19, 06:56 PM.
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        • #5
          Oh, fascinating question. I don’t think it’s Ella. Yes, she was able to see the light of the goddess but she is practically the only character who has faith. That’s why I think she would be too obvious a choice. Trixie is an entirely different thing. It could be the explanation why Amenedial blessed Penelope. The blessing went through Chloe to Trixie. It would explain why Cloe is immune to celestial mojo. It’s part of her parenting - lol. It could also be the reason why Trixie instantly connected with Lucifer. And just think of her with tiny Angel wings. Wouldn’t that be cute?

          flow

          - - - Updated - - -

          GoSpuffy, have you watched the entire series? All four seasons?

          flow
          Last edited by flow; 05-07-19, 08:35 AM.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by GoSpuffy View Post
            I've watched it. It's okay but I don't think it's that deep. I'm blaming Tribel's mojo-thingy in taking over Flow.
            I tried watching a few episodes, but I found It quite predictable and rather dull sadly. Doesn't help that I really don't like the lead either sadly.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Silver1 View Post
              I tried watching a few episodes, but I found It quite predictable and rather dull sadly. Doesn't help that I really don't like the lead either sadly.
              That was my initial response when it first came out (I only watched the first episode). My son didn't watch it "cos the Devil's gay" (which also bothered me). Neither's particularly true. The "love aspect's" predictable (but it often is - Bangle was). However, there's no deliberate "shipping wars" - nothing to create antagonistic lovetriangles (except on a temporary basis). What I like about it is, everything BtVS took as "deep", Lucifer brings to the surface (fitting then that it takes place in LA and Vegas). So, whereas BtVS (and other programmes) allude to the equation Oedipus=detective with demons, Lucifer's an actual detective, an actual devil/angel and has a therapist.

              Genderwise - it's to Ellis' credit that Lucifer's as camp as corn cob curtains and yet he has pansexual appeal. I like that Ella is a scientist who believes in God and has useless brothers. She also has a "criminal" past she's upfront about and her (useful) criminality is matrilinear.

              It's also funny.

              flow:

              You need to watch S4.

              They make a couple of remarks in S3 - one of which is that El's a "miracle-worker". Trixie = Beatrice = Dante's Inferno (there's an episode where Lucifer remarks "someone's read Dante's Inferno").

              Oh - and I found the scripts but they're not as detailed as the BtVS scripts. https://www.springfieldspringfield.c...episode=s01e00
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              • #8
                I've tried watching selected episodes from all the seasons so far, and It's obviously not for me. I find the lead charisma free and the plots to be soooo predictable sadly.

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                • #9
                  I've watched all 4 seasons. I'll watch the last when it's released. It's okay but just okay. I find Decker boring and undeserving of Lucifer's love. And the writing, the story telling, is just standard and surface-y. It has no layers or depth to it. And Lucifer is just okay looking. Nice body and charismatic and good singing voice but I don't find him that handsome or appealing. Not in the way TriBel is going all googley eyed anyway.


                  “I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

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                  • #10
                    I'm not googley-eyed. I think Ellis is attractive and sometimes Lucifer's attractive but often, I find him incredibly embarrassing and cringe worthy. As for surface-y - it's meant to be. Postmodernism's all surface and spectacle - that's it's aesthetic. The text knows this - it's why his "devil face" is significant. From this perspective, I think it's quite clever.
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                    • #11
                      Hmmmm. It's quite possible that I'm the one who is all surfacey. I've learned so much reading other people's take on BtVS. Maybe the big difference for me is with Buffy I care so much, for who hurts her, who she loves, who loves her, her Mum and sister, who lets her down, for everything. This hooks me in and makes me want to know more and feel more. Lucifer just doesn't inspire that level of caring within me. He's entertaining but I don't feel for him the way I feel for Buffy.


                      “I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

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                      • #12
                        But that’s what he is mainly aiming for. He wants to entertain. The depth is not there and that’s why I don’t feel as deeply about the show as I feel for BtVS. But they do a very good job of using humor as a substitute for the lack of depth and they don’t claim to be more sophisticated than they are. They have a very lighthearted approach at their own show and they are not afraid to make fun of themselves. What intrigues me apart from Lucifers good looks ...err... good singing and the wittiness are his genuine feelings for Chloe and his growth. The last suffers a lot of throwback.


                        Chloe isn’t Buffy and she isn’t the lead. But she is sassy and I can relate to her.

                        flow
                        Last edited by flow; 06-07-19, 09:10 AM.
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                        • #13
                          Lucifer's full of flaws. I can't really take it seriously as a police procedural - simply because there's little in the way of procedure. I'm pretty sure it's full of plot holes. I've just realised, I'm not even sure where Amenadiel lives! It's very knowing about LA and the LA lifestyle (which is kinda ironic because the first two seasons were filmed in Canada) and much of it is about performance and theatricality. When Lucifer first arrives, he's dressed like Travolta in SNF. It's about a search for authenticity in a place that's built its name on illusion. It's about narcissism and desire. It's kinda interesting in the sense that, as far as I can tell, angels are born fully formed and the theories of desire I'm familiar with place the mother/child relationship at the centre. Linda asks whether Angels gifts/abilities shape their personality or whether personality is shaped by the nature of the gift. I kinda like that.

                          The therapy aspect of it interests me - the fact that Linda is both therapist and friend (which shouldn't happen); that Dan takes up "impro" to help him cope with the trauma of divorce. That Amena-dude tries it and finds that impro is not as improvised as the name implies - that certain topics are "off-limits".

                          It's "knowing". It irritates me that "the Penthouse" is constantly referred to as "the Penthouse" until I realised that it's probably intentional. I knew a bit about Guccione and the Penthouse magazine. What I didn't know was this: "The Penthouse logo is a stylized key which incorporates both the Mars and Venus symbols in its design. The magazine's centerfold models are known as Penthouse Pets and customarily wear a distinctive necklace inspired by this logo". Lucifer's the Morningstar - which is Venus. He also (allegedly) initiated the war between Heaven and Hell. Amena-dude, God's "champion" wears a distinctive necklace (and Lucifer persists in feminising him by referring to his robe as a dress) - it's the pin that holds the flaming sword together (the sword that allows Lucifer to create a "vagina" (his words) in the fabric of the world. It was the flaming sword that guarded Eden. I could work with this.

                          I actually don't "feel" for Buffy until S5 - I'm not sure what I feel for Chloe. She is "feisty". In fact, I like the female characters in Lucifer. Lucifer really exasperates me - Chloe's S1 remark "do you know how dickish you sound?" should be a mantra. That Ellis manages to make you (me and flow) sympathize with him despite being totally unlikeable at times is down - I think - to a very nuanced performance (the fact that no-one cares about Lucifer enough to want to murder him is both really funny and incredibly moving). I like the idea that the torture in Hell is - more or less - self induced.

                          So yeah...it's not deep because I think it's writing against the idea of depth but there's much for me to like here. I might just watch it for the 5th time - and actually take notes.
                          Last edited by TriBel; 06-07-19, 10:24 AM.
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                          • #14
                            I was wondering what kind of accent Tom Ellis is speaking. I have read that he is from Wales but I don’t think it influences the way he speaks? I have difficulties distinguishing accents and Spike for example sounds as if he is talking just very very sloppy and slurred. Giles on the other hand sounds very clear and distinct. Tom Ellis sounds a lot like Giles but far more posh and maybe sometimes even old-fashioned when he uses phrases like „it vexes me“. On the other hand he also uses „bloody“ and „Bollocks“ a lot. Are those rather common British swear words?

                            flow
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                            • #15
                              Ellis is from Wales but lived in London. There's little trace of a Welsh accent. He says Lucifer's voice was partly determined by the beats of the speech patterns the writers put in. I also think the early Lucifer "voice" bears a trace of Mike Carey's Lucifer in the Vertigo/DC comics (although comic Lucifer is far more complex). Elllis explains the voice as "Mike Jagger crossed with Noel Coward". Priceless thinks he sounds like Leslie Phillips (she could be right - Phillips represents a sort of upper-class English suaveness from the 50/60/70s - google him). "Bugger, Bloody Hell and Bollocks" are my favourite swear words! In fact, I don't think they even count as swear words any more.

                              To my ear, he often sounds camp - particularly as the series progresses. This kinda fits with his ambiguous sexuality - which I read as "pan-sexualism".

                              Edited to add: there are two "extra" episodes following the S3 finale. In the very last one (E26) we hear a voice but we don't see the character. The voice is Neil Gaiman's - who's credited with creating Lucifer (in The Sandman comics). I think Lucifer sounds a lot like him. I've started to read The Sandman and when we first see Lucifer he looks like Bowie. In the TV pilot, Bowie's Fame is playing when we first see Luci in Lux.
                              Last edited by TriBel; 08-07-19, 09:11 PM.
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