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Joss Sci-Fi Drama The Nevers Ordered at HBO.

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  • HowiMetdaSlayer
    replied
    Wonder if both this & the Buffy reboot will be out in 2020?

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  • flow
    replied
    Characters just keep piling up JW's The Nevers. I have a Potential deja vu.

    https://deadline.com/2019/08/the-nev...st-1202668985/

    flow

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  • HowiMetdaSlayer
    replied
    Sometimes even writers/creators we ♥ don't use enough minorities/LGBT. Sorkin's another example. Clearly not prejudiced (quite the opposite), but think his total count for LGBT main characters on his 4 shows: 0!

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  • Josh
    replied
    Originally posted by Priceless View Post
    I do think they've tried to make the cast pretty diverse, with several non-white actors and at least one gay actor. I think it's partly set in Victorian times so they don't have to deal with all the modern technology or social media. I also think that era is quite interesting and Whedon must see a lot that is still relevant to us today.
    I've seen the cast, it's mostly white. But we will see, won't we? I'll be watching because of Joss. I still believe in his ability to be a great storyteller.

    Leave a comment:


  • Priceless
    replied
    Originally posted by Josh View Post
    These are the same questions I ask about Whedon's career. Whedon has been marked as a problematic white male. I even saw a discussion criticizing The Nevers (and Whedon) for being set in Victorian times which automatically makes the make-up of the cast less diverse.
    I do think they've tried to make the cast pretty diverse, with several non white actors and at least one gay actor. I think it's partly set in Victorian times so they don't have to deal with all the modern technology or social media. I also think that era is quite interesting and Whedon must see a lot that is still relevant to us today.

    Leave a comment:


  • Josh
    replied
    Originally posted by Priceless View Post
    The Nevers podcast, which I haven't listened to yet, is wondering if the allegations made against Joss and his reactions to them, will affect how this new show is received and if it's a success, does that mean Joss is redeemed.
    These are the same questions I ask about Whedon's career. Whedon has been marked as a problematic white male. I even saw a discussion criticizing The Nevers (and Whedon) for being set in Victorian times which automatically makes the make-up of the cast less diverse.

    Leave a comment:


  • Priceless
    replied
    The Nevers podcast, which I haven't listened to yet, is wondering if the allegations made against Joss and his reactions to them, will affect how this new show is received and if it's a success, does that mean Joss is redeemed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Josh
    replied
    I think it's less about the cheating, it's more about him confessing to his wife about using his power with young, impressionable actresses... No? I mean, he said it. And that, with being tied to endless statements about being a feminist is problematic, in the least.

    Leave a comment:


  • TriBel
    replied
    If everyone who cheated wasn't allowed to work, half the world would be sat at home watching daytime tv
    True that..................hang on while I check what's on the other channel.

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  • Silver1
    replied
    Some idiots online behave like Whedon has personally kicked their Cat to death or something. It's beyond anything rational sometimes.

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  • Priceless
    replied
    Originally posted by DanSlayer View Post
    The Mary Sue's had problems against Whedon since at least Age of Ultron because of the Natasha monster thing. Then everything with his ex-wife came out so they just criticize anything he does every time he's brought up.
    I totally understand, even sympathise, with people having issues with Whedon. But this article is just so bitter and resentful, like Whedon has somehow lost the right to work because he's transgressed. If everyone who cheated wasn't allowed to work, half the world would be sat at home watching daytime tv

    Leave a comment:


  • DanSlayer
    replied
    The Mary Sue's had problems against Whedon since at least Age of Ultron because of the Natasha monster thing. Then everything with his ex-wife came out so they just criticize anything he does every time he's brought up.

    Leave a comment:


  • TriBel
    replied
    @Priceless

    I was teaching a module on Jack the Ripper once (don't ask...someone has to do it and it seemed like a good idea at the time ) and I read a suggestion for a screenplay - basically the Ripper disappears because he's been killed by the Bryant & May Match Girls. https://www.casebook.org/dissertatio...epetition.html

    The point Teal's making is that the Ripper story is always told as a male fantasy. We don't know what happened, why he disappeared, so why can't it be told as a female fantasy? Why can't women play an active role in his demise?

    "There are many ways of telling this story, but the movie productions most frequently return to the master criminal/master detective formula, ignoring the women in the story at best, or at worst, treating them like extras, sides of beef, or blockages in the narrative. Sherlock Holmes's encounter with Katherine Eddowes' corpse on the slab in Murder by Decree is spectacularly memorable in this respect. Playing Holmes, actor Christopher Plummer remarks: "I feel she'll be more help to us now than when she was alive.".

    I'm hoping for something similar from to Teal's screenplay from Whedon (if I get it, I might even stop watching Lucifer to watch The Nevers - though Swann's no Tom Ellis )

    ETA - I'd like to see this sort of reasoning (it's from Teal).

    Some might say "five women died in this historic moment" and one can't change that in the narrative. No, of course not. But dying was not the only activity women engaged in during this time. Women did not simply enter the action to die. And they weren't all prostitutes. There were over 1200 known prostitutes in the Whitechapel neighborhood at this time, but we do know that many women had to prostitute themselves to supplement their poor wages from sweated labor. They were working other jobs. True, there were no female police, nor were there any female judges at the time. However, there were women working as touts, midwives and doctors, coal haulers, dust women, sackwomen who could be identified by their yellowed, oily hands, shop assistants, ditch diggers, milk deliverers, maids, chars, and factory hands. Far from being sheltered, many women worked out in the streets all day and missed nothing. Working in men's clothes some were indistinguishable from the men beside them (Hiley). Women were everywhere at this time, even in the clattering offices of news agencies and printing presses. Even if they didn't take suspects into custody and do the questioning, they were frequently the ones speaking with the police and sometimes they were the ones brought in for brawling and defending family members. Women were also running for positions on the London School Board. Though the entertainment world has chosen to focus on a very gendered version of the action, the action could be much more inclusive . One might say it must be told from a man's point of view because men were in charge. But who actually saw the Ripper? The female victims. Who "saw" the Ripper in strangers in the street and shadows in their bedrooms? Millions of other women. If women were indeed the only people who actually saw the real Ripper and the only people who feared his attacks, couldn't the story be told from a woman's point of view? Isn't this a woman's story? Sometimes the male domination of this story gets to the point of suffocating it. These days it seems to me that this entertainment construction does the Ripper's work again, draining the vitality from the women who could be agents in the tale. The Male Vs. Male construct reappears with such regularity that it seems to be reinforcing the old idea that women had to be guided, governed and covered. Smothered. Put down. If you poison people long enough with a negative idea about themselves, they will eventually believe it. The constant reemergence of this male-male drama feels like a dangerous, carefully administered, sinister corrective, a toxin. The prevalence of this narrative strategy is a toxic repetition.
    Last edited by TriBel; 01-08-19, 10:18 AM.

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  • Priceless
    replied
    Originally posted by TriBel View Post
    "We’re not necessarily big fans of Joss Whedon..." - they could have stopped there!

    Priceless:



    Yup...me too. Talk about reverse psychology.

    What I want to know is - WHY are these women damaged? If it's something to do with being unable to achieve their full potential as women because of social conditions, then I'm fully behind it (particularly if he draws parallels between then and now - which I think he may well do. The "Never"s has an ominous ring to it).

    Hugo Swann - he's got Marsters' ears and cheekbones.
    I'll know this show is working if they can make Norton attractive to me

    The MarySue article is so obnoxious I can't bring myself to agree with any of it. I am sure The Nevers, though set in Victorian England, will be a comment on modern times. Isn't all drama about the time it was made, rather than the time it was set. It will be a caustic comment on Trumps America and it's effect on women in particular. Maybe Whedon sees a link between the Victorian era and modern American (and UK) politics?

    Leave a comment:


  • TriBel
    replied
    "We’re not necessarily big fans of Joss Whedon..." - they could have stopped there!

    Priceless:

    Overall, this article has made me like the concept more than I originally did
    Yup...me too. Talk about reverse psychology.

    What I want to know is - WHY are these women damaged? If it's something to do with being unable to achieve their full potential as women because of social conditions, then I'm fully behind it (particularly if he draws parallels between then and now - which I think he may well do. The "Never"s has an ominous ring to it).

    Hugo Swann - he's got Marsters' ears and cheekbones.

    Leave a comment:

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