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  • #46
    Originally posted by PointMan View Post
    Speaking of pointless whining, you misspelled whining.
    But I correctly spelled whinging

    I think it's fair to speak about his other works and how they stack up to The Avengers, especially when I see things in that movie that have been sorely lacking from some of his other works.
    It's a hijacked thread. I didn't read back to see who hijacked it, nor do I care. This is probably the best work he's done, frankly.

    By the way, for box office nerds, they are now calling that this movie will have a three day open in excess of $200 million, easily mudstomping the previous records. It was a top 5 or 6 all time three day open after Saturday.

    EDIT: I don't disagree with the idea that "Buffy" would be helped, not hurt, by the Scooby Gang having been treated more as an Avengers like ensemble.
    Last edited by KingofCretins; 06-05-12, 09:25 PM.
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    • #47
      Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
      You're comparing apples and oranges. With the Avengers Joss was tasked with writing for a group of characters who were all individual stars in their own right. The whole idea behind the movie was to take these individual super heroes (nearly all whom have started as the leads of their own blockbuster movies) and put them together. It was a movie full of protagonists. With BtVS he had ONE lead to worry about -- Buffy -- and the ensemble cast were just supporting their protagonist. It creates an entirely different dynamic.
      Really? I don't recall Agent Coulson being one of the Avengers and yet he got a very good shake in the movie.

      I think ensemble pieces work much better than the other kind of stories anyways.
      “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.” -- Albert Einstein

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      • #48
        Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
        Also... holy crap, stay to the end of the credits. So worth it.
        Are you talking about this? That was not at the end of the credits I saw, but I guess it's not in the European version. I stayed to the end of the credits because I always do.

        It always annoys me when everyone jumps and goes straight out of the cinema when the credits start rolling. Which 90% of the people did this time, too, so they missed the scene with...whoever that was. Unfortunately, the idiots in the cinema turned on the lights as soon as the credits started to roll, so I couldn't quite make out what was on screen. All I could make out is that there were some aliens, and then... a person with a very blue eye turned around? That's all I could make out of what he looked like. The link above says it's Thanos, Bringer of Death (not that I would recognize him anyway, since I'm not a comic reader).

        Anyway, I just got back from the cinema. The movie was just as I expected, great characterizations and cracking dialogue and very funny; people were laughing a lot (even when the translation wasn't the best, which admittedly happened just once or twice).

        One thing that I wish they explained better is how Bruce was suddenly able to control Hulk, when he hadn't earlier in the movie.

        Also, the credits said Alexis Denisof played "The Other"? Who was he? Was he the other guy in that scene?

        Here's something fun: Television Without Pity compares The Avengers characters to characters from Joss' other works. Some of the explanations are really funny, particularly the one for Loki, even if you don't dislike the character that they chose as his counterpart the way that many people do.
        Last edited by TimeTravellingBunny; 06-05-12, 11:33 PM.
        You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
          Also, the credits said Alexis Denisof played "The Other"? Who was he? Was he the other guy in that scene?
          Yeah, I think he was the weird guy you see talking to Loki in that other dimension as well as the one with Thanos after the credits.

          Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
          Here's something fun: Television Without Pity compares The Avengers characters to characters from Joss' other works. Some of the explanations are really funny, particularly the one for Loki, even if you don't dislike the character that they chose as his counterpart the way that many people do.
          Wow, I actually disagree with... most of their comparisons. I think they would have been better off matching personalities instead of powers.
          “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.” -- Albert Einstein

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          • #50
            Originally posted by PointMan View Post
            Wow, I actually disagree with... most of their comparisons. I think they would have been better off matching personalities instead of powers.
            Well, they did with Loki. And Tony Stark.

            On the other hand, Buffy and Captain America are clearly nothing alike in personality, neither are Thor and Illyria, but how would you really match personalities? I can't think of anyone in any of Joss's shows who's like Captain America in personality. Even though Joss joked recently that it's Captain Hammer.

            (Black Widow would be better matched with Echo than River, though.)
            Last edited by TimeTravellingBunny; 06-05-12, 11:41 PM.
            You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
              Are you talking about this? That was not at the end of the credits I saw, but I guess it's not in the European version. I stayed to the end of the credits because I always do.
              Not sure why they didn't give that to the audience outside the US. It's great. If you can measure performance in such a scene, I think Hemsworth and Johansson are best. My only thought was... think they got comped?

              It always annoys me when everyone jumps and goes straight out of the cinema when the credits start rolling. Which 90% of the people did this time, too, so they missed the scene with...whoever that was. Unfortunately, the idiots in the cinema turned on the lights as soon as the credits started to roll, so I couldn't quite make out what was on screen. All I could make out is that there were some aliens, and then... a person with a very blue eye turned around? That's all I could make out of what he looked like. The link above says it's Thanos, Bringer of Death (not that I would recognize him anyway, since I'm not a comic reader).
              I'm okay with people leaving shortly into the credits. I don't get people *ever* leaving a Marvel flick early, especially when people (aka me) are actually telling them that there are two more scenes during the credits.

              I didn't recognize Thanos, frankly, so that was kinda wasted on me.

              On the other hand, Buffy and Captain America are clearly nothing alike in personality, neither are Thor and Illyria, but how would you really match personalities? I can't think of anyone in any of Joss's shows who's like Captain America in personality. Even though Joss joked recently that it's Captain Hammer.

              (Black Widow would be better matched with Echo than River, though.)
              The fact that Joss said that is why I'm glad that he didn't have a total and free hand with these characters. I actually thought, during the exchange between Coulson and Cap about people wanting "old fashioned", that Joss must have had to drink a whole bottle of maalox just to get through that scene.

              I actually think the entire "Avengers"-matching thing was a bad idea, because I don't think Joss would have come up with any of these characters on his own other than maybe Tony Stark and Natasha. They aren't analogs for his characters nor were they contorted into being expys for his characters.
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              • #52
                Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                I actually think the entire "Avengers"-matching thing was a bad idea, because I don't think Joss would have come up with any of these characters on his own other than maybe Tony Stark and Natasha. They aren't analogs for his characters nor were they contorted into being expys for his characters.
                Eh, it's obviously just for fun and to make a few jokes. I doubt that anyone is taking it seriously as a study of Joss' work.
                You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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                • #53
                  I didn't recognize Thanos, frankly, so that was kinda wasted on me.
                  Just watched that bit on youtube and I recognised the character the moment I saw that chin. My old comic book gal heart skipped a beat at that point.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
                    Eh, it's obviously just for fun and to make a few jokes. I doubt that anyone is taking it seriously as a study of Joss' work.
                    It's hard to tell, especially amongst the truly devout (and on TWOP, you are) -- I read that bit before I saw the movie and was thinking "have they seen any of the films that set up this movie?"

                    Originally posted by sueworld View Post
                    Just watched that bit on youtube and I recognised the character the moment I saw that chin. My old comic book gal heart skipped a beat at that point.
                    I was always more of a DC guy, so my first thought was actually Darkseid, which is an oddly appropriate mistake to make. I was thrown off because I felt sure that Joss was going to reclaim Galactus from pink cloud status.
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                    • #55
                      Oh don't remind me about that bloody cloud. God that was so lame.

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                      • #56
                        Reading through the thread...

                        Originally posted by Lyri View Post
                        There was one moment - and I won't spoil it - where I was watching, and it was just completely Joss and harked back to arguably one of the most well-liked Joss episodes of BtVS. It was a nice little moment for me.
                        Now I have to hang my head in shame... Which moment do you mean?

                        Originally posted by PointMan View Post
                        I think Cap and agent Coulson were my two favorite characters. I saw aspects of Xander in both of them, so that probably has something to do with it.
                        Which aspect of Xander did you see in Captain America? They don't seem similar at all. If I try to find a character in a Joss's show that's anything like him, it'd be season 4 Riley, with the whole 'strait-laced, traditional, wholesome hero' thing.

                        For favorite characters... hm, I'd probably go with Black Widow, Bruce/Hulk and Tony/Iron Man. Nick Fury has a great moment when he says
                        Spoiler:
                        "It's a stupid-ass order and we'll ignore it!"
                        But every character really got its due, I thought Hawkeye had really interesting scenes with Natasha. I'd want to watch the prequel with the two of them.
                        Last edited by TimeTravellingBunny; 07-05-12, 12:44 AM.
                        You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post


                          Now I have to hang my head in shame... Which moment do you mean?
                          Spoiler:
                          When Loki touches the scepter to Stark's chest and nothing happens. He steps back, looks at it, gives it a little shake and says something like 'that usually works'. It totally reminded me of the Xander/Willow scene with the cross in 'Dopplegangland.'
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                          • #58
                            If I forced myself to go looking for Whedon characters in this movie, in a search for the Xander of it, I'd probably stop with Fury and/or Coulson. If I was looking specifically within the six titular Avengers, I'd probably go with Thor, personality wise. The fact that he still wanted Loki to come home, to be family again.
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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
                              Which aspect of Xander did you see in Captain America? They don't seem similar at all. If I try to find a character in a Joss's show that's anything like him, it'd be season 4 Riley, with the whole 'strait-laced, traditional, wholesome hero' thing.
                              I see a certain amount of Xander in Captain America. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he was inspired by Cap but I believe there are similarities. Both are stalwart heroes without the kind of darkness that alot of other heroes have. Both strike me as being more on the conservative side of things. And both have limits to how far they are willing to go. It's not a perfect fit or anything mind you.

                              I think the similarities between Xander and Coulson are obvious. I could totally see him geeking out about Captain America and asking for his autograph. And at the same time I could totally see him facing off against a god to try and protect those he cares about.

                              King: Xander doesn't really strike me as being like Nick Fury. He isn't really the leader very often and I think Fury is much more willing to play dirty in order to win.
                              “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.” -- Albert Einstein

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by PointMan View Post
                                I see a certain amount of Xander in Captain America. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying he was inspired by Cap but I believe there are similarities. Both are stalwart heroes without the kind of darkness that alot of other heroes have. Both strike me as being more on the conservative side of things.
                                Really? That doesn't sound like Xander to me at all, it sounds like Riley.

                                Xander has as much darkness as most of the human characters on BtVS (and as a vampire, as much as most vampires do), he isn't squeaky clean and strait-laced, he jokes and quips and makes geeky references a lot, and I don't see how he's shown to be conservative (unless disliking vampires counts as such)?
                                Last edited by TimeTravellingBunny; 07-05-12, 01:54 AM.
                                You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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