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Who Did Spike Love?

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  • Who Did Spike Love?

    Again, same concept as past threads. Who did Spike love?
    143
    Angel
    9.79%
    14
    Buffy
    20.28%
    29
    Drusilla
    19.58%
    28
    Darla
    0.00%
    0
    Willow
    0.00%
    0
    Fred
    11.89%
    17
    Anya
    0.00%
    0
    Cecily
    4.90%
    7
    Xander
    0.00%
    0
    Dawn
    14.69%
    21
    Wesley
    0.00%
    0
    Gunn
    0.00%
    0
    His Mother- Anne
    18.88%
    27
    Harmony
    0.00%
    0
    Giles
    0.00%
    0
    Morgan
    0.00%
    0

  • #2
    I couldn't decide tbh, I put yes to Angel because I think there is/was a familial loyalty/love there in the unconditional way that you have for family but I could easily accept anyone choosing to ignore the Angel option because I don't think there is anything outside of a familial connection so if you don't accept a familial unconditional type of love then I don't think he does/did 'love' Angel and I'm really thinking presoul (Angel's).

    Buffy and Dru, no question at all.

    Not Cecily because that was William's infatuation (I don't think it was even love as he didn't know her at all and for that he got a harsh lesson). There was never shown to be residual notions towards her from Spike. But Spike obviously did still love his mum because he wanted to 'save' her.

    Fred and Dawn I teetered with. I voted yes for Dawn and actually I am not sure that it wasn't just a great fondness, in hindsight to my voting I probably would have not selected her. Equally with Fred, a great fondness but nothing to the strength of love. These two are probably pretty much equal in Spike's affection, not at the level of love but at a strength of brotherly affection that exceeds whatever he felt towards any of the other remaining people, who I don't think he felt anything noteworthy for at all.

    EDIT:I am intrigued that such a high portion of people don't think he felt familial love towards Angel, ever. The thread is looking at who 'did' Spike love so he doesn't still have to have that level of care. I think Spike's brotherly/familial connection with Angel these days is mostly a loyalty based thing rather than loving but as the Scourge era, when Angel was his 'yoda', he probably felt brotherly love I think. Perhaps there was just some idolising, as I said I could easily have voted no on Angel because I don't think there is affection there from Spike but the family bond has been very strong in the past which is why some brotherly familial loyalty remains, bolstered now by the sense of being 'unique' together.

    Comment


    • #3
      I was very absent minded yesterday. I didn't include Joyce which I should have (even though *I* don't think Spike loved Joyce). And I accidentally didn't vote for Anne.

      Buffy and Dru were the easy choices and Anne would have been an easier choice if I looked at the poll closely. I agree with Stoney that there's a familial bond between Spike and Angel- even if neither really harbor much affection for the other and what affection they do have is frequently overshadowed by dislike, disrespect and rivalry.

      I feel strongly that Spike doesn't love Dawn- for similar reasons why I don't think Giles loved Dawn. In my books, if you love someone, you don't let them drop out of your life that easily. It was actually easier to buy that Spike left Fred because at least Fred seemed important to Spike from the beginning of their relationship to their death but it was so short and superficial that their relationship only ended up amounting to fondness to me.

      Comment


      • #4
        I didn't do this poll, as I consider it redundant to to the previous poll if any vampires can love without a soul--other than the mayhem and pain they cause. And, I don’t know how to answer that when it comes to Spike. Spike's list, with a soul, would include the whole world with time as irrelevant, in his compassion and peace, that even made him laugh at the edge of death for this understanding in 'Chosen.'

        He should have been transfigured to a human man, in "Chosen," had that necklace not been a soul trap. He "got it" the “I am” --true, pure, infinite, and absolute love, at least mythically.

        W&H's magic and his own need to be "physical," (to have effect upon reality), as he remembered himself to be or wanted to be--IIRC--made him a new vampire body, rather than the "shanshu" body he should have won from Chosen. As I said, at least according to myth.

        I also believe that Twilight, at the cost of the "world," to mean the end of Dawn, (and Connor) is the "great tragedy," since Buffy's story was the journey of growing up, since all the adults tend to "disappear" into this otherly plane of "disuse" of magic e.g. Fray, or Buffy is merely an avatar, within the "darkness"/world of the psyche, searching out the psyche and trying to make sense of it in connection to observation/senses of the world outside her skin, within Dawn, the actual "becoming" adult, as the "real person."

        Xander is Joss is real, hence never boogity, and naturally he would be joined to his avatar. IMO.

        This means de facto Connor is also Angel's shanshu. IMO, if Connor, Xander, Dawn are not in some otherly plane, with visitation privileges to Buffyworld, as long as she lives. The world has to die, or Buffy does, as the overarching metaphor is death.

        My real wish is in Faith and Spike discovering that their purpose is in the protection of children, and I think we have seen some signs of this as "practice," as the eunuch Angel has them and these two remain the "avatars," as they both are “shadow side” to the main protagonists and should be immortal (and Spike, I think, wants/likes to be). I think this because Joss’s stories find source only in the darkness and has very little dramatically to say about the light, other than to leave the defintion of love “As you like it.”

        I happen to like the “Chosen” kind of love, but I don’t believe you have to “die, die” to have it’s understanding, inclusive of the reality that life is to make mistakes, learn, grow, and make more, even as death is only the potential to change shape (conservation of mass/energy). I think Joss is so concerned with loss of identity, which I am not, even in empathy with everything having its experience, his stories of searching the darkness really are all about “who are you.” And that requires the "light." Period.

        HUGS!
        sybil

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Dipstick View Post
          I was very absent minded yesterday. I didn't include Joyce which I should have (even though *I* don't think Spike loved Joyce). And I accidentally didn't vote for Anne.
          I think as with Dawn and Fred, Spike had a great fondness for Joyce, a real soft spot for the maternal figure but I would never have said he loves her.



          EDIT: I don't agree that a soulless creature can't love personally but surely it seems ridiculous to vote that Spike didn't/doesn't love Buffy. What, even souled?!.

          Even if you dismiss his feelings whilst soulless saying no to Spike loving Buffy full stop seems to be implying that he is fundamentally incapable of love and/or doesn't know his own mind at all, which is farce imo and comes across as a shipping/character dislike to me.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Stoney View Post
            I couldn't decide tbh, I put yes to Angel because I think there is/was a familial loyalty/love there in the unconditional way that you have for family but I could easily accept anyone choosing to ignore the Angel option because I don't think there is anything outside of a familial connection so if you don't accept a familial unconditional type of love then I don't think he does/did 'love' Angel and I'm really thinking presoul (Angel's).

            Buffy and Dru, no question at all.

            Not Cecily because that was William's infatuation (I don't think it was even love as he didn't know her at all and for that he got a harsh lesson). There was never shown to be residual notions towards her from Spike. But Spike obviously did still love his mum because he wanted to 'save' her.

            Fred and Dawn I teetered with. I voted yes for Dawn and actually I am not sure that it wasn't just a great fondness, in hindsight to my voting I probably would have not selected her. Equally with Fred, a great fondness but nothing to the strength of love. These two are probably pretty much equal in Spike's affection, not at the level of love but at a strength of brotherly affection that exceeds whatever he felt towards any of the other remaining people, who I don't think he felt anything noteworthy for at all.
            I agree with most of that, but I think his feelings for Dawn were stronger than those for Fred, so I picked Dawn but not Fred. Or maybe it's just that I was more convinced by BtVS season 5 (and some scattered moments in season 6) that he genuinely loved Dawn as a little sister, than I was by AtS season 5, which exaggerated everyone's feelings for Fred when she was dying and after she died. Well, not Wesley's and Gunn's, they did love her, but I'm not even sure Angel loved Fred as much as they made it seem after her death. In Spike's case, it just seemed like a nice friendship that was starting to develop, but they knew each other for a very short time.

            I wish Joyce was on the list since she's one of the people he had some real affection and liking for, though I agree that I wouldn't call it love, either; he only talked to her a few times, after all.
            You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

            Comment


            • #7
              I voted Dawn and Fred (and of course Buffy, Dru and Ane). I think he loved them at some point... maybe it was deep fondness, but I find difficult to make a distinction.

              I thik Ilyria should be among the options. (AtS and AAtF spoilers ahead).

              Spoiler:
              I know most of their relationship happened in the IDW comics, and most people don't care much about them. But even if only the TV show is taken into consideration, I think their interaction had at least the same relevance as the ones with Wesley and Gunn.
              Still, I don't know if I would vote for her, but I think she should be included.

              Comment


              • #8
                Illyria carried the residual of Fred to Spike and that was why he was around her and trying to protect her, so personally I would consider any emotional attachment to have nothing to do with 'Illyria' and still be about Fred anyway.

                Comment


                • #9
                  My choices:

                  * His loving Drusilla and Buffy is canon.


                  *The “Lies My Parents Told Me” (7.17) flashback strongly indicates that he loved Anne Pratt (his mother).


                  * Unless he was lying to Buffy in “Fool For Love” (5.07), he seems to have loved Cecily Underwood.


                  * Angel: he was BFFs with him for 18 years and still seemed to love him in 1945; after that, it’s ambiguous but not much from 1998 and after suggests that Spike still loves Angel.


                  * Fred: “Hellbound” (A 5.04). While he may have done such a thing for Buffy or Drusilla (his mother’s already dead), it’s unlikely he’d have done such a thing for anyone else but these three. If the IDW AtF stuff is canon, that’s more evidence.


                  * Joyce: Spike loved Joyce even if it’s only because she’s Buffy’s mother and she reminds him of Anne Pratt (his human mother).

                  ________________

                  Others’ choices and/or opinions:

                  He certainly doesn’t love Angel unconditionally. Spike was going to have the Judge burn Angel to dust. Spike didn’t love Angel when
                  Spoiler:
                  Angel was AngelTwilight and TwilightAngel.
                  Also, Spike and Dru left Angel and Darla. Spike in “Lovers Walk” (3.08) was going to give Angel leprosy. And Spike even in 2003-4 was still outraged that Angel ever had sex with Dru again after she had sired Spike.

                  Anyway, the only unconditional love in the Buffyverse that I can currently think of is the Master’s love of Darla and maybe Willow’s love of Tara.

                  Comment

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