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  • Rumors & Theories you had about the shows before the reveal

    Do you remember what rumors and theories that were popular at the time of either show's lifespan? Basically whatever theories you had or whatever rumors were popular at the time about Buffy and Angel concerning the plot, characters, etc. I remember as early as Season 4 I had theories and had heard some rumors that never quite came to fruition or just didn't happen the way people expected.

    Btvs Season 4 -

    the character of Tara, the way she hid the dust under her bed instead of actually going through with Willow's spell (reason was later revealed in Season "Family"), a lot of my friends who watched the show speculated that she might not be bad like "up to no good", but did what she did because she didn't want Willow getting hurt or killed while tracking a demon.

    I also remember reading that Veruca was supposedly going to have killed Willow, and Oz would have left (after killing Veruca) because of the guilt. I also read that Oz was going to return and compete for Willow with Tara or turn evil.

    Angel Season 1 -
    I remember reading a rumor online (around the time of Hero/Destiny) that said that the season ended on a cliffhanger with Doyle walking in on Angel, Cordelia and Wesley in the office and everyone was supposed to be shocked and he was saying something like "so did you miss me?"


    Btvs Season 5 -

    The season with most rumors from what I remember.

    Dawn - I theorized that Dawn was at first not who she appeared to be (before the reveal a few episodes later), I figured either that she was an evil spirit or demon that had swapped places with her and at some point the real Dawn would show up and confront her imposter.

    Another theory was that Dawn was an extension of Glory, and that the "key" was just a metaphor for finding her other half or becoming whole again. I had theorized that Dawn may have been a mischievous, less evil but more childish half of Glory that somehow got split off. (before the reveal of course)

    One last theory about Dawn, I remember some people saying that up until now (S5) she was living with Hank and that she winds up living (permanently) with Joyce is because his new g/f did not want kids.

    Ben & Glory - I theorized that he was a rival demon/powerful being (before we learned that Glory was in fact a Hell God). When Dreg approached Ben in his car at the end of "Listening to Fear", and he mentioned cleaning up Glory's messes all of his life I suspected that Ben was either trapped on earth with Glory or had followed her intentionally to prevent her from doing whatever it was that she was wanted to do.

    I had also wondered if maybe they were brother and sister, with Ben playing the role of big brother cleaning up after little sister Glory's messes.

    Going back to the Dawn = the Key theory (pre-reveal) I wondered if maybe Ben was trying to prevent Glory and Dawn from merging and becoming whole again (again going off of that Dawn is Glory's separated other half).

    Angel Season 2 -

    Can't remember too many from here, I think I remember reading somewhere that Gunn was either supposed to be killed off or not join AI after saving Fred.

    Btvs Season 6 -

    Some of the rumors I remember are that Xander and not Tara (was supposed to have been shot - possibly killed), but was changed because of the emotional intensity of the relationship.

    Angel season 3 -

    I remember reading rumors and listening to friends who suspected that Justine may actually have been a "suppressed slayer" or an 'inactive', because even if Buffy died Faith was still alive Justine still would not have been activated - however she housed lots of potential and really, really hated vampires - and so I think that is where the majority of the rumors came from.

    Btvs Season 7 -

    I remember before the First Evil revealed itself that Spike was supposed to be the big bad of the series again, because all of these crazy apparitions he was seeing were hallucinations driving him towards killing Buffy and the Scoobies.

    Angel Season 4 -

    Cordelia - She was suddenly evil for some reason, many just suspected that she was possessed by some kind of evil power. I remember reading theories ranging from the culprits being Chip the demon to Wolfram & Hart.

    The reason for her evil turn, it had shown her in the higher plane being bored and wished to be back on earth with Angel and everyone. I remember a few peers of mine speculating that Cordelia could have been 'corrupted' somehow by being among the powers that be, that their knowledge and influence somehow corrupted her (some people theorized that it was Doyle manipulating her - though I don't think they were aware that the actor had died).

    Darla's ghost/apparition was the work of the First Evil, so as to not have Jasmine/Evil Cordelia interfere with its plans.
    Conner was supposed to die somehow, and Cordelia was to have killed Jasmine before fleeing Los Angeles (possibly returning to Sunnydale).


    Angel Season 5 -

    Wesley was supposed to have lived, Gunn was going to be vamped and either dusted by Fred (was supposed to have been a very dramatic sad scene) or escape somehow. Willow was to have been called in to separate Fred from Illyria making them two unique entities (they could in theory still do this in the comics)
    Last edited by Dinza; 02-12-12, 05:07 AM.
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  • #2
    I actually thought they were suggesting that Buffy was going to be the big bad of season 7 after it went through all the big bad characters and ended on her.

    So glad that never came to pass, what a mess that would have been.
    Bonehead, carrot top, shirty & dope
    the nonsensical vocabulary of Buffy and Spike

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    • #3
      During season 2 in the hiatus between,"Killed By Death" and "I Only Have Eyes For You" there were rumors that Angel would stay soulless into season 3 but would lose his hand in the season 2 finale.

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      • #4
        Two most persistent rumors I heard online:

        -- Spike was brought back in season 4 to become Xander's love interest, but Joss had changed his plans because of two factors: Seth Green's departure and Sarah's lobbying Spuffy.

        -- Dawn was supposed to be made of Faith's genetic material, but that storyline was never realized because of Eliza Dushku's inavailability in season 6 and the first half of season 7. That's why Dawn was stealing things, that's why doesn't look like Buffy at all.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
          -- Dawn was supposed to be made of Faith's genetic material, but that storyline was never realized because of Eliza Dushku's inavailability in season 6 and the first half of season 7. That's why Dawn was stealing things, that's why doesn't look like Buffy at all.
          I've never heard this rumour but I did recently read an old interview conducted just before S6 premiered where Joss all but said that the only reason Faith wasn't going to show up was because Eliza was busy being a movie star. To be honest, I had always just assumed that the writers had no plans to bring Faith back until S7 but now I'm just sad thinking about all all the possibilities if Faith had made a cameo in S6
          "The earth is doomed!" - Banner by Nina

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          • #6
            I remember my "Buffy came back wrong" theory that was also meant to explain her real disappointment/depression with the world was that she was... well, that she was the Buffyverse version of Liandra/Fallen Angel before Peter David even started doing that book. I was still relatively new to full time "Buffy" TV fandom and didn't really get Joss at the time, or I'd have known how utterly unlikely that was. But it sounded cool to me at the time!
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            Banner by LRae12

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
              Two most persistent rumors I heard online:

              -- Spike was brought back in season 4 to become Xander's love interest, but Joss had changed his plans because of two factors: Seth Green's departure and Sarah's lobbying Spuffy.

              -- Dawn was supposed to be made of Faith's genetic material, but that storyline was never realized because of Eliza Dushku's inavailability in season 6 and the first half of season 7. That's why Dawn was stealing things, that's why doesn't look like Buffy at all.
              I slightly recall hearing of the Spike/Xander thing, but the Dawn = Faith's sister/clone, etc is news to me and sounds like it could have made for an interesting plot. I'm guessing then "the Key" would have been someone else or something else
              325 posts to go til signature

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Blix View Post
                I slightly recall hearing of the Spike/Xander thing, but the Dawn = Faith's sister/clone, etc is news to me and sounds like it could have made for an interesting plot. I'm guessing then "the Key" would have been someone else or something else
                Lookey what I found on my hard drive...

                Posted at The Stakehouse: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_stakehouse/
                Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 10:08 PM
                Subject: Joss's StakeHouse: Now that shooting has started . . .


                Of course, there is a setup for Dawn becoming the next Slayer based on the
                events of Season 5 and how everything ended up. But no one has ever
                suggested seriously that Dawn is some sort of a clone of Buffy, have they?
                After all, they really don't look that much alike, do they?.

                Buffy's a blond, Dawn is a brunette. They have different temperaments and
                personalities. A lot of last season was spent showing how Dawn is much more
                of a problem child, kind of tending toward the wild and untamed side, than
                Buffy ever was. They seem like two completely different people, don't they?
                If the monks intended Dawn to be a clone of Buffy, then either they screwed
                up somehow or Casting deserves a big WAP. That is, assuming the monks
                intended Dawn to be a clone of Buffy and not something else entirely.

                So there are still some missing pieces of the puzzle that have to be filled
                in. You've got that Summers blood thing that was said by Buffy, but then
                again, neither metaphysics nor biology have ever been her strong suits, have
                they? Can you folks remember where she got that idea?

                Blood of the Slayer.

                Ever get the feeling that something is just staring you in the face and
                you're not seeing it? There are some numbers that just don't add up the way
                they seem to have added up before that may be pointing everyone in a
                completely different direction, but no one is receiving them clearly yet.
                People have been speculating and hoping since last year that Buffy would get
                around to questioning her origin and destiny. I'll suggest that maybe she's
                not going to be the only one on the show this year that people are going to
                be asking "Who Are You?"

                Trivia question follow-up: Which BtVS episode had the first clear hint that
                Dawn would be coming to the show? You think things aren't planned out well
                in advance?
                Good times...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
                  -- Spike was brought back in season 4 to become Xander's love interest, but Joss had changed his plans because of two factors: Seth Green's departure and Sarah's lobbying Spuffy.
                  Seems like wishful thinking by some hardcore Spanders.

                  Of course, there is a setup for Dawn becoming the next Slayer based on the
                  events of Season 5 and how everything ended up. But no one has ever
                  suggested seriously that Dawn is some sort of a clone of Buffy, have they?
                  After all, they really don't look that much alike, do they?.

                  Buffy's a blond, Dawn is a brunette. They have different temperaments and
                  personalities. A lot of last season was spent showing how Dawn is much more
                  of a problem child, kind of tending toward the wild and untamed side, than
                  Buffy ever was. They seem like two completely different people, don't they?
                  If the monks intended Dawn to be a clone of Buffy, then either they screwed
                  up somehow or Casting deserves a big WAP. That is, assuming the monks
                  intended Dawn to be a clone of Buffy and not something else entirely.
                  Whereas Dawn and Faith look so incredibly similar and are even more similar in personality... as if they aren't different people at all...

                  Some of these theories sound like it could've happened (especially compared to the crazy stuff that did happen in the verse), but some really crack me up. Keep 'em coming.
                  You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
                    Lookey what I found on my hard drive...

                    Posted at The Stakehouse: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/the_stakehouse/


                    Good times...
                    Oh wow that is from quite a while heh. I never really saw the resemblance between Dawn and Faith except for in personality (temper, attitude, theft, lying, etc).
                    325 posts to go til signature

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Blix View Post
                      Oh wow that is from quite a while heh. I never really saw the resemblance between Dawn and Faith except for in personality (temper, attitude, theft, lying, etc).
                      I don't see any resemblance between Dawn and Faith in personality. How are they alike in attitude or temper? And theft is not a personality trait: Dawn was a kleptomaniac, because she wanted to draw attention to herself, while Faith was stealing because she was poor and with no family to support her and had to make ends meet.

                      Physically they're not alike at all, either. Michelle has blue eyes, Eliza has brown eyes, they don't have similar features, build or height - it's funny that someone thought the hair color is enough to make them similar (not to mention that they don't even have the same hair color, Eliza's hair is darker).
                      Last edited by TimeTravellingBunny; 05-12-12, 11:32 AM.
                      You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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                      • #12
                        ^
                        Uh um I was just trying to bridge a connection with the rumor/theory that Dawn was an extension of Faith -- which is in relation to the Dawn rumors that were running wild at the time, and obviously not prevelant now after the series had ended.
                        Last edited by Dinza; 06-12-12, 01:03 AM.
                        325 posts to go til signature

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
                          Seems like wishful thinking by some hardcore Spanders.
                          Quite.

                          Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
                          Faith was stealing because she was poor and with no family to support her and had to make ends meet.
                          I don't think the principle of 'want, take, have' focussed on her poor economics so much as her power. Not that that has anything to do with the Dawn comparison, just saying.

                          I didn't watch BtVS until 2010 so no waiting for rumours for me. I was pretty unspoiled too. I knew that she dated a vampire called Angel but I thought that she had gone to hell to save him at one point. And I was pretty sure she had a thing going with Spike later on because I vaguely remembered catching a few minutes of an episode whilst channel hopping where they were smooching in her bed (so I thought it was all more open and obvious than it actually was). S8 was nearly finished when I found out about the comics so the Angel reveal/spacefrak had already happened and Spike had returned.

                          I find the experience of hearing the story in stages as it develops rather than just seeing it all in one go significantly different solely for the rumours and speculation we all do whilst waiting for the next fix. I enjoy it in the main because I like the community and enjoy hearing the thoughts of quite a few of the regular posters. Looking back on S9 I don't think I can remember many rumours that were more out there than the reality ended up being!! The possibilities around what might have happened between Spike and Buffy when Severin tried draining them relating to her pregnancy were probably the most crazy.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                            I don't think the principle of 'want, take, have' focussed on her poor economics so much as her power. Not that that has anything to do with the Dawn comparison, just saying.
                            Well I don't think she only started stealing when she got her superpowers. You don't need superpowers to be a thief. I don't think she had problems with doing something illegal, and she had been supporting herself for a few years probably.
                            You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
                              Well I don't think she only started stealing when she got her superpowers. You don't need superpowers to be a thief. I don't think she had problems with doing something illegal, and she had been supporting herself for a few years probably.
                              Oh, I'm not saying she never stole through necessity/survival, just that she wasn't a 'poor me' victim reacting to her scenario whenever she got light-fingered, that's all.

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