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Spike : how 'nice' does he play now?

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  • Spike : how 'nice' does he play now?

    I wasn't really sure how to title this thread. I just wanted to gauge really how 'nice' people think that Spike really wants to play. Not just with the Scoobies but generally. I think that Spike is a hero and would (and has) put himself on the line to save the lives of others. But if it wasn't a life and death situation how much would he put himself out? Who do you think he would try to 'help' in a general sense with every day issues (relationship troubles, family issues, moving house, emotional support, fetching the shopping etc)? This is help without a connecting reason to inspire it, the person just needs help and hasn’t had to ‘sell’ it to him and he hasn’t been asked to do it by anyone else, but it requires him to put himself out to do it.

    It seems that there may be a story coming up in his comic mini
    Spoiler:
    where he is trying to help out a demon who is trying to get home
    but how much does a 'need' have to connect with him personally (as I think there is a real link to his current personal story there) for him to be interested in helping? How few and far between, or not, are those times when it isn't life or death that would inspire him into action? I'm assuming all required help has no 'bad' connotations.

    So who, out of those listed above, do you think Spike would just 'help out'? I am trying to see if there is a perceived differential essentially.
    161
    Buffy
    16.15%
    26
    Angel
    4.35%
    7
    Dawn
    12.42%
    20
    Xander
    4.35%
    7
    Willow
    7.45%
    12
    Illyria
    11.18%
    18
    Connor
    4.97%
    8
    Lorne
    5.59%
    9
    Dowling
    2.48%
    4
    Koh
    0.62%
    1
    Drusilla
    4.97%
    8
    Wood
    0.00%
    0
    Giles (before obviously!!)
    4.35%
    7
    Faith
    3.73%
    6
    Dana
    2.48%
    4
    Other Slayers
    3.73%
    6
    Riley
    0.00%
    0
    Andrew
    3.73%
    6
    Random Demon Stranger
    1.86%
    3
    Random Human Stranger
    5.59%
    9
    Last edited by Stoney; 05-08-12, 10:15 PM.

  • #2
    I picked Buffy, Dawn and Illyria.

    Buffy is a given and for anyone following S9 we've already seen Spike offer Buffy a place to live aswell as be willing to even raise a baby with her.

    Despite Spike and Dawn's relationship not being what it used to be - not since she threatened to set him on fire - I don't sense any animosity on Spike's behalf. The same guy who willing to play cards with her or babysit her is going to help her move house or offer relationship advice - if she asked him too.

    I think Spike would help Illyria because she reminds him of Fred. He already began to take an interest in her beyond trying to work out her battle style, and I got the sense he rather enjoyed her company. I think he found her curious and entertaining. If Illyria approached Spike and asked him to help her assimilate into the world I have no doubt he'd say yes.

    I nearly picked Connor and Dowling. The only reason I didn't pick Connor is because I'm still unsure on AtF's "Luke warm" canon status so I don't know how much stock to put in that nephew/uncle relationship. If honored in other canonical works then, yes, I could see Spike making a strong effort with him. And the only reason I didn't pick Dowling is because I just needed a *little* more to feel confident that Spike has an emotional attachment to him. Their relationship was still so new, but he did already make a considerable effort with Dowling so I think they were certainly on their way there.

    I would have once upon a time said Angel but not after S8. We'll see if that changes after his stint in A&F.
    "The earth is doomed!" - Banner by Nina

    Comment


    • #3
      I picked the same for pretty much the same reasons except I didn't consider Dowling and I did pick Willow.

      I think Spike would help Dowling with anything 'work' related but I don't think there was any indication that he liked him on a personal front so I'm not sure, I don't think he would just help him out in an every day sense unless he was asked to.

      I think Spike has a soft spot for Willow that would have him help her out, in a lot of situations. I'm not sure how much he 'likes' her but I do think he a[ppreciates things he she has done in the past and the history they have shared. It was actually this distinction with Willow that prompted me to consider the sister thread to this one on Spike's introversion, because I do think he would go out of his way to help Willow but I am not sure he would seek a friendship with her. Quite a few people from this poll obviously feel that he would help out other people generally but aren't totally on board as to who it would be, how widely willing he would be, and this is why I wanted to then look and see how limited it is seen to be that Spike wants friendship. I suspect that he would 'help' more people than he would befriend, but his lack of desire to be sociable might help to reduce, to some degree, those he would be willing to even help.

      Basically I think when asked to fight the good fight Spike is in it and committed. And when it comes to socialising Spike is an awkward bugger. So this notion of just helping people in day-to-day life is somewhere in between for him. Personally, I think he needs some level of connection to do it (even if it isn't full blown friendship) to either the situation (like the demon's longing for home) or the person (Willow), otherwise he would need asking to get him involved.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Stoney View Post
        I picked the same for pretty much the same reasons except I didn't consider Dowling and I did pick Willow.

        I think Spike would help Dowling with anything 'work' related but I don't think there was any indication that he liked him on a personal front so I'm not sure, I don't think he would just help him out in an every day sense unless he was asked to.
        He all but tried to be a matchmaker for Dowling and Buffy ("Nothing but make me happier than to see her with a bloke like you") so it seems he must like him personally to some extent at least.
        You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
          He all but tried to be a matchmaker for Dowling and Buffy ("Nothing but make me happier than to see her with a bloke like you") so it seems he must like him personally to some extent at least.
          I think that simply means that he doesn't dislike him but he meets an idea of what would be better for her then he ever would, him not being normal and all that blah de blah he was jabbering on about around then.
          Last edited by Stoney; 07-08-12, 07:39 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Eeee, I'd love to know why someone didn't think he would help out Buffy?!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Stoney

              But if it wasn't a life and death situation how much would he put himself out? Who do you think he would try to 'help' in a general sense with every day issues (relationship troubles, family issues, moving house, emotional support, fetching the shopping etc)? This is help without a connecting reason to inspire it, the person just needs help and hasn’t had to ‘sell’ it to him and he hasn’t been asked to do it by anyone else, but it requires him to put himself out to do it.
              I will use “help out in a general sense” to mean “help out as a good friend would.”

              Even this with definition, it would depend on the Season.

              BtVS S2: Drusilla
              BtVS S3: Drusilla
              BtVS S4: Drusilla
              BtVS S5: Drusilla, Buffy, Joyce, Dawn
              BtVS S6: Drusilla (possibly), Buffy
              BtVS S7: Drusilla (possibly), Buffy
              AtS s5: Drusilla (possibly), Fred, Buffy (possibly; he decided not to go back to Buffy)
              BtVS S8: Drusilla (possibly); Buffy (when he was actually around)
              IDW stuff: [spoiler] Drusilla, Illyria, Beck, Buffy (possibly; he didn’t go back to her)
              BtVS S9: Buffy (when he was actually around)
              Spoiler:
              The extent partly depends on if he knew that Buffy was a Buffybot


              __________________________________________________ _

              Eeee, I'd love to know why someone didn't think he would help out Buffy?!!
              Well, he decided
              Spoiler:
              to stay away from her for years and he has left her again. Also, he seems easily distracted by beautiful immortals (Spider, Illyria, this new demon).




              vampmogs

              Buffy is a given and for anyone following S9 we've already seen Spike offer Buffy a place to live aswell as be willing to even raise a baby with her.
              Aren’t we supposed to use spoilers?

              Despite Spike and Dawn's relationship not being what it used to be
              Spike hasn’t been close to Dawn since Spike saw Buffy in “Afterlife” (6.03).

              I think Spike would help Illyria because she reminds him of Fred. He already began to take an interest in her beyond trying to work out her battle style, and I got the sense he rather enjoyed her company. I think he found her curious and entertaining. If Illyria approached Spike and asked him to help her assimilate into the world I have no doubt he'd say yes.
              I consider it goes beyond that; meaning that he also liked Illyria for Illyria. The IDW stuff
              Spoiler:
              made it seem that he was in love with Fred, which simply doesn’t make sense because if that were true, he would have pursued Fred in AtS s5.


              I nearly picked Connor and Dowling. The only reason I didn't pick Connor is because I'm still unsure on AtF's "Luke warm" canon status so I don't know how much stock to put in that nephew/uncle relationship.
              Well, Connor was
              Spoiler:
              helping Spike save people. I’m not sure if it was suggested that Spike was great friends with Connor.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by MikeB View Post
                Well, he decided
                Spoiler:
                to stay away from her for years and he has left her again.
                I don't think that reflects in any way on whether he would be willing to help her out. Spike clearly demonstrates that if he is around he will do virtually anything to help Buffy and if he can he will come specifically to help. If he isn't around or whether or not he is in a relationship with Buffy or with someone else, doesn't reflect on whether he would be willing to help her.

                I consider it goes beyond that; meaning that he also liked Illyria for Illyria. The IDW stuff
                Spoiler:
                made it seem that he was in love with Fred, which simply doesn’t make sense because if that were true, he would have pursued Fred in AtS s5.
                Spoiler:
                I would agree that Spike liked Illyria but his inclination to help and protect her seemed routed in the fact that Fred was still in there too. I don't think IDW made him seem in love with Fred, just that he cared, the same as was shown in Angel, and that was basically like a sibling/protective big brother thing.


                EDIT:
                As an aside re: IDW...
                Spoiler:
                Spider was a 'relationship' that Spike kind of fell into. The origins of which seemed to be her taking advantage of him being imprisoned (which touched the boundaries of rape imo). Spike seemed willing to offer himself to her or 'the other girls' if they would release him so there was a consensual aspect to it but it was highly unpleasant and it came across that he was willing because it might get him free. Sure, he stayed around the mansion undercover then on and it was implied that he probably sought a shallow interaction with the girls at the end of a day fighting or whatever but no details of what/who or what extent that went to was given. I would never, ever have considered Spider a 'girlfriend' of Spike's if Lynch hadn't described her as such directly in the Lynch 8. That relationship has to be about the worst that I have ever seen portrayed and, although I liked Spike AtF, that aspect was incredibly poorly executed if Lynch thought that he was showing Spike to be having a romantic relationship with her in any way whatsoever.
                Last edited by Stoney; 26-09-12, 09:27 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Stoney

                  In BtVS 9.09 (or whenever it was), he
                  Spoiler:
                  leaves Buffy even though he knows that Simone is still after her
                  . That of course is a demonstration of how much he is willing to help her. Simply put, after “Chosen” (7.22) there was a limit in how much and/or to what extent Spike is willing to help Buffy.


                  * I read everything you said about the IDW stuff. At this point, unless we are told by Joss (or secondarily if Scott Allie says that Joss said it was canon) that that stuff is actually canon, I’d prefer not to spend time discussing it. For me – with the Spike stuff – even if he wasn’t
                  Spoiler:
                  with Spider or was in some kind of ‘relationship’ with Illyria
                  , in the years he’d been apart from Buffy, he’s very likely not been celibate (apart from that one time with Harmony) that whole time.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I never said he had and I would assume he hasn't been.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                      I never said he had and I would assume he hasn't been.
                      You mean apart from Harmony?

                      You support Buffy/Spike, so, rationally and logically, I can't understand your gripe with Spider other than if you consider that somehow Spider was 'beneath' Spike.

                      Spike had been trying to kill Buffy for over 3 years before he even tried to actively pursue Buffy. And he'd been in love with her for most -- or all -- of those three years. He fell for her in BtVS S2.

                      And yet your problem with Spider seems to simply center on her
                      Spoiler:
                      wanting to make out and have sex with Spike instead of torturing him.


                      Anyway, Spike never mentions him being in any kind of long-term relationship. Pretty much the possible canon seems to be that once "Not Fade Away" (A 5.22) ended Spike was (depending on what is canon)
                      Spoiler:
                      in Hell-LA, at Mosaic, or on the bug ship
                      before he shows up in BtVS S8.

                      So, you consider he was with random women?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No I was saying that if someone told me that 2 years passed between NFA and S8, then asked me do I think Spike would have remained celibate throughout that time I would say probably not. That doesn't mean I would expect anything or assume anything about what relationship(s) he may have had, just that it is feasible he would have had one.

                        The Spider thing again is something that we circle on. The issue is that he was a prisoner trying to get help to escape and made it quite clear that he was willing to do whatever to accomplish that. In this and this post I have outlined my views on this topic and I haven't seen any new ground covered since so I refer you back to them again. In my opinion the foundation of the relationship is vile and as I keep saying I dislike the topic so if there are no additional, previously undisclosed facts based on the text I really don't want to keep talking about it because we are just going in circles and I find it unpleasant.

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