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Reacting to Reactions! - BtVS Season 3

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  • Reacting to Reactions! - BtVS Season 3

    So this is just like the S2 reactions thread and is intended for any/all reaction vids for the third season of Buffy. Feel free to post your thoughts/recommendations/comments on any reactor's vids on a S3 episode in this thread.

    I'm going to continue to go through the season with the four reactors I'm following - alley box., failwhale34, Liam Duke and van. So please join in with commenting on those as I go along. Or, if you're following alley box. and failwhale who, at the time of starting this thread, were around the mid-season point, feel free to post as you watch their new episodes if you'd like. There's no need to wait for me to get to where you are if you want to comment on reactions you've seen. I'll get to chronologically and just look at posts about them once I've caught up.

    Let's see what people make of this season....

  • #2
    3.01 Anne

    alley box.
    Her total excitement over the new title sequence was absolutely fantastic. It made me smile so much.

    She really didn't get where Joyce was coming from when she talks to Giles. When I watched it for the first time this was one of the moments I really got Joyce's perspective. Perhaps that is in great part coming from a different age/personal context perspective myself to alley box. (I watched it first in my thirties and as a mum).

    So pleased by how much she enjoyed this. It's a fabulous episode and one where I really notice the sweeps in the camera work and framing on specific moments. So I wasn't surprised she commented on the camera work, although the one shot she talked about wasn't something I've ever noticed (or remember having heard flagged before, apologies to anyone that's pointed it out previously). Hearing how that worked for her in using the set and making the moment feel 'real' was great. Ending of course with the Xander/Cordelia initial reunion, which is so perfect for their age/awkwardness. I love that she really liked that.

    She gave some appreciation for Lily's return and how that helps build the world too. But the plot with Ken confused her, mostly I think because she became fixated on the idea of the kids getting identified via the blood bank. Her thoughts on Buffy's emotional gain from the plot and how and why it prompted her to return was good.

    She's noticed of course that DB was still in the credit sequence and then talked about how season regulars work and that it could just be for flashbacks etc. So she isn't sure what is happening there yet but is now hopeful that he is going to come back. So much joy that Seth Green was in there too.

    I'm so culturally dim, I don't get the 'R&B king' comment he keeps making about Angel. Is it a reference to corny music vids? It obviously just hits him as funny and I do get that, I just tend to find it somewhat romantic/corny.

    Interesting that he skipped the intro because he didn't want any hints of what might come. I really don't think that the brief flashes of the characters at different points that you get could qualify as being truly spoilery as there's no context and they are so fast. But it is interesting that he avoids it.

    I really like that the situation with Buffy missing has made him think to the structure of the watcher's council straight away when it is going to play more of a part of this season. I've never thought of that aspect being there from the beginning because Buffy is AWOL.

    He really feels for Buffy sat on her own in the flat and really focuses on her emotional state and the themes that tie to that in his end comments. He gives out a lot of credit to how they build the emotional connection he felt. He's naturally disposed to connect to the family side in his thoughts, we've seen that before from him I think, and so him considering during the episode how Joyce will be struggling before we even see her wasn't surprising. It's kind of adorable. He's pretty floored by the exchange between her/Giles though it seemed. But has a delightful response to the ending.

    Appreciation for the call backs again, you gotta love how much we get those. I'd never thought of the ties in the episode to Lie to Me, can't remember hearing that pointed out before, so that was interesting. too.

    I love the moment he has the idea Angel might be in the hell Buffy ends up in, he's obviously so enthused by the chance of it. But, nope, sorry. His interest in the aspect of what else goes on outside Sunnydale is great and will probably work well for him if he's going to watch Angel as well for the wider world building.

    He says at one point, "I didn't entirely pick up on the age rating thing" and I'm not sure what he meant by that, or if I just misheard??

    Liam Duke
    Another liking the season start and enjoying the call back aspects.

    Very typically for Liam, his comments at the end had a lot of focus on the themes and the significance of identity really stood out to him. His appreciation for the demon plot, the slavery and homelessness aspects and how they worked together alongside that was great.

    His thoughts on the Joyce/Giles element still missed what stood out most to me in Joyce's point about the issue with the hidden nature of the relationship Giles had been having with Buffy. He got a lot from the balance of humour with the two Sunnydale couples against the darker themes going on with Buffy. There's plenty of anticipation for the reunion of the group now but awareness of the potential of it going different ways and that it could affect their dynamic too. Very interested to see how he responds to seeing that in the next episode.


    As I said at the end of S2, van's reactions to episodes 1 and 2 of S3 aren't available for the UK so I'm going to take the gap to try a new reactor that was pointed out to me who has only just started episodes 1 & 2 of S1. I'll open a new thread for S1 too as the one I had for these four reactors was specific to them at that time. I'll get to that probably later today/tonight.


    • #3
      Originally posted by Stoney View Post
      She really didn't get where Joyce was coming from when she talks to Giles. When I watched it for the first time this was one of the moments I really got Joyce's perspective. Perhaps that is in great part coming from a different age/personal context perspective myself to alley box. (I watched it first in my thirties and as a mum).
      Yes this surprised me a bit! I love Giles and the Buffy/Giles relationship but I have always really felt for Joyce in that moment. Her anger towards Giles is totally justified and I would imagine that most parents would feel the same way.

      I think most mothers would react very badly to finding out that an older man has had an entire relationship with their daughter behind their back. To make matters worse, Giles was sending Buffy out to jeopardise her life and actively encouraging Buffy to lie from Joyce and keep everything a secret. I think most parents would be livid and that Joyce handles things remarkably well all things considered.

      To be honest, I always get a little peeved with Giles and his reaction to Joyce in that scene. I'd expect him to be a little more understanding or apologetic but instead he gets stern and defensive.

      ~ Banner by Nina ~


      • #4
        vampmogs I think that alley box.'s Giles love meant that she was taken aback by him suddenly being verbally attacked by Joyce. I felt like she was reading the scene as a jointly supportive one, wanting to see them coming together in their affection for Buffy and was a bit floored when Joyce spoilt that for her. She then just seemed to fail to get the point about that alarming side of the relationship between Giles and Buffy from Joyce's perspective.

        I think there is a good deal of projecting her frustration and guilt from Joyce wrapped up in it too. Buffy had pressed her about not questioning the bloodied clothing etc, but regarding Giles she must have felt angry/guilty for just accepting the times when Giles turned up and she just took it as him representing the school. There is possibly also a bit of blame shifting as well because she was so unprepared for this secret life Buffy was leading being revealed that she tried to put her foot down in frustration at her lack of control over Buffy, when clearly she didn't really mean it or want Buffy to not return, it was all in a heightened emotional moment. So there is definitely a lot at play within Joyce when she verbally lashes out at Giles, but feeling angry about the secret relationship Giles was conducting behind her back is a legitimate part of that for sure and one which she definitely has a right to feel bothered by.


        • #5
          3.02 Dead Man's Party

          alley box.
          Her reaction to the camera work between Buffy and Willow when they are still avoiding voicing the issues is great. Her thoughts on this at the end were interesting and how this reminded her of a similar effect she'd talked about in Ted.

          I enjoyed how she looked to consider the characters' perspectives and the effect of how things went. It was interesting that she commented on being pleasantly surprised that Buffy could be presented as being flawed, that the show will go there. It's hard to relate to someone who's shown to be unquestionable.

          I've given her some slack for not seeing some of the tying themes and messages in the motw episodes because I'm damn sure that I didn't with a lot of it on my first viewing either. But I nearly laughed aloud when she said she was sure there was a metaphor in there that related to Buffy's situation re: the zombies/mask. You can't get much more blunt than Xander's line in response to Buffy saying she needed to deal with things on her own, "You can't just bury stuff, Buffy. It'll come right back up to get you." Still, I'm glad she did enjoy it as a follow on from the last episode, for showing how people are processing everything.

          I liked that he appreciated that Buffy having run away wasn't just going to be brushed off. He really gets both points of view and is feeling the tension in the episode. You can see his increasing connection to the characters and his response when the conversation gets pushed at the party is just brilliant to watch. I love that it exceeded his expectations.

          I've gotten the impression family is a big deal to him so seeing him react so strongly to this episode, praising the writing for what it addresses in how the group impact each other makes a lot of sense. Interesting that he's so enthused here and makes the distinction for him that it's the character drama that he loves and the supernatural elements vary between episodes. Lots of praise for the writing and performances.

          A great literal reaction to watch to this episode and his end comments were interesting too. I'd definitely recommend this one.

          Liam Duke
          Comedy reaction to the cat dropping from the shelves.

          Again seeing both sides, and they do really present both so well, I love that it works for everyone in that way. The character work stood out again, the zombie plot very secondary but as he says, it wasn't the focus of the episode.

          The rebuilding of bridges still feels in progress to him. His commentary gave plenty of thoughts about the character dynamics which were good. I like that he picked up on the miscommunication as that so often plays a part and talked about how Cordelia and Oz are slotting in. The Snyder aspects and where that is going creating some intrigue, as you'd expect.

          van - again the vid isn't okay for the UK for this one, but she will be back with episode 3.


          I really enjoyed watching these, especially failwhale's reaction. Have you caught this one flow ? I might watch the new S1 reactor's vid for Witch later today/tomorrow. Still not sure if I'm going to keep watching hers.

          Really looking forward to seeing how these four respond to Faith's arrival.


          • #6
            It feels like it has been so long since I watched the reactor vids. I'm probably falling behind on catching up with alley box and failwhale again. Onwards...

            3.03 Faith, Hope and Trick

            alley box.
            I find her expectations for what might crop up when she's considering the season structures often interesting. It isn't something that I ever really thought about when first watching. But by discussing it as she goes through she's giving it more wider consideration than I was on my first watch so I like hearing these thoughts and seeing where she's right/wrong.

            "Why does he look like a Star Trek character?" Yes! Agreed.

            Her responses in this episode are so much fun. I wasn't sure how she'd respond to Faith so that and her later commentary thoughts about Faith, where she might go, were interesting. Her reaction to Xander's obvious interest in Faith surprised me to be honest.

            I think she responded exactly as they'd wanted to Giles' reveal (I'm looking forward to her reaction to Helpless). And the moment Angel appeared. Totally floored. Plenty of questions and speculation there.

            Really fun reaction mostly because of how many questions it threw up for her.

            First time I've seen him do an unboxing. I'm still finding this an odd interaction with the reactors that people have.

            His wishes for everything with Scott going well is sweet and does show his consideration for Buffy's wellbeing.

            Yeah, I thought he'd said something in Becoming about assuming the two slayers scenario had ended with Kendra, so this all surprised him quite a bit. It seemed to distract him a little as it was such a step away from where he'd assumed it already was.

            I know I say this so often, but I just love how aware of the music he is. There's absence, he's expecting impact moments. It's great.

            His comments about vampire armour were hilarious.

            Love how much he sees the characters as progressed and built on from where the show started and enjoys the continuity in the plots/storylines across the seasons. He seemed to enjoyed it well enough as an episode to be built on.

            Liam Duke
            The second person to speculate if there'll be a leprechaun episode.

            Lots of praise for the slow reforming of the group and the immediate disruptions. Appreciation for the aspects that paralleled and contrasted between Buffy and Faith, so that's likely to be an aspect of the season he'll really enjoy. Interesting ideas and expectations there and on what might be coming for Willow.

            Eager to see more of whatever the plot with The Mayor is going to be and other aspects leading on from this.

            I love how much the group make her smile. She's clearly excited by the end and it just raises a bunch of questions for her.

            Really interesting that she commented on the way Angel appeared, falling down rather than any imagery of him clawing/crawling up and out instead. Because of the state he's in she pulls back on her first thought he was falling from heaven in her post analysis, but I think the original comment of the symbolism's mismatch to exiting hell is still an intriguing observation. Her focus is so much on Angel, considering back to her reaction now, I kind of missed her reaction to Faith.


            • #7
              I've just had a quick look and alley box. has just done Band Candy, failwhale Homecoming. So I'm not too far behind. It'd be great to get caught up before they get to The Wish.

              I've not been convinced by domi e (the S1 reactor I gave a try and posted on in the S1 thread). Once I catch up with these two I'm going to try ASR's S1 reactions.


              • #8
                flow have you caught any of the S3 reactions? failwhale or anyone else?

                3.04 Beauty and the Beasts

                alley box.
                Watching her trying to read something from the episode title is entertaining. I honestly don't think I ever did that. But this comes back to talking about it as you're going along against just slamming on the episodes and bingeing away.

                She's so excitable or confused throughout this episode at so many turns it's very entertaining to watch. Her response during and what she said in the commentary about how busy it seemed made me appreciate how much is happening in this episode. It's easy to forget when it just becomes part of the whole picture for you. I still think she's perhaps still not considering the thematic ties within the episode itself, across its various points of focus, which makes it less 'scrambled'. Not a criticism, I certainly didn't when first watching myself, just an observation.

                In her intro comments the idea of the initial disorientation when first souled that we saw in the flashback when Angel was initially cursed (so it was understood when he was then re-cursed at the end of S2), was either a connection she missed at the time or has forgotten. So I think it's perhaps a good move that they specifically touch on the idea of disorientation and trauma in coming back from hell to help draw the viewer into understanding Angel's situation and help shake off the possible confusions and questions. Sometimes it is good to get a bit of tell when you really want everyone on the same page.

                You've gotta love the guidance counsellor. RIP. She's definitely right about how much the social awareness/perspective on these things has changed. They didn't even have school counsellors when I went to school. It makes total sense as a psych student that this aspect of the episode and the relationship dynamic between Pete and Debbie are ones she comments on a lot, and what she has to say is pretty interesting.

                Giles love is no surprise from her, I'm still hopping around for her to watch Helpless. Great to see a lot of feels and thoughts for what Buffy is going through too. She's plenty engaged in the season already and a lot of that is because of Angel's return.

                Really amused about his comments on the energy levels of the group and another whose appreciation for Giles' role with Buffy has me itching to get to Helpless.

                I was amused at him hoping for Scott that he at least won't die and liked his reaction over Platt's fate. Shame he was a bit confused at what was happening with Pete at first, but generally his responses to him were great. I like his response to the Willow and Oz of the episode and Buffy seeking help. His uncertainty over the choice to bring Angel back quite feral I connect to less. For me it just looked to put weight to the impact of experiences on you and what Angel's come from. Things develop on from that pretty quickly though and I expect he's really going to like Amends.

                Another that struggled with some of the execution and I have to wonder if my familiarity with the episode makes these issues fade a bit. Although his question over the realism to fearing Oz had escaped is a very obvious one that I can remember being my initial response too. I'll be interested to see if the overall structure/execution is something both Liam and van raise too. I've come to enjoy this episode more from rewatches and talking about it, as tends to always be true. But still, it isn't one of the strongest of the season, so I can certainly understand his perspective.

                Liam Duke
                Okay, someone else recognises Mr Platt.

                The intensity of his reaction to the angst when Oz is being standoffish with Willow, fearing the change and what he becomes, made me realise how well this works for Oz's struggles and where their relationship goes.

                Arrgh another loving the Buffy and Giles dynamic, some fabulous thoughts at the end and I'm back to willing us to get to Helpless yet again. His thoughts generally on the episode and dynamics between the varying characters are really good.

                I really enjoyed how caught up in this he was, but that he still commented on having concern for the books.

                Liam tends to lean towards being more appreciative of most episodes, but it was interesting to get that contrast where the multiple plots and how they tied together worked for him because, I think, of how he sees the thematic links pretty much straight away. Seeing the varying plots, how they tied, seemed to mean the 'busyness' just gave the episode a pace that worked for him.

                Totally fair question about why/how Angel came to help Buffy. Another question that I certainly felt on first viewing. Plenty of anticipation on where things may go with Angel and Buffy. Intriguing to see a tragedy in what happens with Mr Platt and for Scott in the episode as being connected to Buffy entering their lives. Harsh, but intriguing he voiced this. I enjoyed his thoughts at the end overall and on the connections between the characters, the relationship of Pete and Debbie and representation of abuse there alongside the other 'beasts' and plots in particular.

                I'm not keen on the changes they went with on the werewolf design through the seasons so it was interesting to hear his comments on that and reference back to what viewers had said about the first design too. I didn't love it back then either, but preferred it to what they've done with it here.

                Her jumping at things is still funny.

                Alright, everyone knows 'Mr Moseby', I assume it's a show that happened when I was too old to be the target demographic. I really didn't recognise the picture of him as Moseby she put up in her audio commentary.

                The cut of her video made me wonder why Buffy wasn't getting grief for falling asleep on Oz watch too? I can't remember if they covered that in the ep?

                Lots of feels for Willow and Oz and total excitement for seeing Angel and Buffy around each other again. A very emotional response to the episode, she doesn't feel like they are giving the breaks in the intensity this season as they have others and I can see that. She has a more romantic connection to Angel finding Buffy, is simply less questioning about it.

                Again the change in werewolf design is discussed. I wonder if I missed alley box and failwhale commenting on that or if they did in their full reactions. It is a definite negative side of this episode for me, but van was more positive on it. I do agree the Phases one looks silly, more like a Halloween mask, so I can understand why they changed it. Still, I don't like the new design either. I don't mind the four leg run though, but it lacks a grace you'd expect the animal to have, so I can understand Liam's dislike of that.

                Huh, how have I never noticed that was a ScoobyDoo lunchbox Willow had at the morgue! Or at least I've forgotten if someone pointed it out before. Totally plausible.

                I liked her acknowledgement of the serious themes the show covers. I hope the abusive relationship video she references was illustrative and not real.


                • flow
                  flow commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I've been too busy to follow his reactions through season 3. I also haven't followed Liam Duke's latest reactions on season 7. I am just very behind but still planning on catching up.

              • #9
                flow said: I've been too busy to follow his reactions through season 3. I also haven't followed Liam Duke's latest reactions on season 7. I am just very behind but still planning on catching up.
                Well when you do get the chance please post on whichever you watch for him or anyone else. I've love to hear your thoughts.


                • #10
                  3.05 Homecoming

                  alley box.
                  The lols edited in over her own predictions for the episode at the start made me smile, and the twins comment at herself too.

                  Major disappointment on the romance front and then the competition between friends. But even with parts she was blerrgh about, she clearly still found a lot of it intriguing or really good fun. Mr Trick is so great. Really there for the Cordelia love in her standing up against Gorch. It's a great moment needed after her earlier behaviour.

                  Her response to Willow and Xander with the Funkos is just hilarious. Her response in her comments at the end is pretty much where I was, a bit more emphatic perhaps, but the gist. But then I really have issues with cheating.

                  Her thoughts on Buffy and Angel are interesting, but I think a great deal of it is missing Buffy's need to find balance on both sides of her life. Interesting to see how this develops for her as it is increasingly addressed directly.

                  Yeah the 'high tech' hunt is definitely funny looking through today's tech goggles.

                  I appreciated her thoughts about the combined writing and directing.

                  He references someone on Discord having drawn a visual parallel between Buffy's situation and Pete/Debbie for Beauty and the Beasts. Nice to hear some of the exchanges he may be getting are adding to his analysis and exploration of the themes.

                  Interesting how he related to Buffy in this episode and really wanted to see both sides of the Cordelia/Buffy battle.

                  His reaction to Willow/Xander was excellent. Interesting how it worked for him in his comments and his reference again to musical cues. I like seeing reactions that vary from my own as much as likenesses.

                  Plenty of enjoyment for the balance in the episode of humour and fun concepts, alongside the emotional notes. And of course, plenty of anticipation to learn more about the Mayor.

                  Liam Duke
                  No surprise the Xander/Willow scene did not go down well. Glad he's feeling Cordelia's emotions in all this, it might pave over her return to the more vicious verbal reactions post finding out about Xander/Willow. This development greatly impacted how he currently feels about this episode. Again, no shock. He has plenty of thoughts on this that do match a lot of what I felt on first seeing it (with a bit more investment than I felt), but is putting a great deal on how he'll eventually look back on this episode on how that plot eventually plays out.

                  Loved his response to the fate of the spiny demon guy. His response to the slayerfest idea and execution was interesting. The competitive edge of the homecoming and the predictability of that storyline didn't appeal to him really but I'm glad that he did find humour in the episode too and loved a couple of key character moments.

                  On the Mayor, "He seems like a very slimy snake." Not yet.

                  I think this might be the longest of her reactions.

                  Again another one where the Xander/Willow scene reaction was great to watch. Very firm opinions expressed in her audio comments at the end and she remarks on another Woz moment in the intro scenes that she now wants to see. Off the top of my head I'm not sure what it is.

                  Her thoughts on the Buffy/Cordelia contest were entertaining, I was amused that she looked back to the strengths/weaknesses board Buffy had put together.

                  **And that's me all caught up with failwhale34!**

                  I'll include his as and when he posts from now and might mix up when I'm watching Liam and van alongside his and alley box. I know I've said it before but please do feel free to post any S3 reactions here too, it doesn't have to be only these four.


                  • #11
                    As I've finally caught up to failwhale, nearly with alley box., I'm going to post a lot more disjointedly for them all now, rather than in batches. I've watched alley box.'s reaction to Band Candy (comment below) but will probably catch the rest for that ep when I see failwhale's . (I've just seen he's posted his YouTube reaction to it now - )

                    alley box.'s reaction to Band Candy...
                    Ah bless her, you really can't guess where this episode is going to go!

                    This is an overrated episode for me, possibly one of the most so, but there are still bits in it I do like, as always. I think I enjoyed it less the more I saw it. Her excitement at recognising Ethan was cute. He's a character the reactor responses have made me appreciate more so I was pleased to see her delight at his return. She seemed to enjoy the humour of the episode generally and liked the progression of other plot points alongside the motw. I agree on the highlight of Snyder, not so much Joyce/Giles. I don't think the premise of this episode works well, so I wouldn't agree that Buffy got to experience what it is like dealing with herself for a real role reversal situation. Responsibility is a constant theme though, yes.

                    Her thoughts on what makes the better effects to watch for shows of this era was interesting.

                    Not happy about Willow and Xander. Cheating doesn't gain you support. Strong opinions expressed here for sure. A lot of my understanding of this storyline, even if I'm still not keen, has come through discussions, my initial reaction was very much the same as hers.

                    I'm so close to catching up to alley box. too! redtent posted in the general YouTube thread that she has just put up Revelations, so I'm going to try to get on to this in the next couple of days.


                    • #12
                      I'm always surprised last how 'uptight' and may I say 'prudish' a lot of todays reactors appear to be. When it comes to sex and sexuality in the both shows things (as we know) get very complicated and often very dark. I feel like that often out of ether comfort zone and they don't like it. Back in the day I wasn't the least bit bothered by what I was watching, and yet I've seen a lot of todays reactors acting like they're lived in a nunnery their entire life.


                      • Skippcomet
                        Skippcomet commented
                        Editing a comment
                        It must be a generational thing. Especially regarding the way the new, younger generation of fans respond so angrily to the Willow and Xander "Fluke"; you'd think that Willow and Xander were actually sleeping together instead of kissing.

                    • #13
                      Okay, I've just watched alley box.'s reaction to Revelations -

                      Interesting that she wondered if Giles would change after this episode with Gwendolyn Post having been so critical and him so angry at the betrayal in Buffy withholding that Angel had returned. I can't remember speculating before what role this could have played into him acquiescing to the test in Helpless, but I'm so looking forward to seeing their reactions to the Buffy & Giles relationship there it sprang to mind. The professional criticism could have subconsciously factored in.

                      Intriguing that she wonders how aware Angel is of what happened to lose his soul. I think it's safe to assume he knows. I've always been pretty accepting that it is difficult for Buffy and Angel at this stage and they're struggling. But knowing what it led to before, I suppose you would have thought it would be quite the dose of cold water. ‚Äč She seems pretty conflicted about Buffy and Angel still.

                      redtent , as I remember alley box always really loved Angel, was very fangirly from the start, and did seem very pro him and Buffy at first but was criticised in the comments of Teacher's Pet for being hypocritical in what she was saying because of liking them and Angel's age. I thought it was pretty unfair to affect her reaction like that, but ever since then she's been fairly conflicted about them. She's constantly saying she's not sure about it. To be honest, I think she's fairly pro them and yes, adores Angel, but the age thing has always been a thing and this idea it probably shouldn't be happening.

                      Originally posted by Silver1 View Post
                      I'm always surprised last how 'uptight' and may I say 'prudish' a lot of todays reactors appear to be. When it comes to sex and sexuality in the both shows things (as we know) get very complicated and often very dark. I feel like that often out of ether comfort zone and they don't like it. Back in the day I wasn't the least bit bothered by what I was watching, and yet I've seen a lot of todays reactors acting like they're lived in a nunnery their entire life.
                      I'm not sure she is behaving like that. She might find the darker storylines surprising, it's hard to guess how pro/anti she'll be. But her issues with Willow/Xander and Buffy/Angel aren't a prudish thing I don't think. She's really pro Willow/Oz and likes Xander/Cordelia too so really disliking the cheating isn't a shock. As I said to redtent she was led to question herself over Buffy and Angel from the start. I just rolled with it and didn't really think anything of it when I first watched, but she is watching and questioning herself and her own reactions throughout. It must be a different experience somewhat for that, particularly with existing fans in your ear putting their interpretations on you at the same time. Even if people avoid spoilers, it can lead her to consider things differently, as it obviously has on that one.

                      I'm gonna try to drop back to Band Candy for failwhale, Liam and van next, possibly tomorrow.


                      • #14
                        Skippcomet I don't think it is generational, I'm in my forties and I wasn't impressed at all by the cheating. Hated it. Sure it is just kissing but it was predictably going to hurt people so it's still not okay just because it could be worse. I find it interesting for the characters narratively and like picking apart the whys of it all, but have no issue finding it interesting in that way and actively disliking the choice.


                        • #15
                          Yeah the cheating was awful. Particularly for Cordelia who had given up a hell of a lot to be with Xander and who had already expressed insecurities about his fixation on Buffy and Willow in the past (Phases). The cheating makes both Xander and Willow look bad for obvious reasons but I think Xander in particular comes off much, much worse given his hypocrisy when mocking Buffy for "tripping and falling on Angel's lips" in Revelations and how he dealt with the aftermath in The Wish and Gingerbread (trying to turn Buffy against Cordelia at The Bronze - "I feel weird about this us vs Cordelia thing. She's had a rough time..." - and moaning about the fact people are now suspicious of him and Willow). Willow at least exhibits guilt, recognises the hypocrisy of attacking Buffy for keeping secrets and lying given her own indiscretions and recognises that Cordy has legitimate reasons for hating them. With that said, I appreciate that Cordy never gets back with Xander and he makes amends in The Prom whereas Willow gets another chance with Oz which I didn't hate precisely because of how she behaved in the aftermath of getting caught. Both relationships developed as I thought they should when taking into consideration Xander and Willow's behaviours and Cordy and Oz as characters.

                          So whilst it may just be kissing I completely understand why all of the reactors (thus far) have really disapproved of it. I don't think it's a generational thing either as most long time fans I've interacted with over the years have definitely disliked it too.

                          ~ Banner by Nina ~