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If "Faith the Vampire Slayer" happened, could Spike/Faith have made sense?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by sybil View Post
    Without moving toward shipper wars, I thank you for the 'once upon a time he had a soul' explanation, to becoming an ensouled vampire, which is quite 'bendy' of you. Hee.
    It works against what the character was likely to want/seek, and it is factual that he was souled and as that was what he sought, how long ago it was isn't really relevant. It is what he is seeking to have restored. So I don't think it is bending the logic, just making sense of the text. As I said, for me it comes down to whether you reconsider how you interpret things to be informed by intent and plot revelations or not. I don't see it as bendy in a contortionistic or manipulative way, just reviewing something with hindsight to understand it better. Although I will concede that to see only one possible explanation before could be considered unbendy, so yes, bendy if you like. I have to say, I do totally understand people having issues with the way that they handled the mislead of Spike going for his soul. I've never been very keen on how they tried to heavily point towards him wanting the chip removed and in great part that is because of the scripting around it. But I'll also at the least accept that if it wasn't written to be misinterpreted, it wouldn't qualify as being very deliberately misleading. At the end of the day it makes sense for the character choice overall, for him to conclude he may be able to 'fix' things that way, and there were hints throughout the season that this was where things could go.

    Spike as a character specifically considered what path he could walk without attaching it to Buffy in staying away in Angel 5 and this was added to when he broke away again after returning in the canon comics. The consideration specifically of not laying his happiness on his love interest was one of the better aspects of his development within those, his greater desire to belong with others too. But then I don't consider the background psychological drive of his wanting acceptance to be 'drivel', being as it is something we see openly explored to originate in William. So the character's path and stages in his story are things we probably view very differently. Plus, I appreciate not everyone reads the comics. Interestingly I don't see this as remotely relevant to shipper wars, so I'll leave that untouched. We can just agree to disagree.


    • #17
      I love Spike/Faith, but then I can read lots of pairings and enjoy them. If the writer can hit it, I can believe it.

      Those two are not only hot together, they are also the broken echoes of the big damn heroes. They share so much in common - regrets, insecurities, passion, fear of love blowing up in their faces - and neither of them has a sacred mission.. As far as I'm concerned they're pretty perfect. Anaross has some terrific Spike/Faith stories. Usually Buffy has moved on to other pastures - generally over to Angel - where they tend to have a somewhat repressed relationship of 'true love with no sex, and very little communication'.
      Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.


      • #18
        I am looking at Spike, who actually did complete his journey, despite a lot of structural failures in metaphor to do so. (“I want to be what I was”: he was never a vampire with a soul” still sticks in my craw).
        I don't want to go off-topic and maybe we should simply create a separate thread for this topic but Spike himself says he is neither a man nor a monster anymore. He used to be the first and then became the latter. Him saying "Make me what I was," can mean both. It can mean "Make me a monster again like I was before the chip," and it can mean "Make me a man again like I was before the siring." At this point in the story we don't know what it is he wants to become.

        I'm currently in the Supergirl fandom and they have their own shipper wars that are reminding me of the Buffyverse shipper wars with some of the these same issues popping up
        I have learned very shortly ago that the Star Trek fandom has huge issues with shipper wars as well. It seems Reylo is the new Spuffy. At least it seems to be as controversial.


        ................................ Banner by buffylover


        • #19
          All shows where there are triangle-ish relationships have shipper issues. Like... all of them.


          • #20
            Originally posted by flow View Post


            I have learned very shortly ago that the Star Trek fandom has huge issues with shipper wars as well. It seems Reylo is the new Spuffy. At least it seems to be as controversial.


            In the Supergirl fandom,Supercorp reminds me of Spuffy.Supercorp is Supergirl aka Kara Danvers/Lena Luthor.It reminds me of the beginnings of the spuffy fandom in that it is a very popular unconventual ship that hasn't happened on the show yet..Lots of fanfic and fan forums but it's now being teased in canon that has it's shippers going nuts with all the teases.Last week was the 100th episode which involved alternate realities one of which had full on supercorp going on.This whole current 5th season is about a battle for Lena's soul and whether she will follow in her brother's Lex Luthor's footsteps and break bad becoming Supergirl's enemy.Lena has been Kara's best friend since she was introduced in the beginning of season 2.But at the end of season 4,Lena found out from Lex(played by Jon Cryer) in the worst way possible that her best friend is Supergirl and has been lying to her about it for years.That's what this current season has been about.Will Lena fall to the darkside or stay in the light and can Kara and Lena repair their friendship.The 100th episode was a takeoff of,"It's A Wondeful Life." where Mr. Mxyzptlk gives Kara the chance to alter reality and reveal her identity as Supergirl to Lena earlier and on her own terms(allowing actors/characters who have left the show to return for this episode).In one reality,Kara reveals she's Supergirl when she first meets Lena and it's strongly implied that they become a couple.This had the Supercorp shippers salivating and desperately wanting them to repair things between them and then to become a full on pairing on the show.

            Anyway,each reality ends with something bad happening leading Kara learning she shouldn't change anything.It also leads to her freeing herself of her guilt and the episode ends with Kara confronting Lena where she says....

            “I made a mistake in hiding my identity from you,” “But the past is the past, and I can’t change it. Whether you forgive me or not, that’s your choice, just like it’s your choice to work with Lex. I’m done blaming myself for your bad decisions.” “From now on, you’re accountable for your own actions. If you decide to forgive me, I will be there for you,”. “But if you continue to work with Lex, if you go through with whatever the two of you are planning, I will do everything in my power to stop you. Just like I would any other villain.”

            So the rest of the season will be about whether this is the wakeup call Lena needed to hear.As the showrunner's pointed out In several post 100th episode interviews.Supergirl freeing herself of this guilt and laying things on the line with Lena had to happen if they have any any chance of reparing things between them.

            I can break the Supergirl ships down to Buffyverse equivalents.

            -Kara/James:James is Jimmy Olsen and this will they or won't they was a central part of season 1.Very Buffy/Xander. IMO with not amounting to anything but Kara and James being close friends.

            -Karamel aka Kara/Mon-El:the central romantic relationship in seasons 2-3.Very star crossed like B/A.They both love eachother but circumstance keeps pulling them apart.Mon-El left the show at the end of season 3 due to being needed in the 30th Century.Chris Wood who plays Mon-El and Melissa Benoist who plays Supergirl/Kara began dating while he was on the show and the two just got married this past fall.Karamel shippers believe that Kara/Mon-El is the end game for the series.Chris returned as Mon-El in this week's 100th episode for the first time since the end of season 3 and yes,Karamel shippers got a lot to like in his return.

            -Supercorp aka Kara/Lena:as I pointed out above.Very beginning spuffy in it being extremely popular in fandom but hasn't happened fully yet on the show but is constantly teased.The creators and actors definitely know it's popular in fandom and like to bait the supercorp shippers with these teases on the show and in interviews.Whether it will become full on canon on the show like spuffy eventually did,we'll see.As mentioned above,the biggest bait was in the 100th episode with that one alternate reality.

            The Karamel shippers and Supercorp shippers are in a constant and ugly shipper war.

            -Kara/William:After Mon-El left the show at the end of season 3 closing Karamel for now,the show decided that Supergirl would have no love interest in season 4.But for Season 5 a new love interest has been introduced in William Dey.William is a new reporter alongside Kara at her job(Kara is a reporter like her cousin Clark/Superman)They initially start out as rivals and not on good terms but as the season has progessed,they've become friends and now a potential romance is developing in the most recent episodes.Kara/William very much reminds me of Buffy/Riley.Like Riley,as soon as the William character was announced last summer,most in fandom thought he screamed new love interest and that has been panning out.Karamel and Supercorp shippers hated the character from the moment he was announced and even more so since the romantic sparks have started.For Karamel shippers it's even more infuriating since Mon-El returned for the 100th episode and it's clear the romantic feelings are still there between Kara and Mon-El(Mon-El only had a small role in the 100th and in two alternate realities but the romantic vibes between Supergirl and him were still there).But with Mon-El only back for the 100th episode and Chris Wood having a major pilot that is expected to go to series,any future Mon-El returns will probably be sporadic at best.

            As you can see,some very Buffyverse parallels.Again,now that I don't ship.I enjoy all the relationships and their potentials.I'm not rooting for any one ship or potential ship.I just sit back and let things go where they want on the romance side of

            There is only one potential ship I'm uncomfortable with now from the show and that was the Kara/Adam relationship(reminds me of Buffy/Scott Hope) that was briefly a part of season 1.And up to recently I enjoyed it until some real world aspects that were recently revealed has sort of tainted it for me.I can still enjoy it in fanfic but have trouble re-watching it,again due to those real life issues.
            Last edited by BAF; 28-02-20, 04:31 PM.