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If "Faith the Vampire Slayer" happened, could Spike/Faith have made sense?

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  • If "Faith the Vampire Slayer" happened, could Spike/Faith have made sense?

    All caught up

    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.



    * Spike usually doesn't go for 'second best'. And Faith would have issues with Spike/Faith if she sensed Spike still had feelings for Buffy. Buffy may have needed to die in "Chosen" (B 7.22) or Buffy would have to get back with Angel and that would have to ruin Spike's regard for Buffy/Spike.
    13
    Yes, in general
    7.69%
    1
    Yes, Buffy would need to be permanetly dead
    7.69%
    1
    Yes, Buffy would need to be with Angel
    0%
    0
    No, Spike would prefer not to be with 'second best'
    0%
    0
    No, Spike would try to get back with Drusilla (if Juliet Landau were available)
    0%
    0
    No, in general
    23.08%
    3
    Maybe, if given the right circumstances
    61.54%
    8

  • #2
    From what I remember it was going to be Faith and Spike on a motor bike travelling across America which sounds a bit too SuperNatural. And how was Spike going to get around America on a bike, I dont think his blanket would offer enough coverage. That said, I loved everything about the Buffy journey so i trust they had something good cooked up.
    ā€œ

    I like who I am when Iā€™m with him. I like who we are together.ā€

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    • #3
      I am a born shipper and I like romance as part of a story being told. For me, Buffy would have to be permanently dead for Spike to move on. am even then the writing would have to build up the Spike/Faith romance slowly and believably. One false move and I'd just not buy into it.

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      • BtVS fan
        BtVS fan commented
        Editing a comment
        But weren't you ok with her not getting with Spike but ok with Angel in the new Boom Comics ?

    • #4
      Originally posted by GoSpuffy View Post
      From what I remember it was going to be Faith and Spike on a motor bike travelling across America which sounds a bit too SuperNatural. And how was Spike going to get around America on a bike, I dont think his blanket would offer enough coverage. That said, I loved everything about the Buffy journey so i trust they had something good cooked up.
      He was gonna be a ghost like he was at the start of Angel. Also Principal Wood was going to be a part of it as well.

      Eliza made a big mistake turning down the Faith show given what happened to Tru Calling and Dollhouse but honestly the rip off the Jessica Alba Dark Angel (which was going at the time)pitch was so obvious I could understand why she said no
      Last edited by BtVS fan; 26-02-20, 08:48 AM.

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      • #5
        BtVS fan commented
        Today, 08:45 AM
        But weren't you ok with her not getting with Spike but ok with Angel in the new Boom Comics ?

        Boom comics have gone their own way, hardly using the character of Buffy at all. It's a different medium and this really isn't my Buffy. The Dark Horse comics were my continuation of the story. Boom Buffy seems to be having a romance with Robin the watcher . . . which in itself raises a lot of issues about power within a relationship etc.

        I'd love to see Boom Buffy and Spike together, but I don't think it's going to happen, or at least not for another few years until they've run out of other things to do.

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        • #6
          If there was still the option of going back to Buffy they'd have a harder time making a relationship make sense. If it was to be more than just a fling that is, which would be far easier to work believably. But as it was continuing straight from S7 it would work better for them to have just been working alongside each other, as she did with Angel, even if there was more of a flirtatious vibe at points. Both characters play a flirty angle often to get their way and manipulate. But neither would fail to see through that so I think a friendship would be a better starting point, probably quite similar to how Spike and Fred cared for each other in AtS 5. If they were going to try to swing it into a relationship they could probably make that work with time.

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          • #7

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            • #8
              I really disliked that Spike propositioned Faith, but reading it here, it's quite funny. Faith has the right attitude, she knows she'd be the rebound girl and it would be empty sex and she's matured too. I also like to think she's got a thing for Angel

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              • #9
                Yes Spike was in a sad state begging around town to make himself feel like someone wanted him, to try to get his mojo back. Never great on handling feeling rejected. Anyway, I think this is pretty realistic for where Faith had gotten to by then, and even straight out from S7. It is why there would have to be a long time built into it to make it believable and not just be a scene exactly like that.

                I could see Faith/Angel, but always liked that they didn't go there and they were just friends. I think a similar dynamic with Spike is far more realistic than a romance if they had done the spin off. They could always write romance of course, just not easily from a standing start. Spike's story has been pulled along by/tied to his relationship with Buffy for several seasons and there would need to be a sizeable break to get from all of that to another romance and you not just be expecting him to eventually return to Buffy again. I don't think she'd need to be dead(!) but I don't think it would happen readily.

                I've just rewatched Orpheus this morning and really enjoyed seeing Faith and Angel again. The tone fits really well to how they were written in the canon comics I think.

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                • #10
                  Ha! I’ve always shipped Faith/Spike—and even Gunn (since the show didn’t do anything with Robin—which is my sorrow that “Faith/Spike” didn’t happen). I like the dark and light/black and white ‘look’ as part of the symbolism of opposites—so natch, I’m B/A.

                  I would have liked the story to also be in the pursuit of making Spike NOT a ghost—as his drive toward being a “real, live, boy,” human being or, by his own choice, that he is the great, ageless, metaphor of Poetry—that held greater logic than what ATS did. First off, he was already there at the hell mouth—which means “explaining” a ghost being tied to a place is not impossible, as we know there are many hellomouths—and maybe they are connected, which all this aether travel suggests. Also, we have Dracula who chooses to remain a vampire.

                  The real kicker is that the slayer line being in Faith, despite Buffy coming back again in order to trigger all potentials, wasn’t answered well to me. It works that the truth of the story is that she is dead and makes her final journey, as was Buffy’s “growing up” /”Becoming” story on TV.

                  The underworld journeys (Book of the Dead) can be the anti- or support of such a story, with MOW, to add the stressors, etc. Not to mention,

                  The idea of Faith dealing with a vampire lover is one thing, but the frustration of a ghost is rather hilarious. I also think that the power struggle of slayer and watcher is a dynamic that was dismissed with Buffy and to see Faith learn to study would have done me some good in filling out her personality. Knowing stuff is good. I mean they have literal academies for soldiers to learn weapons and war tactics, strategies and even the shape of winning/losing.

                  I guess BOOM is really allergic to any spiritual/meaningful romance—that was paramount to me in B/A and will always remain so since they never could deal with the cure to the curse written within it. So, other than ‘get out your lute,’ for types of “Blake” (also another William and that is funny to me) atmospherics helps sustain this genre of horror story when literal focus on the titular hero is (again) dismissed—and yes, I am looking at Spike, who actually did complete his journey, despite a lot of structural failures in metaphor to do so. (“I want to be what I was”: he was never a vampire with a soul” still sticks in my craw).

                  And I think about this stuff too much!

                  HUGS!
                  sybil



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                  • #11
                    I voted Maybe, if given the right circumstances.I think a Spike/Faith pairng could of happened if the show ran several seasons and Spike was un-ghosted(which I'm sure he would of been eventually,maybe not as fast as on ATS but I could of seen him un-ghosted by a season 1 finale).I don't think a Spike/Faith pairing would happen for example in a season 1 due to Buffy baggage issues for both.But I could see Joss and the writers start to develop the idea of doing Spike/Faith by a say a season 3 or a season 4.I could see flings and other love interests happening for either or both before the show started trying Spike/Faith in a serious way..

                    Even though I didn't like it,in retrospect,it's probably not realistic to not give the leads(like Buffy,Angel,and in this scenario Faith & Spike) new romantic interests when their previous ones are on another series or the actor playing the previous love interest would only appear sporatically.It's another reason why I no longer ship couples.As much as I love B/A and love the stuff B/A got once ATS launched(IWRY,Forever etc),I do aknowledge that the showrunners had to bend over backwards to keep the idea of it going when the leads are now on different shows or not in the universe anymore once one show ends and the other is still going.For example,they couldn't get SMG back for Angel season 5 despite trying several times.But scheduling and real life issues prevented it.SMG may of made some guest appearances in season 1 of a Faith & Spike series but any appearances would be sporatic and might of become fewer and fewer as the series continued into years.

                    Basically I think the showrunners would of had to bend over backwards to keep the idea of spuffy going if Faith & Spike happened and had a long run as a series.I think they could for one or two seasons but by the time it got to a season 3/4 and beyond,they would of been jumping through hoops to keep the idea of spuffy going and not give Spike a love interest or pair him with Faith.I mean by season 3,they began doing Angel/Cordelia while prior to that doing things like tease Angel and other pairings and doing Angel/Nina after Cangel while trying to keep hope alive for B/A.That was a tightrope they walked and would be one with B/S while doing Spike on another series long term..

                    I'm currently in the Supergirl fandom and they have their own shipper wars that are reminding me of the Buffyverse shipper wars with some of the these same issues popping up
                    Last edited by BAF; 26-02-20, 04:50 PM.

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                    • #12
                      I do like them together and I could absolutely see it happen. There is chemistry. But I am not sure if there could be enough depth of emotion to make it become more than a fling for both of them. The things they have in common - being upfront, impulsive and reckless - might work better in a relationship where your significant other is rather your opposite instead of your mirror. I think they both need someone who can keep them grounded and balances them out.

                      flow
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                      • #13
                        I personally thank Eliza for not doing that show. Sounded like a terrible idea.

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                        • #14
                          Originally posted by sybil View Post
                          ("I want to be what I was" : he was never a vampire with a soul" still sticks in my craw).
                          This is a bit of a tangent, but I don't have issue with this. Obviously at the time they were wanting to play that he might be asking for the chip out, so some of the phrasing definitely seems odd and you have to reconsider it to see how it can work with the reveal he went for his soul. As we never saw the whole conversation with Lloyd that had happened, they were only ever summarising and making brief reference I think, it is fair to assume more details and precise description of what he was wanting had happened. So Lloyd of course would understand the reference back, even if at a first glance the phrase could seem contrary to what occurred. However, a 'being' who is souled, is someone he once was. It's totally in character that Spike wouldn't want to return to being William completely, he didn't look back on himself fondly and spent so much effort trying to build an image that distanced him from being seen as weak. His unsouled perspective was that Dru had saved him of course. Plus he wanted to be seen as an equal to Buffy. So he wouldn't want to return to being human again, to being someone he disliked, someone weak. Yet he also had the example of Angel being accepted as a souled vampire, so he felt that bridging the gap with a soul was the answer. If you consider how he describes his intent in going for his soul in BY, "Why does a man do what he mustn't? For her. To be hers. To be the kind of man who would nev— (looks away) to be a kind of man." it just meets this desire to be more of a man than monster, to do what he needed to be able to act within the boundaries that might have him accepted. He wouldn't want to give up his vampirism, but he did want to be accepted and knew he could have something restored to him for that. And that terminology, as was used in the original spell to ensoul Angel was what Lloyd used in Villains when Spike had asked to be returned to his former self, "DEMON: You were a legendary dark warrior, and you let yourself be castrated. (Spike looking angry) And you have the audacity to crawl in here and demand restoration?" So no, he never was a souled vampire, but asking to have William's soul restored to him, to be returned to being souled isn't wrong, he once was that. [/tangent]

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                          • #15
                            Without moving toward shipper wars, I thank you for the “once upon a time he had a soul” explanation, to becoming an ensouled vampire, which is quite ‘bendy’ of you. Hee.

                            I simply see “high school is hell” was really a show dealing with Becoming. Normal and mortal were shown in a romantic couple. I think that “process” is what Buffy shows, versus BAM! kinds of extremes that happen with Angel. Also, the “floor boards” to the tale are death/change. Equilibrium is actually death, yet seems to also be “clarity” which I tend to see shown as paradox.

                            Spike is most certainly “process” and that makes the Spuffy couple “like with like”—which may be successful for many partnerships, but also isn’t what myth is showing me. (Union of opposites).

                            I see this with Cangel and even the “needy” Nina/Angel tryst. Fred was too Dru, within the theme of “Sanctuary,” the show idea back in season 2, which would have great to see Angel comprehend he had to offer “sanctuary” to himself in order to NOT remain a vampire. I honestly thought "the 3rd time is the charm' as in fairy tale, of Season 8 would have provided the obvious conclusion to Buffy’s story in actually “growing up” and destroying the world of childhood. Guess not.

                            Striving to understand consciousness is all; and that we can join/experience it is an understanding held by Buddhists, for example, or, maybe of “joining” with God, for one IS God. But, keeping Angel “stuck” in extremes with a tenuous equilibrium—which is Buffy—Angel will be “frozen” with boredom and guilt, who are soulmates.

                            And all THAT makes the story of BTVS and ATS utterly fail “story”which really was so brilliantly presented until Joss took HIMSELF seriously instead of his art. WHICH! Is exactly BAF’s complaint in how the story changed, even in dealing with “externalities.”


                            WHICH! Is why the structure of story, especially using flagrantly great myths, even with implied promise, is critical in actually ending it, when “externalities” over run art. shown. Just kinda forgetting about people because you got busy is cripplingly lame. Afterall, death/change means “Buffy grew up: she accomplished adulthood—normal—but she is ever becoming. Angel achieving mortality is no different because he is "the forever" guy. And all that doesn’t mean B/A ‘continues’. Different world totally. He might become a priest in that world and save Darla. Hee.

                            Especially a world that didn't change in season 4 to making everyone except Xander, Dawn and Connor--the only real humans--into avatars OF them.

                            I think that flow’s idea of opposition versus mirror is very serious’ and also has to do with “knowing what to see”—sight is reflected light, in the brain is turned “right side up” to understand; and a mirror reflects a reflection, which is also backwards—which is where oppositon ‘works' and where curses can be dealt with.

                            It is in the notion of opposition why I see Spike and Buffy as impossible OTHER THAN the way season six was meant to show, but was so poorly executed on this point. (Spike was strong female principle/Buffy was weak male principle. Back in the day, “they” spoke of Buffy as being the vampire).

                            I admit, BAF, that I didn’t see Spike being “the one” for Faith; her ‘soulmate’ is Angel, for obvious reasons we all saw. But that doesn’t mean ‘meaningful’ relationships are never to be explored in Faith’s priority, which Spike himself FINALLY ! did learn ISN”T ABOUT HIM and his needy, whiny ‘need to be accepted” and whatever else drivel is heaped on this guy to ‘ever hang on in truly creepy, pathetic, fashion’ so much part of his ‘forever’ mythos that doesn’t seem to ever include the “object” of his desire over his own! This does NOT make him the “forever” soulmate guy, just because he is female PRINCIPLE. He is the POET and regularly gets his guts eaten out by literal “angels” (aka vultures).

                            Again! So many thanks all. I really do think that Being Human in US and UK also suggests this story of Faith/Spike (like with like and LEARNING that could have done a few good years. Especially with “visits” from Dru. Hee. WICKED!
                            HUGS!
                            sybil

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