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Buffy is still relevant

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  • Buffy is still relevant

    now I know this will be hotly contested but I'm glad Buffy still shows on these lists with shows that came way afterwards, I think it shows how relevant the show still is. I'm glad to see any current mentions in the press

    I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”

  • #2
    It's such a minor thing, but if the fans weren't legion, the magazines and websites wouldn't bother printing this stuff because no one would care. Of course Buffy is still relevant For me personally it gets more relevant as time goes on, as the world is in a dangerous place and we need more Buffy in the world.


    • #3
      Totally still relevant My guess is that the teens that find it now will still be finding new relateable elements for the next decade too


      • #4
        For me - the show's still relevant. In addition, I'd have said the comics were relevant (for example, look at S11 for topicality) until S12. I don't want to think what happened with 12 - pure capitulation as far as I'm concerned and I wish I knew why. I really do despair at 12. I'm borrowing my mantra from Priceless "burn it, burn it again and then salt the ground".


        • #5
          S12? There's a S12? I've paid good money to have that piece of $%&# removed from my memory

          I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”


          • #6
            There was definitely a positive message threaded into S12 to my eye, that called back to S7 for sure, that the future doesn't have to be mapped out and you can be unsure but also that it can be changed. So I take heart from that for all that I didn't like in S12, ha.

            The themes and struggles that the characters went through across the whole series were very relatable and covered such a mass of challenges that many will face through their teens and into adulthood. Social issues as well as personal and interpersonal ones were the bread and butter of the show. I can't envisage how it could fail to still be relevant as it was then, is still now and for future generations too.


            • #7
              Stoney "the future doesn't have to be mapped out"

              But her future WAS mapped out - she ends up in a career foretold by a test that (for want of a better word) measured her personality, her aptitude.* She only took the test because Snyder wanted her "jumping through hoops". Who else "tested" her and "measured" her abilities? Quentin and the Watcher's Council. The whole of S7 sought to undermine - or at least question - the fundamental beliefs of the Enlightenment - particularly reason and the scientific method. The Chosen Spell was the opposite of scientific method. Giles says as much: "Buffy, what you said, it—it flies in the face of everything we've ever—every generation has ever done in the fight against evil. (smiles) I think it's bloody brilliant". It had never been tested.

              The wheel Spike and Xander are bled on, the contraption that opens the seal and releases evil looks a lot like da Vinci's Vitruvian Man sketch to me. Vitruvian Man became a symbol of The Enlightenment - "Man is the measure of all things". What do we get at the end of S12? Men being the measure of all things. "I'm going to be a fireman when the floods roll back." Just having her join the fire service instead of the police would have been a start!

              IMO, it goes back to S7 and completely unravels the progress it made.

              *Who took advantage of these tests - shady Government/Corporation agents. Who's Andrew been consulting with in S12? World Governments. Government/Corporations were the Big Bad in S11. I've changed my mind...S12 might be relevant but, to my mind, bloody depressing.
              Last edited by TriBel; 14-02-20, 01:07 AM.


              • #8
                But she was forming a new slayer arm of the police force, that was the purpose for which she'd joined with Faith, to create something that hadn't existed before because she thought it would tie what she had been doing for the past few seasons together in a way she wanted, combining working with the police with being the slayer. And if it didn't work, if she didn't like it, she doesn't have to stay. Again something new and untested but is how she envisions things could be.


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TriBel View Post

                  IMO, it goes back to S7 and completely unravel the progress it made.
                  That's the point of the comics in general, one might say. They take everything the show tried to say and turned it on its head. s840chen.jpg


                  • #10
                    She and Faith graduate...believe me, you don't graduate by teaching an Institution something new. They teach you. Buffy and Spike were consultants (weren't they?). Consultants advise - in a sense, they're the experts. Sherlock Holmes (just an example) wasn't Police... he was the first "consulting detective" (and treated the police with disdain)*. He had much more autonomy. S11 begins with B&S consulting and they're so happy working together. In addition "graduate" also means "measure" (though TBH, I think that's just kinda coincidence so I'm not making an issue of it ). My dislike for S12 has nothing to do with Spuffy...I just don't like what they do with Buffy. I don't have that much interest in her as a character but, as a feminist icon (which is what she's always held up to be), I think she was in a much stronger position at the end of S7 than she is at the end of S12. S7 finishes with hope and her enigmatic smile. S12, for me, should finish on the penultimate frame and the look of trepidation on her face. I can't take anything positive from S12.

                    *Strangely, there's a reference to Holmes in the Giles mini - he says "I had to be a detective" or something similar.

                    Oh...floods rolling back and fireman - seems to me to be an allusion to Noah...I want to know why, on the last page of S12, they all seem to have come out of the ark house - 2x2.

                    And's just occurred to me that the UK Government holds no truck with experts (was it Gove who said it?), while in the States Trump is (in his opinion) the "expert" in everything. Recent events in both countries suggest that what Governments want is "yes" men and women. Maybe Whedon was prescient? I'm even more depressed now.
                    Last edited by TriBel; 14-02-20, 01:56 AM.


                    • #11
                      I don't know, she's carving something new that combines the main elements of her life and introduces a new integration of the two she was always warring with balancing, possibly creating a melding she hasn't managed yet. Accepting graduating into the police, but to create a new arm to it. I haven't reread it yet but as I remember there was very much a feeling of this being a stage to get through to what they wanted to then create. Obviously in keeping there with the sense of development and stages that the show has always been depicting. But the final emphasis in the text is that it is worth taking the trouble to change things, 'the trouble with changing the world... is worth it'. Or something close to that, I haven't checked the quote. And of course in that is the message that nothing is static and you can change things for the better. So she is not going to be held to or limited by what she is currently trying to do. Much like the magic council that came and went and may still be there in the background that she's a part of, and the watchers council that she currently isn't directly working with but obviously has connections to. She's interested in carving this at the moment and if it works for her and produces good integration, then great. If not she won't be constrained by it. Personally I find quite a lot of positives in there. But to each his own. I know my leaning is to try to find a throughline that works for me and resolves me to the text, but I understand others not wanting to look at it like that.

                      My biggest issue with what S12 said about Buffy herself was the implication that they felt they could only show her as a strong and independent woman if she was single. Not because they had currently broken her up from Spike specifically, because they spent a heck of a lot of page time making their importance to each other clear and laying in the possibility it might not be a permanent separation. But because there was no good reason she couldn't 'have it all'. Being in a relationship doesn't make her weak or make her incapable of making life choices for herself and if they hadn't wanted to split them up and show that all possibilities in life still lay before her (which obviously would still have been true even if they were still together because there would have been nothing to say that it was permanent), they could have actually focussed more page time to what she was choosing/thinking and why. By breaking them up so much of the final season was about her ongoing feelings for Spike and Angel that it made the final season more about her romances than it needed to be if she'd still been in an established committed relationship.


                      • #12
                        I have so many problems with S12 but dont even get me started on buffy ending up as a police officer. Buffy was always a rogue agent, the thought that she would conform and answer to the epitome of the male infrastructure that rules our world is an insult. Remember, you can't change the beast from inside the belly, hello? Season 5 angel already taught us this rule.

                        I like who I am when I’m with him. I like who we are together.”


                        • #13
                          Nothing is a set rule though. If it doesn't work as she's thinking, then she won't stick with it. But you can't change things by deciding you can't.