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Is calling Angel a pedo a thing of the "woke generation"?

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  • #76
    Originally posted by bespangled View Post
    Yes, she is the slayer. Yes, she has responsibilites. In reality there are a lot of teens with huge responsibilities. There are 16 year olds out there who bag groceries and babysit to help support their families. There are 16 year olds raising their siblings, dealing with alcoholic and abusive parents. And there are 16 year old girls raising their own children because a grown man slept with them and then left them to deal with the consequences.
    I think these are really good real-life comparisons to Buffy. There are many 16 year olds out there in tragic circumstances, being saddled with adult responsibilities and placed in real adult situations. Does this negate the fact that they are still teenagers or make it okay for men or women 10+ years older than them to pursue relationships with them?

    Originally posted by HardlyThere View Post
    She ISN'T very much like a high school girl.
    Yes, she is. She tries to be on the cheerleading squad, she engages in vapid high school popularity contests, has immature, very high-school-ish moments of jealousy towards Cordelia and Faith, she mopes about an insignificant career fair. If Buffy wasn’t very much like a high school girl, the premise of the first three seasons falls apart completely as the show is, in-part, a HIGH SCHOOL drama with a main character in HIGH SCHOOL.

    Originally posted by HardlyThere
    Which all goes to say that your initial premise of "hurr what did this world-traveled vampire see in this high school chick" is rather a pointless statement.
    It’s not a pointless statement. It is my opinion that is relevant to this thread, which is about the age difference between them. Yet you kept strawmanning and trying to turn it into some debate about commonalities in relationships, which is not the point that I was trying to make as I have stated repeatedly.

    Originally posted by HardlyThere
    The BTVS narrative treats the characters as though they are adults even in the early seasons.
    No, it doesn't. The characters are often put into adult situations and they are played by adult actors, but the narrative doesn't treat them as adults. The whole point of the show in S1-S3 is the trials of ADOLESCENCE, as many of the creators have said.

    GILES: “You’re behaving remarkably immaturely.”
    BUFFY: “You know why? I *am* immature. I’m a teen. I have yet to mature.”

    If Buffy herself admits she can be a immature teenager, then I don’t see why it’s such a problem for other people to acknowledge that she can be a immature teenager. That's not simplifying or infantalizing her, that's stating a fact.

    Originally posted by HardlyThere
    Wow, that's some telling stuff.
    It really isn't.

    Originally posted by HardlyThere
    All of which has nothing to do with her being the leader
    Of course, it has nothing to do with her being a leader. Buffy as a leader wasn’t a topic of discussion. Your question was:

    What times were we supposed to question Buffy's dealings in matters of the job?
    I responded by listing the numerous times in which Buffy messed up or had skewed priorities when it came to her dealings in matters of the job due to her immaturity and/or her mental health issues, which (surprise!) are not mutually exclusive.

    Originally posted by HardlyThere
    and all but 1 has to do with her vagina getting in the way...
    Buffy struggling in college has nothing to do with her vagina getting in the way. Buffy lashing out at everyone around her in very immature, high-school-ish ways at the beginning of S2 wasn’t about her vagina getting in the way. My post wasn’t a critique on her femininity or her vagina getting in the way, but whatever supports your deflections and strawman arguments...

    Originally posted by HardlyThere
    That's exactly what you are doing when you claim she's just a 16yo kid.
    Nowhere did I claim she was JUST a 16yo kid. I wrote whole paragraphs on the nuances on her character and how she can be both a capable soldier AND a young person with the flaws of a young person. YOU are the one simplifying her character by denying the fact that she’s still a young girl and making the claim that anyone who acknowledges the fact that she is a teenager is “infantalizing her”.

    Originally posted by HardlyThere
    Hmm... It's almost as if you are saying exactly what I said. Buffy is fine to make decisions... Except romantic ones.
    Originally posted by HardlyThere
    The things you suggest mitigate Buffy's ability to make decisions never stop.
    Please tell me where I said Buffy had no ability to make decisions.

    Originally posted by HardlyThere
    Angel isn't a pedo or sexual predator. Buffy isn't some little kid who can't make decisions.
    This is where we agree.
    Last edited by Andrew S.; 06-02-20, 02:03 AM.


    • #77
      Originally posted by Hunga Munga View Post

      In general I despise backdating 2020 awareness onto culture from another century though . I just don't see no fruit in it .

      Wholeheartedly agree.


      • #78
        Originally posted by Quake View Post

        Wholeheartedly agree.
        Except that this complaint actually started while the show was on. It's not backdated. It's just become more universal.
        Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.