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More impressive: Spike vs. "Get It Done" (B 7.15) demon or Faith vs. The Beast?

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  • More impressive: Spike vs. "Get It Done" (B 7.15) demon or Faith vs. The Beast?

    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.




    * Faith does better against the Beast than the combined forces of Angel, Lorne, handgun-toting Wesley, and axe-wielding Gunn did against the Beast. But she's bloodied and bruised and such afterward and she doesn't kill the Beast. ("Salvage" (A 4.13)).


    * Spike before he puts on his 'Spike costume' was relatively easily beaten by the "Get It Done" (B 7.15) demon. That demon easily beat the combined efforts of 'holding back Spike', 'holding back Willow', Wood, Kennedy, and Xander. It's implied that magic cannot be done against the Beast.

    Spike kills the "Get It Done" (B 7.15) demon after Spike 'becomes Spike' again.

    I don't know whether the "GtD" demon is similar to much less comparable to the Beast (from Angel ).
    5
    Spike vs. "Get It Done" demon
    0.00%
    0
    Faith vs. the Beast from AtS
    100.00%
    5
    I don't know/I don't care
    0.00%
    0
    Last edited by MikeB; 29-11-19, 09:43 AM. Reason: changed the Faith, Spike, and Willow parts

  • #2
    Spike was great against the Get It Done demon, but Faith was better against a much stronger opponent.

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    • #3
      Spike killed the GID beast. Angel used Rocky to weaken Faith, and then killed it. I think Faith did a superb job and overall I love this arc, but I have to give the cred to Spike for this arc.
      Can we agree that the writers made everyone do and say everything with a thought to getting good ratings and being renewed. This includes everything we love as well as everything we hate.

      Comment


      • #4
        All caught up.

        All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.





        Originally posted by Priceless View Post
        Spike was great against the Get It Done demon, but Faith was better against a much stronger opponent.
        BtVS S7 Willow is more powerful than Jasmine Cordeila. BtVS S7 Willow it seems couldn't do magic against the "Get It Done" (B 7.15) demon. It doesn't seem BtVS S7 Faith would have beaten the Turok-han. BtVS S7 Willow would have relatively easily beaten the Turok-han. She could have magically trapped it and then magically burned it.


        "Crush" (B 5.14) Buffy could send Spike 'flying'. The Beast may be stronger than the "Get It Done" (B 7.15) demon. But much stronger? The Beast is lumbering and swings much slower than the "GiD" demon swings.

        Spike is considerably more durable than Faith.

        Have we seen BtVS S7 or earlier Faith punch through demons?

        Faith in "Release" (A 4.14) punches through the shower drywall or concrete, but not the brick--or whatever--behind it. Even Xander can punch his hand through drywall. Either Faith was severely weakened by her fight with the Beast or she wasn't actually hitting the shower wall hard.

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        • #5
          I voted for Faith vs The Beast.

          Whilst Spike defeated his opponent the demon in Get it Done wasn't said to be especially strong or formidable. Based on what little we saw of it, it was certainly stronger than your everyday run-of-the-mill demon but probably similar in power to Lagos from Revelations or The Keeper in Peace Out. I'd guess it was weaker than the torture demon in Underneath or Skip in Inside Out.

          Whereas whilst Faith did lose to her opponent The Beast was said to be extraordinarily powerful. The Beast was indestructible to practically any kind of weapon and could only be defeated by a dagger made of it's own flesh. The Beast had faced Team Angel on two separate occasions and withstood Angel's sword, Gunn's axe, Wesley's firearms, and Gwen's electricity powers. Angel did briefly manage to bring The Beast to it's knees in Apocalypse Nowish but it seemed more blindsided by Angel's relentlessness than in any serious pain. Wesley's shotgun also briefly dropped The Beast to it's knees but it seemed to be playing with Wesley. To sum up; The Beast was incredibly formidable and strong. However, Faith actually hurt The Beast. Not only does Faith showcase some extremely impressive and agile moves but when she performs a scorpion kick to The Beast's face it actually groans in pain and staggers backwards, which prompts Angelus to exclaim "Nice!" It was the first time The Beast had visibly been hurt in a fight and The Beast is noticeably agitated and angered by this.

          So considering that The Beast could withstand blows from any weapon and was not at all fazed by either Angel or Connor's supernatural strength, I believe it was more impressive that Faith managed to hurt it and I voted for Faith vs The Beast. Faith's fighting technique was also more impressive throughout her fight (she does that amazing backflip when she launches herself off The Beast and the scorpion kick was very cool) whereas Spike's fight was more of a dirty brawl.
          Last edited by vampmogs; 30-11-19, 03:31 AM.
          "The earth is doomed!" - Banner by Nina

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          • #6
            I haven't watched either recently enough to feel I can judge but I'd also add in that Spike's fight is about him getting reconnected to the desire to fight again and be formidable, that doesn't require it to be the most spectacular fight he's ever had, the most impressive, just one that he manages to get totally into enjoying again despite not relishing the violence as he had when soulless.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by MikeB View Post
              All caught up.

              All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.





              BtVS S7 Willow is more powerful than Jasmine Cordeila. BtVS S7 Willow it seems couldn't do magic against the "Get It Done" (B 7.15) demon. It doesn't seem BtVS S7 Faith would have beaten the Turok-han. BtVS S7 Willow would have relatively easily beaten the Turok-han. She could have magically trapped it and then magically burned it.


              "Crush" (B 5.14) Buffy could send Spike 'flying'. The Beast may be stronger than the "Get It Done" (B 7.15) demon. But much stronger? The Beast is lumbering and swings much slower than the "GiD" demon swings.

              Spike is considerably more durable than Faith.

              Have we seen BtVS S7 or earlier Faith punch through demons?

              Faith in "Release" (A 4.14) punches through the shower drywall or concrete, but not the brick--or whatever--behind it. Even Xander can punch his hand through drywall. Either Faith was severely weakened by her fight with the Beast or she wasn't actually hitting the shower wall hard.
              We have seen Faith defeat Angel/Angelus twice arguably 3 times. In Revelations/In 5by5 (though she was trying to get him to kill her) and in Release. We saw Angel kick the crap out of Spike in In the Dark and in Destiny he says it was the first time ever Spike won a fight. So yeah I'd go with Faith.

              - - - Updated - - -

              Originally posted by Stoney View Post
              I haven't watched either recently enough to feel I can judge but I'd also add in that Spike's fight is about him getting reconnected to the desire to fight again and be formidable, that doesn't require it to be the most spectacular fight he's ever had, the most impressive, just one that he manages to get totally into enjoying again despite not relishing the violence as he had when soulless.
              Lol you always say you need to watch them but never do

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BtVS fan View Post
                Lol you always say you need to watch them but never do
                Nah I just don't do it fast and we just seem to constantly be talking about the later/final seasons. The rewatch is slow and I don't watch out of chronological sequence, but I have a separate rewatch I'm doing with a relative that hasn't seen the show before. We started that in 2017 and we watch an episode every week so we've finally caught up and overtaken the rewatch now. We're doing the BtVS/AtS combo, so it won't be long before I see both of these fights again and then go on to AtS 5.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                  Nah I just don't do it fast and we just seem to constantly be talking about the later/final seasons. The rewatch is slow and I don't watch out of chronological sequence, but I have a separate rewatch I'm doing with a relative that hasn't seen the show before. We started that in 2017 and we watch an episode every week so we've finally caught up and overtaken the rewatch now. We're doing the BtVS/AtS combo, so it won't be long before I see both of these fights again and then go on to AtS 5.
                  How far you up to now then?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    All caught up.

                    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.




                    http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...l=1#post696517



                    * It seems it’s mostly because the Beast has a ‘rock body’ that Faith is so bloodied and bruised by the Beast.

                    Post Love Spell Jasmine is much stronger, but apparently cannot strike near as hard as a weakened Spike can in “Destiny” (A 5.08). I’m not sure how that makes sense unless Post Love Spell Jasmine’s body is relatively very soft—which could make sense given what she actually looks like.


                    * Spike would have done better against the Beast simply because he can much better ‘take’ blunt force trauma than Faith can.


                    * I’m trying to determine whether I should increase pre-Season 10 Faith’s rank.

                    I don’t see evidence that pre-Seaosn 10 Faith is more formidable than BtVS S7 Anyanka and certainly not UberVamp #1.

                    The Beast had a rock body and strikes hard. Is its body actually stronger than Adam’s? BtVS S4 Spike hurt his hand when he punched Adam in the stomach (“New Moon Rising” (B 4.19)).

                    We see in BtVS S6 that Spike and Buffy can punch through demon bodies. “Smashed” (B 6.09) argues they possibly could punch through or otherwise break the Beast’s skin, especially given both are more powerful in BtVS S7 than they were in BtVS S6.



                    * I might put pre-Season 10 Faith above Post Love Spell Jasmine.

                    I don’t recall any evidence that Faith wouldn’t have be affected by Lothos’s hypo-beams. We still don’t know if Buffy wouldn’t be affected by Drusilla’s hypo-beams.





                    vampmogs

                    * A weakened state Spike beats Angel in “Destiny” (A 5.08). Comparing Angel’s feats against various opponents—including the Beast—is not helping your ‘Faith did better’ argument.

                    In fact, arguably that weakened state Spike did better against Angel than the Beast did.

                    The only impressive thing in “Reign of Fire” (A 4.07) as compared to Buffy is the Beast is not affected by Wesley’s handgun bullet fire and shotgun fire.

                    Given that fight, Spike would have done around just as well or even better against that version of the Fang Gang.

                    If Buffy weren’t caught unawares by Wesley’s bullets, she could relatively easily killed all of that version of the Fang Gang.


                    * Angel easily beats Skip after striking him with a metal chain. Skip is easily defeated by simply striking with something around as hard as Skip’s armor. Angel with a ‘chain glove’ is able to knock Skip out.

                    Skip never knocks Angel out.

                    Buffy in BtVS S6 can bend metal prison bars. Spike and she are around equal in their half-serious fight in “Smashed” (B 6.09). It’s possible that Buffy and Spike wouldn’t need to fight Skip with metal to beat Skip.

                    For some reason, Skip isn’t affected by ‘stabbing’ with metal or Wesley’s bullets but is affected by ‘blunt force trauma’ with metal.


                    * Actions and demonstrations are what matters—not words that aren’t backed up by the actual canon. I had simply decided to place the Beast near Caleb because the Beast was Angel S4’s version of Caleb. The actual evidence and canon place the Beast far lower than Caleb.


                    * The Beast could be punctured by anything as strong or stronger than its own flesh. Buffy’s Scythe counts and that’s why she’s placed above the Beast.

                    And those above Buffy simply have the strength and power to break through the Beast’s skin.

                    Not only does Faith showcase some extremely impressive and agile moves but when she performs a scorpion kick to The Beast's face it actually groans in pain and staggers backwards, which prompts Angelus to exclaim "Nice!"
                    The Beast was making ‘fight grunting’ noises. I’m not sure it was pain. But I’ve already said elsewhere that Faith did better against the Beast than the “Reign of Fire” (A 4.07) version of the Fang Gang did.

                    So considering that The Beast could withstand blows from any weapon and was not at all fazed by either Angel or Connor's supernatural strength,
                    Angel and Connor aren’t comparable to Spike.

                    Fighting technique only matters when it helps you win a fight.



                    BtVS fan

                    * Spike vs. Angel can be discussed here: http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...l=1#post696517


                    * Spike in “Touched” (B 7.20) relatively easily beats Faith and he was simply trying to find out where Buffy is. Which he already can by simply following her scent. And Spike and Buffy both know he can kill Faith if he wants to.

                    Spike’s beating Faith and Spike’s beating Angel aren’t accomplishments for Spike. They aren’t challenges.



                    Stoney

                    * You STILL haven’t seen all of Angel ? I’d assumed you finished watching Angel years(?) ago.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BtVS fan View Post
                      How far you up to now then?
                      I last watched CWDP/Apocalypse Nowish. This week it's actually a two BtVS week as we're following the air dates and they were all over the place in the combination of S7 to S4. It's Sleeper and Never Leave Me this week then Bring on the Night and Showtime the week after before the next Angel ep. It works for the crossover timings, where they occur, and so far following the air dates has worked well for matching themes between the coupled eps.

                      Originally posted by MikeB View Post
                      * You STILL haven’t seen all of Angel ? I’d assumed you finished watching Angel years(?) ago.
                      Yes I've watched all of Angel before, but this is the first time I've rewatched it all and I'm up to S4.

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