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  • #16
    I still like to believe that Spike and Dru : “Paint the Town Red” is canon and that possibly Spike and Dru : “Queen of Hearts” is canon. I like to believe that Juliet Landau’s Drusilla comics for IDW are canon. Joss had said that “Paint the Town Red” and Douglas Petrie’s Ring of Fire are canon, but Scott Allie doesn’t list them in the Buffyverse canon.


    Other than those, I put my reasoning into things so that they can make sense:

    * I maintain that the Powers That Be – or possibly Twilight – brought Buffy back to life in “Prophecy Girl” (1.12). The way Buffy ‘pops’ back to life fully aware and then seconds later coughs up the water, makes it highly unlikely that it was actually Xander’s CPR that brought her back to life. Also, she’s stronger and more powerful, something that doesn’t make much sense if she was just revived through CPR.

    * I maintain that in “Becoming Part II” (2.22), Spike actually broke Drusilla’s neck or something and she became unconscious because of physical trauma and not a lack of oxygen.

    * I maintain that Spike did some kind of spell so that Acathla would only swallow the area, or the mansion, or maybe all of Sunnydale. Otherwise, Dru being unconscious because of lack of oxygen makes no sense and Spike hauling out of the mansion makes no sense if Acathla is still going to be able to swallow the world (if Buffy fails).

    * I maintain that Buffy’s ‘had a thing’ for Spike since “School Hard” (2.03). It’s the only reasonable explanation for why she didn’t kill him and for why she didn’t do a de-invite on him after “Becoming Part II” (2.22). It’s also the only reasonable explanation for why she didn’t kill vampire Harmony.

    * I maintain that Drusilla is stronger than Kendra, Spike, Angel, Faith, and possibly Buffy. We actually saw her being stronger than Kendra, Angel, and Faith (in A&F).

    * I maintain that Drusilla is the most powerful vampire in the Buffyverse.

    * I maintain that it’s Spike’s just being made corporeal and Harmony’s drinking of him that made him in “Destiny” (A 5.12) not beat Angel more easily and is the reason that somehow he still had damage from that fight days later. Otherwise, the fight makes no sense, Angel being able to punch Spike hard enough to make his mouth bleed makes no sense, and Spike still showing damage days after that fight makes no sense. Buffy since perhaps “Becoming Part II” (2.22) is never shown to be able to hit Spike hard enough to make his mouth bleed. Spike healed quicker from Glory’s torture. And full-powered Illyria only made his mouth bleed after kicking him into a wall.


    * I like to believe that William Pratt (Spike) still owns his estate and I like to believe that he has a lot of money somewhere. William seemed to be a member of the peerage and it seems the estate would go to him. And Spike talked about how he gave Drusilla jewels all the time and such. So, where would all those assets go? Spike wanted to live as a punk but does that really mean he incredibly stupidly decided to make himself a pauper?

    * I like to believe that Angel used that bank robber’s money to lease the Hyperion and that ultimately that one billionaire guy financed Angel’s purchase of the Hyperion. Otherwise, it makes around zero sense that Angel and Co. could have afforded that place.

    * I like to believe that AtS Angel/Darla and Angel/Cordelia are because of Jasmine.

    _________________

    * Faith was ‘promiscuous’ only in relation to the Scoobies. On AtS, it’s implied that Wesley was sleeping around and yet no one faults him for that. Faith’s issues on BtVS is about completely her-compared-to-Buffy: Faith’s socioeconomic background compared to Buffy, Faith’s mother compared to Buffy’s mother, Faith’s father compared to Buffy’s father (meaning Giles), Faith’s relationships compared to Buffy’s, Faith’s Watchers compared to Buffy’s Watchers. Faith ‘sleeping around’ doesn’t mean that she was sexually abused. And the guys from her area of Boston were maybe not the best ‘winners’ in terms of relationship-material.

    Their backgrounds and experiences are what separate Buffy from Faith. It’s quite telling that once Faith has a mentor (Angel) that by the time of “Dirty Girls” (7.18), Faith can credibly ask if she’s now the good Slayer to Buffy’s bad Slayer. It’s quite telling that once Faith has a good father figure (Giles) in BtVS S8 Faith seemed more ‘evolved’ than Buffy. And although
    Spoiler:
    she’s being too much of an Angel apologist in A&F, she’s remarkably emotionally stable and is able to mentor Slayers in a way that seems superior to how Buffy was able to mentor the Potentials in BtVS S7.


    * Faith liking to ‘be on top’ simply could be that that’s her favorite position. It’s a lot of women’s favorite position. Faith ‘freaking out’ with Riley could simply be because Riley thought she was Buffy.

    * Faith doesn’t have trust issues. She’s immediately gregarious and open with the Scoobies and pretty much at the first opportunity tells Buffy what happened to her Watcher. If anything, she was too trusting re: Gwendolyn Post and Mayor Wilkins. Even Giles made her an assassin and that was for something that benefited Buffy and Giles also didn’t tell Faith about the SuperSlayer and SuperVampire Prophecy.



    vampmogs

    in AtS S4 Faith is attacked in prison by an inmate called "Deb" who is wielding a Bringer knife. Now, it's quite obvious that the First sent her to kill Faith but the actress who plays Deb is actually the same actress who plays Patrice, the Order of Taraka assassin who opens fire in Sunnydale High in BtVS S2. My own personal canon is that Patrice and Deb are actually infact the same person and that the First hired a Taraka assassin to take out Faith.
    I always believed this.

    ________

    Cecily became Halfrek later on. The first flashback of Cecily as a vengeance demon was during the 1905 Russian Revolution.

    Spike's leather duster was boxed up in the school basement (Get it Done) because Buffy held onto it after he left it on her banister in Seeing Red, and she returned it to him at some point in S7 when he was crazy and living underneath Sunnydale High.
    This is the only reasonable explanation. I actually believe that she probably wore it at points and even slept in it. She obviously had been missing Spike.

    In Restless, during Buffy's dream she opens up an old leather bag which has the primordial ooze inside of it. Buffy paints it on her face which represents the primal Slayer/demon inside of her. This leather bag looks almost identical to Nikki Wood's leather bag in Get It Done which contained the origin story of the First Slayer (the shadow puppets) and was meant to be a Slayer keepsake and passed down through the generations. It's my personal canon that it is in fact the same bag and that Buffy was dreaming of the keepsake which would reveal where her power came from. It's simply too symbolic for me to think of it as just a coincidence, although I know it probably was.
    That’s fantastic. I never thought of that.

    - Dawn generally feels neglected and ignored by the gang, especially in S5,
    Huh? Dawn was feeling neglected and ignored in BtVS S5. And she was being neglected and ignored by all but Tara.

    Dawn would pretty much only have affected Hank, Joyce, and Buffy Summers. The other Scoobies would know about Dawn, but wouldn’t she wouldn’t be involved in Scooby things. Maybe Angel threatened Dawn. Maybe Dawn was there when Spike was there in “Becoming Part II” (2.22), though she could have also been at a friend’s house. Maybe Dawn was there in “Lovers Walk” (3.08), though she could have been somewhere else.

    I’m generally not a fan of that retcon in Normal Again because there are too many instances in the earlier seasons where Buffy referenced Vampire Slaying and Joyce barely reacted at all, but in Ted it actually works.
    There really isn’t. The one main time was when Buffy had the fever and was in the hospital.

    ________________________________________________

    Well, the ‘production reason’ for Hank’s absence is because Joss wanted to make Giles Buffy’s ‘father’. Hank in BtVS S1-4 seems possible. After Joyce died, not so much. The guy doesn’t even go to the funeral, and he has Buffy taking care of Dawn. Although, I maintain that Hank continued to pay Buffy’s credit cards and that’s the reason why Buffy and Dawn were able to wear such nice clothing and still live relatively well.



    TimeTravellingBunny

    in fact, if Halfrek is Cecily, then it is canon that she was already a demon when she met William in 1880, since she mentions in Selfless that she was with Anyanka in Russia during the Crimean war (1853-1856).
    No, she doesn’t. They were in the Russian Revolution of 1905.

    _______________

    Spike within a few days healed from Glory’s torture. And Spike in “Dead Things” (6.13) let Buffy beat on him and didn’t want her turning herself in. There was no reason that Buffy thought that Spike was breaking up with her and no longer wanted to be with her.



    Emmie

    In "Get It Done," after Spike's been tossed through the ceiling and Dawn says "I'll go check on him," when he comes back down again to join the gang discussing a plan, he and Dawn share this strange tension. It makes me think that when she checked on him upstairs and he finally came to, she basically berated him for being a great big failure (something like "what are you good for anyways?"). Hence, giving him even more motivation to kill the demon and get Buffy back.
    That doesn’t make sense. She volunteered to check up on him, which means she no longer hated him as much as she did in “Beneath You” (7.02). Also, it doesn’t make sense because Spike had helped her out in BtVS S5 and is perhaps the only reason she survived in “Bargaining” (6.01). The tension could simply be because Spike – seeing Dawn’s concern for him – tried to mend their relationship and that maybe offended and/or angered Dawn or whatever.
    Last edited by MikeB; 27-11-12, 09:43 AM. Reason: I missed doing the [/b] for TimeTravellingBunny

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    • #17
      Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post

      Originally Posted by vampmogs
      I just thought of another one! I've always pretty much assumed that Faith was been sexually abused as a child. It has never been confirmed but she shows all the signs


      I believe that, too. There seem to be lots of hints to that effect.
      Since I'm a big Faith fan I read the book "Go Ask Malice" which tells the story of Faith at the age of 15 before she went to Sunnydale. It's pretty interesting because the book reveals a lot of background information (e.g. where she got the tattoo etc.).

      Well, as far as I remember (I read the book a longer time ago) it's not specifically mentioned that Faith was abused sexually. You have to know her mother didn't care about her at all. She was a drug addict and a prostitute. Her so called boyfriend was her procurer and got her the drugs, too. In one scene the mother's boyfriend tries to touch Faith but they're interrupted and well.. you know Faith, she was a tough kid. She had to be. At that time Faith thinks her father is dead because her mother told her so, but later it's revealed that he was in prison all along (just saying because some of you wondered whether he was the one who abused her). Faith visited him once. She got her "Five by five" from him btw.

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      • #18
        I personally believe that the "very dark power... about to rise in Sunnydale" that caused Mr. Zabuto to send Kendra there was not Drusilla, but Angelus.

        In that case it seems a little odd that she would leave after the healing ritual was stopped in WML2, but I think that departure was weird regardless of why Kendra was in Sunnydale in the first place. Even if her job was to stop the ritual, Kendra didn't know that - otherwise she would have told Buffy and Giles the first chance she got - so there was no reason for her to leave of her own accord after (apparently) stopping it. And there was no reason for her Watcher to bring her back regardless of what her mission was: from her perspective it looked like she'd stopped the ritual, but by any metaphysical or mystical standards she clearly didn't; she didn't kill Drusilla or Spike; she didn't kill Angel. So I think her heading home after WML2 is difficult to explain, period.

        I choose to believe that Kendra's Watcher was reading portents of Angelus, even if he didn't know exactly what he was seeing and thus couldn't tell Kendra anything substantial. Although it was probably not what the writers intended, this (mis)interpretation makes Kendra's arrival and departure a little more ominous on rewatch.
        Buffy: It sounds like it's difficult for you. Maybe your sister makes it hard for you to establish your own identity. You said she's controlling, she doesn't let you make your own decisions -
        Dawn: Yeah, and she borrows my clothes without asking.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by MikeB View Post
          Cecily became Halfrek later on. The first flashback of Cecily as a vengeance demon was during the 1905 Russian Revolution.
          Originally posted by me
          in fact, if Halfrek is Cecily, then it is canon that she was already a demon when she met William in 1880, since she mentions in Selfless that she was with Anyanka in Russia during the Crimean war (1853-1856).
          Originally posted by MikeB View Post
          TimeTravellingBunny

          No, she doesn’t. They were in the Russian Revolution of 1905.
          Yes, she does. Although I got the episode the quote comes from wrong - it's not in Selfless, but in Lessons.

          HALFREK
          Listen, Anya. I know I've always been a little competitive with you. I mean, there was that thing in the Crimean War. We laugh about it now. But the fact is, I've actually always looked up to you. You were the single-most hard-core vengeance demon on the roster, and everybody knew it. Do I have to mention Mrs. Cholgash?

          ANYA
          Hmm. Ha. Good times.
          You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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          • #20
            Ah, just thought of a couple. I always assume that (1) other demons/vamps cleared out the treasure whilst Spike was distracted over the gem of Amara. Originally I considered that he may have squirrelled some away and that was the source of the money he was referring to with Buffy in the doublemeat palace but I work on the basis that (2) that is actually why he agreed to be involved with the demon eggs in his crypt (with whoever the doctor really was) and it was this sort of scheme he meant, or gambling poker, pool etc. I think that if he did have money already available from the treasure he may have tried to pass some on to Dawn in S6 as Buffy refused or it would have come up in S7 with him living in and the cost of all the potentials etc. So I assume he is without hidden wealth and that he missed his opportunity with the treasure because of his focus on the gem.
            Last edited by Stoney; 27-10-12, 02:48 PM.

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            • #21
              Its always in my personal canon that not EVERYONE would have left Sunnydale before it collapsed. I mean that guy was still in his house.

              I also feel that there was some bonding time between Andrew and Dawn and Buffy and Andrew which happened in offscreen-ville
              Last edited by BuffySpike; 27-10-12, 08:36 PM.
              Bonehead, carrot top, shirty & dope
              the nonsensical vocabulary of Buffy and Spike

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              • #22
                I have images now of Titanic-esque old dears huddled together just waiting to see it out.

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                • #23
                  Ok is it wrong that made me laugh slightly?
                  Bonehead, carrot top, shirty & dope
                  the nonsensical vocabulary of Buffy and Spike

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by BuffySpike View Post
                    Its always in my personal canon that not EVERYONE would have left Sunnydale before it collapsed. I mean that guy was still in his house.

                    I also feel that there was some bonding time between Andrew and Dawn and Buffy and Andrew which happened in offscreen-ville
                    S8 Spoilers

                    Spoiler:
                    Well we know Amy and Warren didn't leave Sunnydale. General Voll's men find them down in the Sunnydale crater in #1!
                    "The earth is doomed!" - Banner by Nina

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
                      S8 Spoilers

                      Spoiler:
                      Well we know Amy and Warren didn't leave Sunnydale. General Voll's men find them down in the Sunnydale crater in #1!
                      And the million dollar question is

                      Spoiler:
                      what they were eating all those years?

                      Banner by Moscow Watcher

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                      • #26
                        Personally I see the comics as canon but more like a spiritual successor. They don't really seem like a proper continuation of the show in my eyes. A sort of emotional reset button has been pushed with each character in the comics so that they could still develop the characters in a story sense after the show. By the end of season 7 they had all pretty much reached the end of their development. By the time the comics start and we meet our characters, what happened in S7 (in developmental terms) has gone back on itself for example
                        Spoiler:
                        the interactions between Buffy and Faith, the interactions between Spike and Buffy, the interactions between Dawn and Buffy
                        and Joss did say that if he would continue the TV show from where it left off and could get the entire cast back for it he would be perfectly happy changing everything he has created with the comics, he would toss it aside with ease to take the show where he would want it to go. It wouldn't be the same. They are two very different mediums.
                        Last edited by BuffySpike; 28-10-12, 02:22 PM.
                        Bonehead, carrot top, shirty & dope
                        the nonsensical vocabulary of Buffy and Spike

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          That won't happen though . JM I'm sure has said that he doesn't feel he could play Spike anymore. And he is right, as great as he still looks, he has aged too far from the show for it to work now. Although they did just bravely ignored the blatant physical changes in DB that happened from BtVS 1 to AtS 5 there should come a limit eventually!! They could of course pick it up x years after NFA and have them both shanshued...

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                            That won't happen though . JM I'm sure has said that he doesn't feel he could play Spike anymore. And he is right, as great as he still looks, he has aged too far from the show for it to work now. Although they did just bravely ignored the blatant physical changes in DB that happened from BtVS 1 to AtS 5 there should come a limit eventually!! They could of course pick it up x years after NFA and have them both shanshued...
                            Oddly enough, DB would be physically more suitable to play Angel now than he was in AtS season 5 - at least the last time I watched a Bones episode, he looked very fit and slimmer than in most AtS seasons. But he wouldn't, since he's busy with his current show.
                            You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              True, I did think when I saw an ad for Bones recently that he looked younger than he did in AtS 5. But having just finished rewatching S1 of BtVS, not showing him ageing drastically because he is a vamp is a ship that has already sailed.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                                That won't happen though . JM I'm sure has said that he doesn't feel he could play Spike anymore. And he is right, as great as he still looks, he has aged too far from the show for it to work now. Although they did just bravely ignored the blatant physical changes in DB that happened from BtVS 1 to AtS 5 there should come a limit eventually!! They could of course pick it up x years after NFA and have them both shanshued...
                                That would be pretty damn awesome but then technically they still wouldn't look older than Buffy if they both shanshued recently.

                                I couldnt actually imagine any of them in their roles again, except maybe Faith. Eliza seems to have hardly changed.
                                Last edited by BuffySpike; 28-10-12, 04:25 PM.
                                Bonehead, carrot top, shirty & dope
                                the nonsensical vocabulary of Buffy and Spike

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