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In “Intervention” (5.18), Buffy and Co. mounted a Spike rescue mission.

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  • In “Intervention” (5.18), Buffy and Co. mounted a Spike rescue mission.

    First off, Buffy would have likely assumed that Spike would be held captive by Glory. Buffy and Co. were fortunate that Spike managed to escape Glory and therefore Buffy and Co. didn’t have to face Glory.

    For all Buffy’s and Xander’s talk about wanting to kill Spike, the Scoobies essentially mounted a mission to save Spike. Buffy even brought along the Buffybot whose obvious priority would be to save Spike.

    Given that Spike was beat up and given that Glory hadn’t already gone after Dawn, it’s obvious that Spike didn’t ‘team up’ with Glory and tell her about Dawn.

    Buffy didn’t want Spike dust. “How dare he get taken and tortured by Glory! Let’s kill him!” Plus, they got Spike out of Glory’s apartment and Buffy had Giles and Xander take Spike to his crypt. If anything, that seemed a shrewd way to get them to have some sympathy for Spike.

    As for Buffy seeing Spike: if he had told Glory, Glory would have been after Dawn. It makes no sense for Buffy to leave Dawn to go see Spike to find out if Spike had told Glory about Dawn. It seems she wanted to know why (or confirm why) he hadn’t told Glory about Dawn and instead endured all that torture. Plus, she asks Spike to ravage her and she ends up kissing him and he’s the one who ended that kiss.

    “Intervention” (5.18) is a Buffy/Spike episode and I consider the most interesting questions to be why she didn’t give the Buffybot back to Spike and why she didn’t destroy it. Spike made it clear that he was really embarrassed by Buffy seeing the Buffybot, that he wanted the Buffybot back, and that he was going to leave town with it. Buffy tells him he’s not getting it back, that it was obscene to have made it, that whatever he had with it wasn’t “real”, and she gives him slight hope that maybe he can have a relationship with Buffy. Buffy didn’t thank Spike for helping her save the world; she didn’t thank Spike for rescuing Oz; but she tells him that she’ll never forget that he endured torture to keep Dawn’s secret and that he did it because he cares for Buffy and Dawn.

  • #2
    The only one on an actual rescue mission was the BuffyBot. Buffy made it clear what her intentions were -- "BUFFY: Listen, skirt girl, we are not going to save him. We're going to kill him. He knows who the key is, and there's no way he's not telling Glory."

    As the fight scene unfolds, nobody lifts a finger to protect or help Spike at all, they just busy themselves with Glory's henchmen (and probably sincerely hoping she doesn't hear the commotion and come down), and the scene ends with the Buffybot breaking. There's no mention of Spike again until Buffy asks if Xander and Giles had killed him, consistent with her prior statement.

    In short, your idea that she went herself, let alone convinced the others to risk their lives, on a "we gotta save Spike" mission, is nonsense. The episode contradicts it categorically and unambiguously. Spike was dead meat until Buffy realized that she had misjudged him.
    Last edited by KingofCretins; 30-08-12, 06:15 AM.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by MikeB View Post
      “Intervention” (5.18) is a Buffy/Spike episode and I consider the most interesting questions to be why she didn’t give the Buffybot back to Spike and why she didn’t destroy it. Spike made it clear that he was really embarrassed by Buffy seeing the Buffybot, that he wanted the Buffybot back, and that he was going to leave town with it. Buffy tells him he’s not getting it back, that it was obscene to have made it, that whatever he had with it wasn’t “real”, and she gives him slight hope that maybe he can have a relationship with Buffy.
      MikeB, I think you have a really odd view about Spike and the Buffy bot. I think I can remember you saying in the comics section
      Spoiler:
      that Spike would have considered going off with the Buffy bot when it was recovered. I do actually think that is incredibly insulting to him. Even unsouled he wouldn't have wanted to go off with the bot...
      Spike wants the real Buffy. Yes he is really embarrassed but he doesn't at any point make it sound like he was going to leave town with it or would even want to. Spike doesn't want to go and settle down with a robot version of Buffy, Spike wants the real Buffy. The bot wasn't a substitute he was happy with as a replacement instead of Buffy. It served two main purposes, it was a sex toy and it was also a way for him to feel he had a connection with Buffy that he couldn't get, one where she thought he was worthwhile and would choose him. Their relationship from this point through to him saying that she treats him like a man is about him getting some of that connection from her for real, it is the turning point for them, the foundations of their friendship.

      How much Spike disliked being around the bot once the real Buffy had died is illustrative of the fact that he always saw it as an illusion. But it is confusing because you talk about it not being 'real' and the distinction between Spike feeling like Buffy was being positive towards him at that point (I don't think at this stage he had the slightest hope or belief that it could really mean a relationship for them) and then you talk about him choosing to live a life with bots as if he would be interested in doing this when it is never shown that he would and in fact the opposite is true, he never left with the bot in the first place.

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      • #4
        the only reason they didn't kill Spike was because they wanted to find out what he had told Glory

        I dont think it was a rescue mission, it was a mission to kill him and then became a recovery mission.

        Buffy's feelings towards Spike only change the moment she realises he got nearly killed for her.

        I'm not saying that feelings of sexual attraction towards him were not there prior to Intervention. It was there between both of them since season 4 but it was all belligerent sexual tension and metaphors. I know Joss did apparently say that prior to season 6, it was all metaphorical sexual attraction between certain characters and in season 6 he finally decided to show the sexual attraction forthright.


        Intervention is the first time she actually acts on anything towards him like that. It becomes UST. I never got the sense that he wanted to leave town with the Buffy Bot....
        Last edited by BuffySpike; 30-08-12, 12:02 PM.
        Bonehead, carrot top, shirty & dope
        the nonsensical vocabulary of Buffy and Spike

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        • #5
          To begin, actions speak louder than words. Buffy and Co. brought the Buffybot and when the group was discussing the plan with the Buffybot (before Buffy herself showed up), only Xander was discussing killing Spike.

          Here are the facts: The group was going in to Glory’s place and no matter what their plan was, they’d have to face Glory. None of them seemed to contemplate that Spike would have escaped Glory.

          So, how were they possibly going to kill Spike anyway if he was with Glory?

          And, again, unless Spike was going to blurt out “Dawn!” right before they killed him, there was really no point in them going there to kill Spike before he divulged the info. Spike had either already told Glory or he didn’t. And if he thought that they were coming there to kill him, what was stopping him from shouting out “Dawn” before they could kill him?

          Also, if any of them did kill Spike, Glory would have killed all of them in retribution. Or she would have simply killed all the Scoobies and captured and tortured Buffy if Glory thought it was possible that Spike wasn’t the Key.

          The plan makes little to no sense if it was actually a mission to kill Spike. The only thing that makes any sense – and it’s still a bad plan as they’d still have to get by Glory – if it was actually a rescue mission.




          KingofCretins

          The only one on an actual rescue mission was the BuffyBot.
          I don’t remember Buffy even going there with a weapon. And, yes, they took the Buffybot knowing that she’d be protecting Spike. Pretty much only Buffy could take her. It just doesn’t add up if their mission was to go there and kill Spike.

          Buffy made it clear what her intentions were -- "BUFFY: Listen, skirt girl, we are not going to save him. We're going to kill him. He knows who the key is, and there's no way he's not telling Glory."
          Actions speak louder than words. And Buffy is smart. If Spike was going to tell Glory who the Key is, he’d have already done that and they should have been hauling to the school in order to try to get to Dawn before Glory does.

          As the fight scene unfolds, nobody lifts a finger to protect or help Spike at all, they just busy themselves with Glory's henchmen
          The henchmen were attacking them and Spike was the safest one there. Spike wasn’t in danger because Glory thought he was the Key. The Buffy and Co. were in danger because the henchmen believed that Spike was the Key.

          (and probably sincerely hoping she doesn't hear the commotion and come down), and the scene ends with the Buffybot breaking.
          And then the Scoobies rescue Spike. They didn’t seem to think that Glory wasn’t there or that she wasn’t going to come down.

          There's no mention of Spike again until Buffy asks if Xander and Giles had killed him, consistent with her prior statement.
          Buffy didn’t want Spike being dusted. Any argument to the contrary is simply silly. If Buffy wanted to kill Spike, she could have easily done it while they were still at Glory’s place.

          In short, your idea that she went herself, let alone convinced the others to risk their lives, on a "we gotta save Spike" mission, is nonsense.
          It’s common sense.

          The episode contradicts it categorically and unambiguously.
          It’s a Buffy/Spike episode. Buffy is bemoaning that she’s lost her ability to love, the Guide talks about stuff that clearly point to Buffy/Spike, etc. If the mission was about killing Spike, it makes no sense that they would bring the Buffybot or if that was unavoidable, it makes no sense that that Buffybot has the biggest and best weapon. Also, Buffy had zero way of knowing if she could actually beat the Buffybot. She didn’t even beat the Aprilbot. If Buffy or any of the Scoobies tried to kill Spike when the Buffybot was around, the Buffybot could have killed that Scooby.



          Stoney

          Your post doesn’t have anything to do with the thread topic, so I’ll put my response in spoilers (maybe a thread on “Intervention” (5.18) should be made?:

          Spoiler:
          Spike wants the real Buffy.
          Yes, but at that point he considered that there wasn’t any chance of that happening: which is why he had the Buffybot made.

          Yes he is really embarrassed but he doesn't at any point make it sound like he was going to leave town with it or would even want to.
          It’s subtext. He already considered he had around no chance with Buffy, and now he considered that he likely had less chance with her since she saw what he had made. Spike asks for the Buffybot back and it seems that he is going to leave Sunnydale. In BtVS S5, he’s pretty much only staying in Sunnydale because he wants to be around Buffy. What gets him to stay is that Buffy gives him the hope that eventually she may be open to being with him. “What you did for me and Dawn. That was real. I won’t forget it.” If she hadn’t given him that hope, he likely would have left Sunnydale.

          How much Spike disliked being around the bot once the real Buffy had died is illustrative of the fact that he always saw it as an illusion.
          Spike felt that he killed Buffy. The Buffybot was a constant reminder of his failure.




          BuffySpike

          the only reason they didn't kill Spike was because they wanted to find out what he had told Glory
          This would mean that it was a rescue mission.

          I dont think it was a rescue mission, it was a mission to kill him and then became a recovery mission.
          Again, that makes little sense.

          Buffy's feelings towards Spike only change the moment she realises he got nearly killed for her.
          Buffy didn’t kill him at any time before this.
          Last edited by MikeB; 26-09-12, 05:14 AM.

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