Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Was Riley Right?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Was Riley Right?

    In the episode where Xander finally moves out of his parents basement, the episode concludes with Riley telling Xander how much he loves Buffy ... but then says, but Buffy doesn't love me.

    Xander is stunned/shocked. And ultimately we know that Buffy and Riley didn't stay together.

    But my question is, was Riley correct? Did Buffy truly not love him?
    29
    Yes
    75.86%
    22
    No
    10.34%
    3
    I Don't Know
    13.79%
    4

    The poll is expired.


  • #2
    I think Buffy cared a lot about Riley but I don't think she loved him. It always frustrates me in film and tv shows that a committed relationship is always assumed to be at the highest level of regard (God that sounded old fashioned, ha!). I didn't like Riley so maybe I am just prejudice, but I don't think Buffy's reactions to Riley's actions came across with that level of emotional investment. When Joyce was ill she didn't really turn to him and I do think that was an issue that was at least as much to do with him as it was her tendency to deal herself, her dominant responses to his actions such as irritation when he was patrolling alone and anger over hurt about the vamp hos (because really she doesn't consider his motivations/feelings, I don't mean that in a critical way, he is just not at that highest level of importance to her for her to automatically be wondering what is going on with him despite other things around her) and the fact that she was going to let him leave. Buffy loved the idea of Riley, it just never really clicked.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've changed my mind about this incredibly often, and likely will again, but as of now I think he was wrong.

      I think Riley wanted Buffy to need him as much as he needed her and because she didn't he mistook that for her not loving him. In S4 Riley didn't doubt Buffy's love (aside from perhaps in The Yoko Factor) and that's because he wasn't as dependant on her. She wasn't all he had. But in S5 he's lost everything – his friends, his job, his super solider strength – and he became, as Graham taunted, "the mission's boyfriend." Riley had nothing but Buffy and when she had other responsibilities or ties to this world like her new training regime with Giles, her sick her mother, her sister, or her friends, he felt unloved and unnecessary. Buffy's life didn't revolve around Riley like his revolved around hers. Riley was bound to feel like his love was unreciprocated and that Buffy's love wasn't as 'all-consuming' as his was for her.

      Graham was an incredible douchebag to taunt Riley like he did, but he was right that it was unhealthy for Riley to have no purpose of his own. All it did was make Riley feel neglected and it also placed unfair expectations upon Buffy.

      I also think part of it has to do with Riley’s perception of women and how they’re meant to behave. I do not agree with fans who feel that Riley is sexist and, although I do think it initially bruised his ego to be beaten in a fight with her, I think Riley was telling the truth when he said he liked that Buffy was “Spider man strong” and took charge. However, I think he has certain expectations about what roles men and women are supposed to have in a relationship and Buffy challenges this roles. Buffy has issues with intimacy, Buffy chooses to cry in private rather than on his shoulder, Buffy needs to be on top of everything all the time etc. Riley couldn’t deal with that. The ways in which Buffy expresses her love don't really register with Riley.

      That said, at least part of this has to do with the wall Buffy has put up to protect herself. As Joss said, she’s never been the same since Angel turned on her and Buffy would never been as emotionally open to another man again. It will always be Buffy’s curse as long she allows it to affect her new relationships and it’s understandable that the new men in her life wouldn’t be able to understand. We see Buffy tell Angel that she loves Riley. We see Buffy tell Willow and Anya that she’s already at the “she laughs we he laughs. She cries when he cries” stage. I’m not sure Buffy was ever that open to Riley, though.

      EDIT: Oops. I accidentally voted for the wrong option on the poll. Ah well.
      Last edited by vampmogs; 19-08-12, 11:36 AM.
      "The earth is doomed!" - Banner by Nina

      Comment


      • #4
        Buffy was certainly not satisfied with him in season 5.

        I think she loved him at one point but it was not fiery, passionate love.
        Last edited by BuffySpike; 19-08-12, 11:59 AM.
        Bonehead, carrot top, shirty & dope
        the nonsensical vocabulary of Buffy and Spike

        Comment


        • #5
          I just don't think it ever went beyond a deep fondness and caring just because her actions never showed the depth she felt in other relationships. Picture how Buffy looked at Angel just before she sent him to hell, the look she gave Spike in Showtime when she rescued him. I don't think Buffy ever looked at Riley with that level of deep raw emotion. I think Buffy cared, definitely, but she wanted to love him rather than actually did, she wanted it to work and him be right for her and he wasn't. It was, essentially, how badly they fit that split them imo. So, I just don't think she did. But she said she did so, if it was there at any point, like BuffySpike says, it wasn't a passionate love. Perhaps more of a friendship based love rather than romantic?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Stoney View Post
            I just don't think it ever went beyond a deep fondness and caring just because her actions never showed the depth she felt in other relationships. Picture how Buffy looked at Angel just before she sent him to hell, the look she gave Spike in Showtime when she rescued him. I don't think Buffy ever looked at Riley with that level of deep raw emotion. I think Buffy cared, definitely, but she wanted to love him rather than actually did, she wanted it to work and him be right for her and he wasn't. It was, essentially, how badly they fit that split them imo. So, I just don't think she did. But she said she did so, if it was there at any point, like BuffySpike says, it wasn't a passionate love. Perhaps more of a friendship based love rather than romantic?
            it was certainly a kind of platonic love I agree and more like deep affection. It was not of the same intensity as Spike and Angel.

            I agree with you that she wanted it to work but it didn't. In season 5 it was particularly clear that it was written in such a way that it was being set up for Spike. I remember Joss in a commentary or something sarcastically suggesting that Riley/Buffy was written in order to show how unsatisfied she was with Riley and it was Spike she kept beating on and taking her sexual frustration out on. If you notice when Riley leaves she stops hitting him pretty much. Except for when he chained her up.

            She actually says in Something Blue that Riley does not represent that kind of love that she needs to do her job at the start. She then decides to go for normal and not the paranormal kind of relationship at this point in her life. Spike was used as the device to temporarily steer her away from it in that episode. SB wasn't as pointless as everyone seems to think
            Last edited by BuffySpike; 19-08-12, 07:22 PM.
            Bonehead, carrot top, shirty & dope
            the nonsensical vocabulary of Buffy and Spike

            Comment


            • #7
              Buffy didn't love Riley -- he was merely convenient, and he looked appealing by comparison with Parker.
              "Strong is fighting! It's hard, and it's painful, and it's every day. It's what we have to do."

              (BtVS, ep 3x10, "Amends", 40:56)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
                I've changed my mind about this incredibly often, and likely will again, but as of now I think he was wrong.

                I think Riley wanted Buffy to need him as much as he needed her and because she didn't he mistook that for her not loving him. In S4 Riley didn't doubt Buffy's love (aside from perhaps in The Yoko Factor) and that's because he wasn't as dependant on her. She wasn't all he had. But in S5 he's lost everything – his friends, his job, his super solider strength – and he became, as Graham taunted, "the mission's boyfriend." Riley had nothing but Buffy and when she had other responsibilities or ties to this world like her new training regime with Giles, her sick her mother, her sister, or her friends, he felt unloved and unnecessary. Buffy's life didn't revolve around Riley like his revolved around hers. Riley was bound to feel like his love was unreciprocated and that Buffy's love wasn't as 'all-consuming' as his was for her.
                An excellent, well thought out and reasoned conclusion. Are you by any chance in law school? You could be a judge one day with reasoning and logic skills like this!

                Graham was an incredible douchebag to taunt Riley like he did, but he was right that it was unhealthy for Riley to have no purpose of his own. All it did was make Riley feel neglected and it also placed unfair expectations upon Buffy.
                Do you mean when Graham was trying to convince Riley to have the urgent heart operation?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gwendolyn Post View Post
                  Do you mean when Graham was trying to convince Riley to have the urgent heart operation?
                  Nah, it takes place after that. Riley has just had the emergency surgery and was about to leave the hospital, and Graham confronts him about his role in Sunnydale.

                  And no I'm not in law school but thanks!
                  "The earth is doomed!" - Banner by Nina

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Of course she didn't love him. She is too self-absorbed and involved with other issues at this point. I suspect that she only ran after him to the helicopter retrieval point was because she realized that she was losing her favourite emotional dishrag.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      First off, Buffy got with Riley because she thought he was a “nice, normal, safe” guy who would never emotionally hurt her and certainly would never cheat on her. She got with him instead of getting with Spike. Her past relationships in the Buffyverse were all with jerks or a ‘danger guy’ like Owen Thurman. That Riley turned out to be someone she could patrol with was a happy bonus.

                      Buffy seemed to desperately want a relationship with a normal guy to work and she seemed to ‘not get’ or ignore or dismiss things like that Riley wanted to be able to beat her up and was under a delusion (“A New Man” (4.12)) that that was possible.

                      I consider that Buffy was in a faux happiness with Riley because she was simply happy to be in a relationship with a ‘normal guy’.

                      And I do consider that she loved the idea of Riley and not really Riley himself. However, she was willing to ‘attack’ the Initiative in order to try to get Riley back. And love is partly measured by the willingness to sacrifice and/or sacrifice.




                      vampmogs

                      I do not agree with fans who feel that Riley is sexist and, although I do think it initially bruised his ego to be beaten in a fight with her, I think Riley was telling the truth when he said he liked that Buffy was “Spider man strong” and took charge.
                      Riley wanted to be able to beat her up. This is about certainly canon. Later in that very dialogue he says, “But give me another . . oh . . week to get ready. And I'll take you down.” http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/tran.../068_tran.html In “Out of My Mind” (5.04) he complains about her getting “stronger everyday”. And in “Into the Woods” (5.10):

                      RILEY: It's about me taking care of you! It's about letting me in. So you don't have to be on top of everything all the time.
                      BUFFY: But I do. That's part of what being a slayer is. (shakes her head) And that's what this is really about, isn't it? You can't handle the fact that I'm stronger than you.
                      RILEY: It's hard sometimes, yeah. But that's not it.
                      http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/tran.../088_tran.html

                      Here he’s also complaining about her being “on top of everything all the time”.

                      That said, at least part of this has to do with the wall Buffy has put up to protect herself. As Joss said, she’s never been the same since Angel turned on her and Buffy would never been as emotionally open to another man again.
                      When was this said (I don’t remember this quote)? Because Joss right after “Chosen” (7.22) aired said that Buffy was in love with Spike. SMG said that Buffy loved Spike.



                      BuffySpike

                      [“Something Blue” (4.09)] wasn't as pointless as everyone seems to think
                      I’m certainly not one of those.

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X