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"You faced the monster inside of you and you fought back"

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  • #16
    Well, she’s trying to convince him that he’s a good man and that he deserves to live and to continue to be redeemed (and to be with her).

    Buffy had tried to consider that souled Spike was not responsible for anything he had done when unsouled and so talked to him as if the only bad thing he had done is kill people while under the control of the First Evil. Spike makes sure to tell her that he’s still responsible for all the bad he did when unsouled including that he was still responsible for trying to rape her. He tells her that he raped girls Dawn’s age.

    And Spike’s alive and still around because Buffy loves him. “Never Leave Me” (7.09) was largely about Buffy trying to tell Spike that he’s not the bad man he was before he got his soul back, that he’s a good man, that she believes in him, etc.


    Buffy has only ever tried to kill Spike when he’s fighting her to kill her; essentially, she’d kill him to prevent him from killing her in that fight. So, in “Sleeper” (7.08) she wasn’t going to be trying to use that stake on him unless he tried to kill her again and the only way to stop him from killing her is to kill him.



    KingofCretins

    I've always taken it as a given that she was talking about the moment that allowed her to spare him in "Sleeper" -- when he stopped himself from attacking her.
    You actually think that Buffy would have survived a fight against Spike and the vampires in that basement? If Spike continued to attack Buffy, Buffy would have died in that basement.

    they were, after all, having a conversation mostly about why he was chained up in the basement instead of dust,
    Huh? Buffy was saying that Spike’s a good man and Spike was saying that he’s too dangerous and evil to remain undusted.

    But episodes like "Intervention", she wasn't kidding, she fully expected Giles and Xander were going to kill him, no objection, and was surprised they hadn't.
    She didn’t expect Giles and Xander to kill Spike. It makes no sense that she would have expected that. What, they were going to take Spike to his crypt and then dust him while there?



    BuffySpike

    Thing is. I actually think it may be Intervention. She was going to kill him if he had told Glory about Dawn
    There’s little to suggest that she would have killed Spike if he had told Glory about Dawn. Buffy went there partly to find out if Dawn needed to be taken to safety.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by MikeB View Post
      KingofCretins

      You actually think that Buffy would have survived a fight against Spike and the vampires in that basement? If Spike continued to attack Buffy, Buffy would have died in that basement.
      Did you even read my post? Spike stopped himself from killing her, Buffy took the opportunity to wipe out the other vampires, and then she decides to spare his life, because she realized something else was going on than Spike just being a killer. What's the disconnect here?

      She didn’t expect Giles and Xander to kill Spike. It makes no sense that she would have expected that. What, they were going to take Spike to his crypt and then dust him while there?
      Reality begs to differ, MikeB. From the episode --

      BUFFY: What'd you guys do with Spike? And please let the story have a dusty ending.
      XANDER: We dumped him back in his crypt.
      And please let the story have a dusty ending. Do you suppose she meant that she was hoping that they took him antiquing and flapped old quilts at him so he would be covered in dust?

      There’s little to suggest that she would have killed Spike if he had told Glory about Dawn. Buffy went there partly to find out if Dawn needed to be taken to safety.
      Little, that is, other than Buffy's explicitly stated intention to kill him pretty much at every point through the episode from when she first learns that Glory took him up through her expectation that Xander and Giles did. It's pretty safe to conclude that he hadn't won his life back from her until she stood there in his crypt and believed not only that he hadn't given up Dawn, but that he wouldn't.
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      • #18
        I agree with you on Intervention KoC, the intent was there and she said it several times, It becomes a little less clear cut than that by the time of Sleeper

        There are several incidents where Buffy is having internal conflicts when it comes to Spike in Sleeper and she does show signs of not wanting to kill him. I still think its pretty unclear if she was actually going to kill him in that basement or not. She walks over there with the stake but it wasnt a determined walk, stake raised, she simply walks there and happens to be holding a stake. Its almost like she forgets she has it in her hand by the time she throws it.

        EDITED - sorry I put NLM instead of Sleeper.
        Last edited by BuffySpike; 30-08-12, 01:38 PM.
        Bonehead, carrot top, shirty & dope
        the nonsensical vocabulary of Buffy and Spike

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        • #19
          See I took it as her being cautious in case she had no choice.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Stoney View Post
            See I took it as her being cautious in case she had no choice.
            Yes thats more like it in that last scene. You said it in about a million less words than me lol.

            I still believe there were instances in the episode where you could see her feelings were clouding her judgment on the situation though.


            Also, just something interesting. I know she was intending to kill him in Intervention but I find it funny how we get a little set up by the writers before the scenario actually plays out for real between the two:

            "You cant do it?" - Spike

            "I could never do it, I'm helpless against you, you fiend" - Buffy

            "Darn your sinister attraction" - Buffy
            Last edited by BuffySpike; 30-08-12, 01:49 PM.
            Bonehead, carrot top, shirty & dope
            the nonsensical vocabulary of Buffy and Spike

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            • #21
              I read all the posts



              KingofCretins

              * My quote: You actually think that Buffy would have survived a fight against Spike and the vampires in that basement? If Spike continued to attack Buffy, Buffy would have died in that basement.

              Your post implied that Buffy could have taken Spike and all the other vampires even if Spike were continuing to attack her.


              * Buffy’s never even tried to kill Spike unless he’s about to immediately kill her. So, of course she wasn’t going to kill him seeing as he’s no longer immediately trying to kill her.


              * I discuss such “Intervention” (5.18) stuff in this thread: http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=19006

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