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In Seasons 1-3, who is the more important/handy Scooby: Xander or Willow?

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  • #61
    and I personally find it disturbing how you dismiss the preciousness of people’s lives just because they aren’t members of the Scooby Gang.

    I never did this.
    Yes, you did:

    Are the Scoobies' lives somehow more precious than those of the average Joe?

    Yes. The Scoobies save the world.
    If Buffy didn’t die from Luke, Theresa wasn’t going to be killing an even more powerful Buffy.
    Even in fiction it's entirely possible for a weaker fighter to defeat the stronger one. You don't happen to deny that Buffy defeated The Master, Glory, Caleb, Adam, etc., do you? And if you try to use the "but it's a TV show, so Buffy wasn't going to die mid-season", then I say "it's a TV show where they decided to specifically have Xander save Buffy". If Buffy was in no danger whatsoever they might as well not have had Xander in this scene at all.
    Xander: "Willow, you are the best human ever! I adore you! Well, that's the cookies talking, but you rock!"

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by MikeB View Post

      This is a political statement and I’m not much interested in discussing politics on this Board. But in the Buffyverse, this is simply untrue.

      Buffy’s life is more important than the average person’s is because she Saves The World A Lot. Willow’s life is more important than the average person’s. So is Giles’s. And I don’t think anyone in the Buffyverse would say that the United States President’s life is no more important than anyone else’s. He has people who are supposed to take a bullet for him.
      Buffy: And that's it? You just live with it? You see the
      dead guy in your head every day for the rest of your life?

      Faith: Buffy, I'm not gonna *see* anything. I missed the
      mark last night and I'm sorry about the guy. I really am! But it
      happens! Anyway, how many people do you think we've saved by now,
      thousands? And didn't you stop the world from ending? Because in my
      book, that puts you and me in the plus column.

      Buffy: We help people! It doesn't mean we can do whatever we want.

      Faith: Why not? The guy I offed was no Gandhi. I mean, we just saw he
      was mixed up in dirty dealings.

      Buffy: Maybe, but what if he was coming to us for help?

      Faith: What if he was? You're still not seeing the big picture, B.
      Something made us different. We're warriors. We're built to kill.

      Buffy: To kill demons! But it does *not* mean that we get to pass
      judgment on people like we're better than everybody else!

      Faith: We *are* better!

      Buffy is taken aback.

      Faith: That's right, better. People need us to survive.
      In the balance, nobody's gonna cry over some random bystander who got
      caught in the crossfire.

      Buffy: I am!


      ----------
      Xander: If Buffy has to go to jail because of that creep I'm gonna lose it. He's gotta be in there, Will. Uh, history of domestic violence, a criminal record? Ooo! Cookies!

      Cordelia: I don't get it. Buffy's the Slayer. Shouldn't she have...

      Xander: What, a license to kill?

      Cordelia: Well, not for fun. But she's like this Superman. Shouldn't there be different rules for her?

      Willow: Sure, in a fascist society.

      Cordelia: Right! Why can't we have one of those?
      You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

      Comment


      • #63
        MikeB, its amazing how much you contradict yourself and how far you will go to trivialize any positive light shown on Xander. It just amazes me that after all the replies you've seen from everyone explaining how you were either reading a scene wrong, re-writing a scene, or completely belittling Xander (and other characters) that you still don't seem to see it. So since you asked...


        Originally posted by MikeB View Post

        What are the examples of my making taking “take anything meaningful Xander has ever done and make it trivial”?
        All of the following quotes are completely you belittling Xander in some form or fashion....

        Originally posted by MikeB View Post
        Something I had forgotten -- really, not thought about -- about is that Xander -- by accident -- is the one who in "Earshot" (3.18) discovers that's it's the lunch lady who was going to be trying to kill everyone in the school. Although, it's worth noting that besides Xander, none of the Scoobies would have been affected since they were all still looking for Jonathan. So, Xander merely saved the lives of people who would have eaten the Jello and whatever else were not for him.
        Originally posted by MikeB View Post
        But now that you mention it, Willow was kinda being braver than Xander was in either “The Zeppo” or “Grave”. Xander had good reason to believe that zombie Jack didn’t want to die. Xander was going to die horribly anyway if he didn’t stop Willow in “Grave”. Willow in “Doppelgangland” was risking her life to try to save a few people before Buffy and Co. busted in there.
        Originally posted by MikeB View Post
        Also, it’s not part of Seasons 1-3, but it was mentioned: Xander didn’t save Buffy’s life in “The Gift” (5.22). Glory is nowhere near Buffy and Buffy is not in a weak state or whatever when Xander hits Glory with the wrecking ball. And nothing really suggests that the wrecking ball thing was necessary for Glory’s defeat or even all that – or at least really – helpful. Also, the Buffybot idea: Xander finds the Buffybot but it could have been Anya who came up with the idea to use it. And obviously Willow’s programming of it was helpful in it fooling Glory.
        Originally posted by MikeB View Post
        * Xander was the only one able to be there anyway. But I’m also not okay with Xander being credited with saving the world as if Giles hadn’t had already done the heavy lifting. And whether or not someone else could talk Willow down is simply speculation. I consider that after Willow got the magic from Giles that Buffy also could have talked her down.
        Originally posted by MikeB View Post
        Well, in-Buffyverse, it’s a good moment for Xander. But that it’s a completely forced moment is my problem with it.
        And then, you say this....

        Originally posted by MikeB View Post

        That last part is extremely offensive to the other characters. Xander was only able to do that because of Giles’s plan and Xander being there.
        So you find it offensive when Dipstick implies that Xander is the only character to reach Willow... but yet, you don't think its offensive in the slightest to always imply Xander's moments are so easily replaceable...

        Originally posted by MikeB View Post
        Buffy could have gotten out of the tunnels without Xander’s help, and Xander didn’t save Buffy’s life in the Bronze.

        No, he went there to try to help Buffy. It was incidental that she drowned.
        Originally posted by MikeB View Post
        But now that you mention it, Willow was kinda being braver than Xander was in either “The Zeppo” or “Grave”. Xander had good reason to believe that zombie Jack didn’t want to die. Xander was going to die horribly anyway if he didn’t stop Willow in “Grave”. Willow in “Doppelgangland” was risking her life to try to save a few people before Buffy and Co. busted in there.
        Originally posted by MikeB View Post
        Also, it’s not part of Seasons 1-3, but it was mentioned: Xander didn’t save Buffy’s life in “The Gift” (5.22). Glory is nowhere near Buffy and Buffy is not in a weak state or whatever when Xander hits Glory with the wrecking ball. And nothing really suggests that the wrecking ball thing was necessary for Glory’s defeat or even all that – or at least really – helpful. Also, the Buffybot idea: Xander finds the Buffybot but it could have been Anya who came up with the idea to use it. And obviously Willow’s programming of it was helpful in it fooling Glory.
        All the which is still belittling and trivializing to Xander, btw.

        Originally posted by MikeB View Post
        As for who saved Buffy’s life the most, Willow saves her life in “Killed by Death” given that Buffy was going to drink the entire flu vial.
        Oh, but according to you that doesn't count, because anyone could have done that, just look at your above quoted posts.

        Originally posted by MikeB View Post
        According to what? First off, this assumes a vampire like Theresa could snap Buffy’s neck. The only vampires we’ve seen in the Buffyverse that have snapped a Slayer’s neck is the Master in the Wishverse – which may not count given it’s just an alternate reality that Anya created – and Spike (with Nikki). Secondly is that Buffy obviously could simply grab Theresa hands and therefore Theresa wouldn’t be able to snap Buffy’s neck.
        In that case, Xander is stronger than Spike, right? Because he once punched Spike in the face which made him flip backwards, so according to your math that means Xander is stronger than Spike, who is stronger or just as strong as Buffy, who is stronger than Theresa, so ergo he's the strongest character of ALL.

        ...Somehow, I have a feeling you won't quit see it that way...



        Originally posted by MikeB View Post
        What do you mean by “colored”?
        I've only visited two threads today and each thread you seem to be colored in your posts against Xander or twisted scenes and made other characters look bad by implying that saving random people as nothing or something less ... that's colored. I've could have spent the rest of my night combing through older threads where you belittle or rewrote scenes to come up with how Xander wasn't strong enough or smart enough or "anyone could have done it" but it would take up way too much of my time and there's not enough room to waste the space on.

        So please, re-read your quotes and tell me how you don't see how they are not colored and how they are not trivializing Xander's worth or how offensive they are not only to Xander, but to Buffy, Willow, Giles, Spike, etc when you "merely" throw them under the bus with your idea of who is stronger than who or who is more important or who is more worth saving? If thats how you watch the show... then thats colored. And its exactly the opposite of why Buffy is the great character that she is from day one until today. And its the most basic trait of what makes a hero, a hero. And if someone can't understand the importance of the small moments or the worth of saving random people, well, it kind of explains a lot of your posts.
        Last edited by tiger_fan; 07-08-12, 04:02 AM.

        Comment


        • #64
          I can't remember if it was this thread or another one, but I do recall a facepalm worthy comment where it was speculated that maybe Xander's CPR didn't save Buffy when she drowned, maybe it was really the Powers That Be. Like, maybe Buffy would have just woken up at that moment anyway, regardless of whether Xander had filled her lungs with air. Nobody can be expected to take an idea like that seriously. Mike, it's this type of stuff people are talking about when we say you rewrite scenes in order to put your own biased spin on them.

          Comment


          • #65
            All caught up.



            My quote from 30-01-12, 02:06 AM: Something I had forgotten -- really, not thought about -- about is that Xander -- by accident -- is the one who in "Earshot" (3.18) discovers that's it's the lunch lady who was going to be trying to kill everyone in the school. Although, it's worth noting that besides Xander, none of the Scoobies would have been affected since they were all still looking for Jonathan. So, Xander merely saved the lives of people who would have eaten the Jello and whatever else were not for him.

            From http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...6&postcount=26

            I decided to go back through my posts to find the original post about the “merely”. First off, I was the first one in this thread to mention that Xander saved people’s lives in “Earshot” (3.18). Maybe I shouldn’t have included “merely” and simply said, “So, Xander saved the lives of people who would have eaten the Jello were not for him.” It seems I included the “merely” because I included “and whatever else”.

            However, stating that those students that Xander saved aren’t as important as the Scoobies is not saying that their lives aren’t precious and that it’s not a good thing that their lives are saved.



            KingofCretins

            Actually, you discuss politics on this board almost non-stop.
            That simply isn’t true. I try to avoid it.

            What you aren't interested in doing is defending them.
            I do ‘defend’ them; what I’m not interested in doing is using this Board as a political forum.

            My quote: Theresa was a fledging vampire who had almost zero chance of killing Buffy.

            And rewriting episodes again. Buffy was making her pained, wounded racoon expression she always makes right before she is about to kill a vampire, after she lets it pin her to the floor totally unarmed and has it right where she wants it!
            Huh? Anyway, again, Luke couldn’t kill Buffy and there’s nothing to suggest that crosses don’t affect Theresa; so, Theresa “had almost zero chance of killing Buffy”.

            While we're in the theater of the absurd, I have to ask -- did Riley save Buffy's life at the start of "Fool For Love"?
            Unless Buffy could have otherwise survived that fight with the vampire, Riley saved Buffy’s life. Are you suggesting those two situations are comparable?



            Jack Shaftoe

            My quote: If Buffy didn’t die from Luke, Theresa wasn’t going to be killing an even more powerful Buffy.

            Even in fiction it's entirely possible for a weaker fighter to defeat the stronger one.

            You don't happen to deny that Buffy defeated The Master, Glory, Caleb, Adam, etc., do you?
            The Master killed Buffy; Adam and Glory were beaten through a collective effort of the Scoobies and Spike (including using powerful magics in both cases), and Caleb was only beaten because Buffy had the Scythe. The situations are not at all comparable.

            And if you try to use the "but it's a TV show, so Buffy wasn't going to die mid-season", then I say "it's a TV show where they decided to specifically have Xander save Buffy".
            I’ve never used “production reasons” to argue canon or to argue what happens in the show.

            If Buffy was in no danger whatsoever they might as well not have had Xander in this scene at all.
            Xander was there. Xander could stake Theresa and did.



            TimeTravellingBunny http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...3&postcount=62

            Slayers not having a right to indiscriminately kill people has nothing to do with “Earshot” (5.18) unless the discussion is whether Buffy should have killed Jonathan instead of talking to him or whether Buffy should have killed the lunch lady.



            tiger_fan

            MikeB, its amazing how much you contradict yourself and how far you will go to trivialize any positive light shown on Xander.
            I don’t contradict myself. And I don’t need to accept everything positive said about Xander or accept any aggrandizing of Xander or the like. Xander isn’t sacrosanct.

            And, anyway, I’m the one who says that Xander in BtVS S7 was possibly a multi-millionaire. I’m the one that says that Xander was rocking Anya’s world, that Cordelia was really into him, and that Faith didn’t think he was a virgin. I say that Xander’s possibly the best male kisser in the Buffyverse (Spike being either first or second or third (Angel’s somewhere in that mix)). I say that Buffy and Xander could have possibly worked in BtVS S4 or in BtVS S7 if Spike didn’t come back and if Buffy didn’t meet someone ‘cooler’ like Wood.

            It just amazes me that after all the replies you've seen from everyone explaining how you were either reading a scene wrong, re-writing a scene, or completely belittling Xander (and other characters) that you still don't seem to see it.
            First off, a few posters on this Board doesn’t constitute “everyone”. Secondly, no Board is a random sampling of viewers. Thirdly, those posters not liking what I posted don’t make them right and me wrong.

            Your quotes of mine (which, you even don’t address why it was trivializing or belittling Xander):

            Something I had forgotten -- really, not thought about -- about is that Xander -- by accident -- is the one who in "Earshot" (3.18) discovers that's it's the lunch lady who was going to be trying to kill everyone in the school. Although, it's worth noting that besides Xander, none of the Scoobies would have been affected since they were all still looking for Jonathan. So, Xander merely saved the lives of people who would have eaten the Jello and whatever else were not for him.

            Already addressed this.

            But now that you mention it, Willow was kinda being braver than Xander was in either “The Zeppo” or “Grave”. Xander had good reason to believe that zombie Jack didn’t want to die. Xander was going to die horribly anyway if he didn’t stop Willow in “Grave”. Willow in “Doppelgangland” was risking her life to try to save a few people before Buffy and Co. busted in there.

            I consider anyone who disagrees is belittling Willow. Again, Xander could have solved the zombie problem by actually talking to Buffy or Angel or Giles or Faith or Willow about it.

            Also, it’s not part of Seasons 1-3, but it was mentioned: Xander didn’t save Buffy’s life in “The Gift” (5.22). Glory is nowhere near Buffy and Buffy is not in a weak state or whatever when Xander hits Glory with the wrecking ball. And nothing really suggests that the wrecking ball thing was necessary for Glory’s defeat or even all that – or at least really – helpful. Also, the Buffybot idea: Xander finds the Buffybot but it could have been Anya who came up with the idea to use it. And obviously Willow’s programming of it was helpful in it fooling Glory.

            Nothing in this is wrong.

            * Xander was the only one able to be there anyway. But I’m also not okay with Xander being credited with saving the world as if Giles hadn’t had already done the heavy lifting. And whether or not someone else could talk Willow down is simply speculation. I consider that after Willow got the magic from Giles that Buffy also could have talked her down.

            I’ve already explained that this was a ‘forced situation’.

            My quote: That last part is extremely offensive to the other characters. Xander was only able to do that because of Giles’s plan and Xander being there.

            So you find it offensive when Dipstick implies that Xander is the only character to reach Willow... but yet, you don't think its offensive in the slightest to always imply Xander's moments are so easily replaceable...
            This is simply biased: there’s no other way to accurately and appropriately describe such a comment. You are suggesting that it’s fine to say that Xander was the only one capable of being able to reach Willow and that it’s not fine to suggest that someone else could have reached Willow.

            Buffy could have gotten out of the tunnels without Xander’s help, and Xander didn’t save Buffy’s life in the Bronze.

            Both of these are true.

            Quote:
            Originally Posted by MikeB
            But now that you mention it, Willow was kinda being braver than Xander was in either “The Zeppo” or “Grave”. Xander had good reason to believe that zombie Jack didn’t want to die. Xander was going to die horribly anyway if he didn’t stop Willow in “Grave”. Willow in “Doppelgangland” was risking her life to try to save a few people before Buffy and Co. busted in there.
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by MikeB
            Also, it’s not part of Seasons 1-3, but it was mentioned: Xander didn’t save Buffy’s life in “The Gift” (5.22). Glory is nowhere near Buffy and Buffy is not in a weak state or whatever when Xander hits Glory with the wrecking ball. And nothing really suggests that the wrecking ball thing was necessary for Glory’s defeat or even all that – or at least really – helpful. Also, the Buffybot idea: Xander finds the Buffybot but it could have been Anya who came up with the idea to use it. And obviously Willow’s programming of it was helpful in it fooling Glory.
            All the which is still belittling and trivializing to Xander, btw.
            You posted these twice.

            My quote: As for who saved Buffy’s life the most, Willow saves her life in “Killed by Death” given that Buffy was going to drink the entire flu vial.

            Oh, but according to you that doesn't count, because anyone could have done that, just look at your above quoted posts.
            Now you are trivializing and belittling Willow and you are misrepresenting my quoted posts (only in “Grave” (6.22) do I say that someone else could have saved Buffy). Only one who knew to only give Buffy a few drops would have saved Buffy’s life.

            My quote: According to what? First off, this assumes a vampire like Theresa could snap Buffy’s neck. The only vampires we’ve seen in the Buffyverse that have snapped a Slayer’s neck is the Master in the Wishverse – which may not count given it’s just an alternate reality that Anya created – and Spike (with Nikki). Secondly is that Buffy obviously could simply grab Theresa hands and therefore Theresa wouldn’t be able to snap Buffy’s neck.

            In that case, Xander is stronger than Spike, right? Because he once punched Spike in the face which made him flip backwards,
            When was that that Spike “flipped backwards”?

            so according to your math that means Xander is stronger than Spike,
            Spike punched Buffy to the ground. That does not mean that he is stronger than Buffy. It’s simple physics. It’s not as if Xander was shown lifting more weight or beat Spike at arm wrestling. F=ma

            So please, re-read your quotes and tell me how you don't see how they are not colored and how they are not trivializing Xander's worth or how offensive they are not only to Xander, but to Buffy, Willow, Giles, Spike, etc
            Wow: seriously? You trivialized Buffy by saying that she couldn’t have done what Xander did in “Grave” (6.22). You trivialized what Willow did in “Dopplegangland”. You trivialized what Giles did in “Two to Go” and “Grave”. And not once in any of those quotes did I trivialize Spike.

            when you "merely" throw them under the bus with your idea of who is stronger than who or who is more important or who is more worth saving? If thats how you watch the show... then thats colored. And its exactly the opposite of why Buffy is the great character that she is from day one until today. And its the most basic trait of what makes a hero, a hero.
            Xander wasn’t as strong as other characters, he wasn’t as powerful as other characters, and he wasn’t as important as other characters. Those are facts. As for who is worth more: Buffy and Co. save Willow and risk the Mayor being able to eat Sunnydale. Buffy puts Dawn’s life over the lives of the Scoobies. Buffy kept Spike around in BtVS S7 and therefore was potentially risking lives. Buffy tells Wood that she’s let Spike kill him if Spike though that Wood was still a danger to him. Giles killed Ben because Glory would still be a danger to Buffy.

            And if someone can't understand the importance of the small moments or the worth of saving random people, well, it kind of explains a lot of your posts.
            This is actually colored. I never said that Xander wasn’t doing a good thing by saving those people in “Earshot” (5.18).



            Vampire in Rug

            I can't remember if it was this thread or another one, but I do recall a facepalm worthy comment where it was speculated that maybe Xander's CPR didn't save Buffy when she drowned, maybe it was really the Powers That Be. Like, maybe Buffy would have just woken up at that moment anyway, regardless of whether Xander had filled her lungs with air. Nobody can be expected to take an idea like that seriously. Mike, it's this type of stuff people are talking about when we say you rewrite scenes in order to put your own biased spin on them.
            That scene was done as if Buffy was supernaturally brought back to life. And she’s stronger and more powerful after being ‘reborn’.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by MikeB View Post
              TimeTravellingBunny http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...3&postcount=62

              Slayers not having a right to indiscriminately kill people has nothing to do with “Earshot” (5.18) unless the discussion is whether Buffy should have killed Jonathan instead of talking to him or whether Buffy should have killed the lunch lady.
              Did you even read my post? Or your quote I was replying to? Or do I have to actually explain it? People's lives aren't less important or less worthy because they lack strength or fighting skills or any other skills - except in a fascist society. Buffy is the first one to point that out, as her conversation with Faith from Consequences show. Anyone who thinks they are superior to everyone else due to their strength, skills and previous accomplishments and that their lives are worth more than the lives of others, only manages to make themselves look like a terrible (and dangerous) person.
              You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

              Comment


              • #67
                I’ve never used “production reasons” to argue canon or to argue what happens in the show.
                Really? So I must have imagined the argument over how Spike, Anya, etc. had to stay in the show because it might have been cancelled otherwise? Or how "almost all fans" hated Riley, so he had to go?

                The Master killed Buffy;
                Not really relevant because once she overcame the hypnosis she killed him. So yes, weaker opponents can win. See Faith vs Kakistos, Spike vs the two Slayers he killed (I bet you will say he was stronger than them but I will put my fingers in my ears and sing "La-la-la, I can't hear you", so please don't bother), Wesley and Gunn against many, many vampires and demons, Angel against the Beast, Buffy vs Robo-Moloch, Luke, Kralik, the Turok-han - basically every opponent who happened to be stronger than her. It boggles my mind that this is even a point of contention. Yes, some of my examples (the Big Bads) weren't the best, but it's quite simply not true that whoever is stronger automatically wins a fight in the Buffyverse.

                Xander was there.
                I get it now - this scene was "forced" too? So every time Xander does something heroic, the scene is forced, right?

                That scene was done as if Buffy was supernaturally brought back to life.
                No, it wasn't. The fact that you seem to be the only one who believes in some sort of divine intervention happening in that scene is quite telling. Thematically, the CPR is all about a modern mundane method used to get around an ancient prophecy. What you see is what you get, not some arcane explanation that somehow only you have managed to perceive through your special anti-Xander glasses.

                And she’s stronger and more powerful after being ‘reborn’.
                The who in the what now?
                Xander: "Willow, you are the best human ever! I adore you! Well, that's the cookies talking, but you rock!"

                Comment


                • #68
                  I really try not to mention posters’ biases when debating against things posters say. It’d be much easier to mention these biases, but I remember that in the Rules, we’re not supposed to do so. And yet it seems some posters have no problem discussing my pro-Spike, and supposed anti-Xander biases.




                  TimeTravellingBunny

                  * If I remember correctly, you were discussing Buffy telling Faith that Slayers don’t have the right to kill people.

                  * In “Choices” (3.??) Buffy and Co. risk Sunnydale in order to get Willow back from the Mayor. In “The Gift” (5.22), Buffy risks the entire world to try to keep Dawn alive. She even threatens to kill any Scooby who tries to kill Dawn. In “Lies My Parents Told Me” (7.17), Buffy informs Wood that she won’t stop Spike from killing him if Spike believes that Wood is still a danger to him. In BtVS S8
                  Spoiler:
                  Buffy had two ‘decoy’ Buffy’s. And a decoy went on a dangerous mission and ended up being killed.


                  * The simple point is that it’s good that Xander was able to save those people in “Earshot” (3.18). Other than extreme political correctness, I don’t know why there was any offense or whatever to my saying that saving the Scoobies is more important than saving random people.



                  Jack Shaftoe

                  My quote: I’ve never used “production reasons” to argue canon or to argue what happens in the show.

                  Really? So I must have imagined the argument over how Spike, Anya, etc. had to stay in the show because it might have been cancelled otherwise? Or how "almost all fans" hated Riley, so he had to go?
                  First off, I never mentioned Anya being needed in the show because of her popularity (I don’t remember Anya being popular). And I never used Spike’s popularity or Riley’s unpopularity to explain the Buffyverse reasons for why Spike wasn’t killed or why Riley went away.


                  * Xander got Angel to bring him to the Master’s lair. That wasn’t a forced situation.

                  My quote: That scene was done as if Buffy was supernaturally brought back to life.

                  This is true. In such CPR scenes, the saved person coughs up the water first thing and then slowly ‘revives’. Buffy popped back to life and she is fully aware. And then she coughs up the water.

                  In any event, the big thing is that Xander forced Angel to take him to the Master’s lair.

                  My quote: And she’s stronger and more powerful after being ‘reborn’.

                  The who in the what now?
                  “Buffy: (stops) No. No, I feel strong. I feel different.” http://www.buffyworld.com/buffy/tran.../012_tran.html And then she easily overpowers the Master.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    This is true. In such CPR scenes, the saved person coughs up the water first thing and then slowly ‘revives’. Buffy popped back to life and she is fully aware. And then she coughs up the water.
                    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...PrettyReliable - I guess all those examples also signify some deity giving a helping hand rather than, I don't know, the writers and directors presenting CPR as less messy than it is in reality?
                    Last edited by Jack Shaftoe; 26-09-12, 06:13 PM.
                    Xander: "Willow, you are the best human ever! I adore you! Well, that's the cookies talking, but you rock!"

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