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Blue - interpretations ?

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  • bespangeled
    commented on 's reply
    You are amazing! Just saying - great analysis! Spike is definitely the feminine moon - emotional, unruly, unpredictable, waxing and waning. Buffy is the masculine - the light - in their relationship.

  • TriBel
    replied
    This is stream of consciousness stuff. It’s over determination (I’m notorious for this). I can make it cohere but it'd take about 20,000 words and you'd be more bored than you are now. However, logically, it fits with S7.

    It's in Conversations with Dead People - so I presume it's part of that "conversation". Dead people - choose from Joyce, Spike and Angel. To this list you could add, people who are physically alive but symbolically dead because they “abandoned her” (so Giles, Riley, Hank and Angel). I read somewhere it's supposed to be about the different stages in her life - I'm a bit "yeah but no" about that. Personally, I think Buffy's thoughts - whether conscious or unconscious - are addressed predominately to Joyce and Spike. I could change my mind. I might edit but I'm posting now to get it out of the way.

    Band setting up (prologue) Cut to - Buffy walking through a graveyard Night falls / I fall / And where were you? Cut back to band - female singer. And where were you?

    Night falls / I fall

    Could be – and in my mind is - a juxtaposition – a comparison between night and Buffy. Both fall.

    Night falls: In the Western tradition, “night” is usually coded as female (as is the moon - for instance, the moon has a 28 day cycle, so do (most) women So flow - when she falls into the moon - she falls into "the feminine",* which can be positive or negative depending on your perspective). The text knows this.

    Night is unruly – it’s associated with chaos and stands in contrast to the “order” of day. It’s the dark/light dichotomy. We (humans) see better in daylight than at night. This is common sense. However, in a more general sense “see” becomes equated with knowledge - “I see” means “I know”. This is ideological. Sight becomes the privileged sense and the knowledge it refers to is a specific type of knowledge. Hence the Age of Reason is referred to as The Enlightenment and contrasted with the irrational Dark Ages (of myth). But, as Adorno points out reason itself has become a myth – in the sense that we look to reason to explain everything. That it doesn’t is a central theme of S7.

    Night’s associated with barbarism; Day with civilization. Barbarism/Civilization is implicit in the prologue of Lessons (Istanbul/England; Night/Day; Chaos/Order; Death/Life. In Sunnydale Graveyard/Revello and the same binaries repeated). However, according to Benjamin, “There is no document of civilization which is not at the same time a document of barbarism. And just as such a document is not free of barbarism, barbarism taints also the manner in which it was transmitted from one owner to another.” Again, this is implicit in S7.

    Until S6 Buffy was the one who imposed order on the night – maintained the status-quo. Then she fell. Unruly women walk at night. "Nightwalker" is another term for prostitute…another term is “fallen women”. If anything happens to them it’s “their fault” (see Spike’s rescue of the woman in AtS. See the police response in the UK to the Jack the Ripper murders and the Yorkshire Ripper murders. See the Take back the Night movement). Buffy in S6 becomes “unruly”.

    Night’s also the time when we traditionally have access to the unconscious (dreams) - and a conversation about unconscious desire/dynamics happens with Holden (obviously a dead person). The unconscious is implicit in much of the above.

    Edited to add:

    I fall


    Buffy fell at the end of S5 but while her body fell down, her spirit “rose” up to heaven. Standard dichotomy but…spirit in the West codes as male…the body as female. The body is other to reason. She also “fell” in S6. Her spirit/soul fell from heaven and animated her rotting body. She became the unruly woman through her relationship with Spike - or because she felt herself to be unruly she initiated the relationship. It depends on perspective. Note: in S6 she’s ashamed of her body (she “covers up” as she walks down the stairs to Spike. Her body’s damaged. It smells. The body (female – cw The Body) is an abject thing. Again – she’s rejecting the feminine.

    As I understand it (I could be making this up) according to Christianity, to be born is to fall. We're born into original sin - and our journey (narrative arc) is intended to return us to our unfallen state (we rise to heaven...to be at one with God. Please note - before we're born we're at one with the mother). Map this idea of completion, of oneness, on to what she says about being in Heaven. S6 Buffy was a "fallen" woman. At the end she was reborn - into the light. However, unconsciously she still desires to be "fallen" (with Spike). In short, consciously or unconsciously, she still desires Spike (both as Spike and in terms of what Spike represents...which is the feminine). It’s this slippage between Spike (the other) and the feminine (the (m)other) that makes S6/7 so complex.

    *The feminine is kinda explained below
    “The ancient worship of the sacred feminine (Moon) shifted into predominately masculine power (Sun). The older lunar religions of matriarchal cultures were replaced by patriarchal warrior solar religions. The yin-yang polarity came to be portrayed as a ‘battle’ between light and dark, between day and night. Light came to be seen as a symbol of life and birth and the expression of joy, happiness, cheerfulness, and positivity… - the masculine. Darkness came to represent death, suffering, ignorance, superstition, the devil’s realm … a place to be feared and best avoided… - the feminine. https://soulscapejourneys.weebly.com...uline-sun.html
    The site itself is too "new agey" for me (my reference points are the "French Feminists" - Julia Kristeva and Luce Irigaray) but it explains some of the basic principles - and there's a picture. It’s worth a visit. I like the line “Patriarchal warrior solar religions (the Sun). She says to Angel, “Let me bask in you". If Angel's the masculine Sun - then Spike's the feminine moon.

    And yeah...it sounds bizarre but I'm vastly oversimplifying in an attempt to avoid name-dropping.
    Last edited by TriBel; 12-02-20, 11:42 AM.

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  • Cheese Slices
    replied
    Originally posted by flow View Post
    I can't make any sense of the line " I fell into the moon. " What is that supposed to mean?

    flow
    I always took it as "giving in to your dark side", which is very fitting for Buffy, Willow and Spike in S6.
    Last edited by Cheese Slices; 10-02-20, 05:47 PM.

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  • Priceless
    replied
    It reads a lot like blame too. Where were you when I needed you? Where were you when I was doing something stupid and you weren't there to stop me/protect me

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  • HardlyThere
    replied
    I would say both it and the episode are about guilt and the isolation it can cause, fitting Willow, Buffy and Spike.

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  • Priceless
    replied
    Originally posted by flow View Post
    I can't make any sense of the line " I fell into the moon. " What is that supposed to mean?

    flow
    That line is played over Jonathan's murder and Spike biting the girl. Maybe it's about death.

    Can I make it right is Buffy staking Holden, trying to make right what Spike has done. Can I spend the night. Alone is a close up of Buffy, alone. Literal, I know.

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  • flow
    replied
    I can't make any sense of the line " I fell into the moon. " What is that supposed to mean?

    flow

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  • a thing of evil
    replied
    The song is about Buffy's relationships with her lovers and Willow - Angel (Warm skin Wolf grin) Spike (High tide Inside The air is dew) Willow (I crawled out of the world When you said I shouldn't stay).

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  • bespangeled
    replied
    All I can say is thank you for the ear worm that will torment me for at least this entire day!

    I love the song but I am lousy at interpreting. But I will say that each person had someone they loved taken from them. And where were you? is a plaintive cry about going through hard things without someone who should be there. Dawn lost her mother. Willow lost Tara. Buffy is a little trickier - she definitely lost some undefined part of herself. Spike is part of it. She talks about her demon phase with him and how she knows her loved her. But she also talks about how hard it is to balance being a person and being a slayer so I think the person she is looking for is herself - who she was before she died.

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  • Cheese Slices
    started a topic Blue - interpretations ?

    Blue - interpretations ?

    I'm talking about the song sung by Angie Hart in Conversations with Dead People :
    Night falls
    I fall
    And where were you?
    And where were you?
    Warm skin
    Wolf grin
    And where were you?
    I fell into the moon
    And it covered you in blue
    I fell into the moon
    Can I make it right?
    Can I spend the night?
    High tide
    Inside
    The air is dew
    And where were you?
    Wild eyed
    I died
    And where were you?
    I crawled out of the world
    When you said I shouldn't stay
    I crawled out of the world
    Can I make it right?
    Can I spend the night
    Alone?
    It's vague enough so that the interpretations can be numerous, so what's yours ?
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