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Beljoxa's Eye

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  • Beljoxa's Eye

    This topic came up in a discussion on Facebook and it got me wanting to hear what people on this board think about it.

    I never gave a lot of thoughts to Beljoxa's Eye. I thought it was one of the (few) faults of season 7. Anya and Giles make a huge effort to hop to a different dimension, talk with an eye there and that's it. Nothing ever comes out of it. Not in a positive way, not in a negative way. The writers drop the plotline completely.

    Anyway, here is, what Beljoxa's Eye said (among other things. I have only quoted what was relevant for my question):

    The mystical forces surrounding the chosen line have become irrevocably altered, become unstable, vulnerable.

    The First Evil did not cause the disruption, only seized upon it to extinguish the lives of the chosen forever.
    When Giles and Anya come back to our dimension, they discuss the following and we don't know if it is something Beljoxa's eye said additionally off-panel or if it is their conclusions from the little information they got from Beljoxa's Eye:

    Anya: Yeah, I just—I don't understand how Buffy's death mucked up the whole slayer mojo. You know, it's not like she hasn't died before.

    Giles: It's not because she died. The Beljoxa's Eye was quite clear about that in its enigmatic way. It's because she lives. Again. Buffy's not responsible for that.

    ANYA Oh. Oh. Willow and me and Xander and Tara. We're the ones who brought Buffy back. We're—we're the reason The First is here, the reason those girls were murdered. No, it's our fault. The world would've been better off if Buffy had just stayed dead. (walks off)
    The whole thing ties in with the question of what happened to the Slayer line after Buffy died for the first time, the second time and the third time. Until now I knew two theories:

    a) When Buffy dies in Prophecy Girl and was brought back to life she kept her Slayer Powers but the Slayer line meaning the ability to activate a new slayer by death was passed on to Kendra and after Kendra's death to Faith. When Buffy died in The Gift and once more in Seeing Red no new Slayer was activated.

    b) When Buffy died in Prophecy Girl and was brought back to life she kept her slayer powers and the ability to pass them on. When she died again in The Gift a new Slayer was called. we never found out about the new slayer but she existed. When Buffy was killed and brought back to life in Seeing red another new slayer was called increasing the number of active slayers to four (Buffy, faith, unknown slayer 1 and unknown slayer 2).


    I am trying to reconcile those theories with Beljoxa's statement.

    Following theory a) it would have been okay for Buffy to live again just one more time but the balance was shaken when she lived a third time (after her second death and resurrection). Although not much had changed in comparison with her first death you could say that it's okay for her to come back once but there has to be a limit to how many times she can come back. She can't come back again and again. It would create ripples.

    If we look at theory b) nothing much had changed as well due to her second and third death in comparison to the first death but the increasing numbers of slayers who get called with each of Buffy's deaths and resurrections are of course an increasing risk to the balance between good and evil. Fate (or whoever) decided that two slayers are manageable without imposing a serious threat to evil but three slayers - and then four - are just too much and the balance began to crumble.

    On facebook I have now come across a third theory (let's call it theoryc)) which basically says that Buffy lost the ability to pass on the slayer's power after her first death in Prophecy Girl because it was a natural death and a natural resurrection. There was just one slayer line which runs through Kendra and after her death through Faith. Buffy herself existed outside this line with slayer powers but not actually being The Slayer. However, when she died again in The Gift and was resurrected she was re-inserted into the slayer line because the resurrection was a mystical resurrection, not a natural one. Then and only then the mystical forces surrounding the slayer line became irrevocably altered. Going by theory c) her death in Seeing Red must have activated a new (third) slayer although we have not yet heard of her.

    What do you think?

    flow
    ................................ Banner by buffylover

  • #2
    Buffy did not die in Seeing Red/Villains. Willow saved her. She would not have been able to revive Buffy had she died for the same reason as Tara.

    I think the point of that scene was just exposition on how/why The First was choosing then as opposed to any other previous time. The reason why her dying in The Gift and being resurrected was different was because everything from S2-S5 was already written, so to speak. It was Buffy's job to hop off that tower and stop Glory. It was basically a prophecy, the same reasoning why the monks put the Key in human form rather than some inanimate object. Buffy had dreams hinting at it the same way she did the Master rising. Her task completed, Buffy Summers' storyline was meant to be a wrap. But the Scoobs threw a wrench in the works, and the First seizing on that opportunity are the consequences of not leaving well enough alone. Thus, we have the BB of S7. I think that all is well enough supported by the story both literally and figuratively, as S6/S7 are sort of an epilogue that work on 3 levels, the story level, the meta Watsonian level and the meta Doylist level.

    I don't think she was reinserted into the Slayer line. That's just my take on it. I think the revival in S6 ultimately made her more than your average slayer. Hence Spike's chip not working, hence the First, hence her being able to survive a pretty clear killshot in Chosen and a chest wound that would have killed most people outright. This 2nd paragraph is all just my wild spec and I don't really believe they put much thought into the First's actual endgame (nor any other BB's endgame for that matter), but I think the ultimate goal was to wear down Buffy enough to enter her like it was doing Caleb.

    Comment


    • #3
      HardlyThere:
      Buffy did not die in Seeing Red/Villains. Willow saved her. She would not have been able to revive Buffy had she died for the same reason as Tara.
      But wasn't there a flatline when Buffy was at the hospital?

      HardlyThere
      I think the ultimate goal was to wear down Buffy enough to enter her like it was doing Caleb.
      It's an interesting thought. I like it.

      flow
      Last edited by flow; 04-01-20, 07:33 PM.
      ................................ Banner by buffylover

      Comment


      • #4
        I think Buffy loses the Slayer line as soon as she died in Prophecy Girl and Kendra was called. I don't think it's reasonable for a show like this not to show all the Slayers called post-Buffy. We saw Kendra and Faith, so why not the slayers called post S5, if the line still continued through Buffy.

        I think that the forces of evil (the first, the watchers council etc.) consider Buffy now simply to be the grand matriarch of the slayer line, a sort of post menopausal head of the family, who can no longer produce little slayers, but she holds all the power because she's seen the most, learnt the most, fought the most and kept the line together when those around her weakened and died. A kind of Hellmouth Miss Ellie if you will.

        Comment


        • #5
          There is no evidence in the show that Buffy has lost her ability to activate new slayers through her death. All the characters who speak about it (including the Mayor in S3), seem to think that Buffy's death will awake a new slayer.

          The Watchers Council did not tell Buffy about Kendra or Faith. If there are two new slayers, the WC would likely do their damndest to keep them away from the corrupting influence of Buffy and Faith.

          Originally posted by flow View Post
          HardlyThere: But wasn't there a flatline when Buffy was at the hospital?
          Yes, she dies a clinical death, just as she does in "Prophecy Girl." Willow's magic manages to heal the internal and external damage to her chest and resuscitate her. Tara would be brain dead long before Willow made it to the Magic Box and back, so there would be no use trying to save her.

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          • #6
            If there were new slayers post S5, wouldn't the current one make her way to Revello Drive when the Bringers began hunting them and the potentials in S7?

            Comment


            • #7
              She might be stationed in Mongolia and busy with the local hellmouth. Maybe she flew under The First Evil's radar and missed the memo (by whom, by the way?) to come to Sunnydale.

              flow
              ................................ Banner by buffylover

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                If there were new slayers post S5, wouldn't the current one make her way to Revello Drive when the Bringers began hunting them and the potentials in S7?
                With no Watchers Council as a go between, they wouldn't know about Buffy's existence.

                I was going to say that they could have been killed by bringers, but then you would ask me why the slayers activated by their deaths didn't come

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Willow from Buffy View Post
                  With no Watchers Council as a go between, they wouldn't know about Buffy's existence.

                  I was going to say that they could have been killed by bringers, but then you would ask me why the slayers activated by their deaths didn't come
                  I guess that would depend on when the last slayer was called and if she had a watcher prior to season 7 and the WC being blown up.

                  It's really an impossible question to answer with any certainty

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                    I guess that would depend on when the last slayer was called and if she had a watcher prior to season 7 and the WC being blown up.

                    It's really an impossible question to answer with any certainty
                    But the Watchers seem to have wanted to keep Buffy away from other slayers. They didn't tell Buffy or Giles about Kendra, and they didn't tell Kendra and her watcher about Buffy. Then when Faith was called, they told Faith's watcher about Buffy, probably because they wanted her to steer Faith clear of Sunnydale.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The Watchers Council did not tell Buffy about Kendra or Faith. If there are two new slayers, the WC would likely do their damndest to keep them away from the corrupting influence of Buffy and Faith.
                      Could be that but I think it's equally likely they want to sustain the idea that powerful women are the exception not the rule.
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TriBel View Post
                        Could be that but I think it's equally likely they want to sustain the idea that powerful women are the exception not the rule.
                        The knowledge that a slayer can emancipate herself would be the corrupting effect. The only way to control the slayers is too keep them as isolated as possible and keep them from getting too old.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Willow from Buffy View Post
                          But the Watchers seem to have wanted to keep Buffy away from other slayers. They didn't tell Buffy or Giles about Kendra, and they didn't tell Kendra and her watcher about Buffy. Then when Faith was called, they told Faith's watcher about Buffy, probably because they wanted her to steer Faith clear of Sunnydale.
                          That is a good point, but I still think that the most recent slayer/s would have made their way to Revello in S7. Even potentials who knew nothing about being potentials found their way to Revello, so I'm sure a current Slayer would have heard on the grapevine what was happening.

                          As for Kendra and Faith, they both managed to find their way to the Hellmouth, whether they were told or not.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For what it's worth, in an interview around S6-S7 Joss stated that there was no new Slayer called after Buffy's death in The Gift because the line no longer runs through her. Fans can take it or leave it as it was said in an interview as opposed to the canon of the show but it's an insight into his belief and intentions and why another Slayer never appears on the show.

                            I agree with Priceless that it's really unlikely that another Slayer wouldn't have shown up throughout the events of S7 if she existed. She would have absolutely been on The First's radar (the same way Faith was when she was attacked in prison during AtS S4) not to mention on the radar of The Coven too (who were locating Potentials). It makes far more sense for me to believe that Buffy and Faith were the only 2 Slayers and that the line now ran through Faith.

                            What I do find frustrating is how Buffy contradicts herself in S7. In Bring on the Night she very clearly believes that she and Faith are the only 2 Slayers ("That's what it wants" "To kill all the Potential Slayers along with their Watchers" "... and then Faith. And then me. That's the end. No more Slayer") but in Potential she tells the girls "my death could make you the next Slayer" despite not believing a new Slayer was called after her death in The Gift. I mean, it was obviously just a writing goof, so I can't hold it against her, but it's frustrating. Then again, Whedon goofed in his own script too (Chosen - "None of these girlies will ever no real power unless you're dead. You know the drill") despite stating the exact opposite in an interview

                            As for the Beljoxa's Eye, it does seem like a dropped plot point. I've tried to come up with a lot of different explanations for why Buffy's resurrection could "weaken the Slayer line" and I always come up blank. I guess I'm more confused about why The First could only attack the Slayers when the line was "weakened" in the first place. Unless Buffy's resurrection made all of the Potentials physically weaker or something, why did Buffy's resurrection make it any easier for The First's Bringers to stab all these girls to death which was pretty much all they were doing anyway? There was no mystical attack on the Slayers so I can't for the life of me work out how Buffy's resurrection and The Bringer's slaughtering Potentials would be remotely linked? The Beljoxa's Eye's explanation (or lack thereof) just seem like empty, vague, meaningless words, with no reason or logic to them.

                            My interpretation of The First's plan was that it intended to end the Slayer line so that evil would overrun the earth. This would then tip the balance in it's favour and it would be able to come corporeal again and, apparently, enter every man, woman and child on the planet. It says as much in Touched even if it's very brief and easily missed. I have no idea if that means it would be "corporeal" by virtue of the fact it could control people's bodies (like Caleb) or that it would actually solidify and have physical form itself. Who knows. It's all very vague and never explained
                            - "The earth is doomed" -

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by flow View Post
                              HardlyThere:

                              But wasn't there a flatline when Buffy was at the hospital?
                              The flatline occurs when Willow shows up and the electrics go all weird.

                              The exchange goes:

                              Xander: What are you doing? She's going to die.
                              Willow: No, she isn't.
                              She never died again.

                              I don't see a reason to doubt Joss's comments, not with what is suggested on the show. No new slayer showed up. Buffy doesn't *know* a new slayer would be called any more than she knew slayers had demonic origins, something she says isn't true in Restless. She is no authority on the slayer line. Even at the end, she only says what she thinks, not something factual.

                              Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
                              Who knows. It's all very vague and never explained
                              Entering Caleb isn't being corporeal. It just bonds with him, giving him power. It doesn't have a body. It doesn't seem to impose its will on him. Being corporeal is that big demon thing that we see shoot out of Willow and the final image of it in Amends.

                              I don't think it's ever implied it COULD only attack slayers when the line was weakened. It simply chose that time to do it because the situation created a possible outcome it wanted.

                              It is all on the vague side, but the Big Bad's ultimate goal on Buffy was always vague, except Glory. Angelus wants to suck the world in to hell. OK, then what? The Mayer wants to be a big snake. Then what? Do a little dance before he's hit with a MOAB? You would think the Judge incident would have taught him something about modern weaponry vs old school demons.

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