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BtVS's status given "Breaking Bad" and "Games of Thrones" are considered better?

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  • Hunga Munga
    commented on 's reply
    At it's best , Moonlighting could be amazing for it's time . It could be clever , playful and groundbreaking . Moonlighting , Hill Street Blues , 30something , Northern Exposure . These were the shows that I remember changing the way I regarded US television .

  • HardlyThere
    replied
    Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
    Whilst BtVS has inevitably fell out of the public conscious in comparison to more recent shows like Game of Thrones (it's over 20 years old!) dare I say that I think it's more beloved now then it even was back then? Like a lot of entertainment of it's era, BtVS has benefited greatly from 90's nostalgia and it is remembered of fondly IMO. I think the general TV viewer/mainstream is also a lot more willing to watch genre TV then it was back in the 90's and that the show's title and premise isn't so off-putting as it was back then.

    It's not a perfect series but it's a wonderful series. I've watched a lot of 'calibre' television that doesn't move me as deeply and with characters that may be interesting, well-written, and 'edgy', but who haven't touched my heart the way that these characters did. I've rarely been compelled to talk about other TV series on message boards and even when I do, it's short lived. The fact that I've been obsessed with this series for 23 years and have discussed it online for approximately 17 years, to me, speaks volumes about how much I adore this little series even if it's not objectively the 'best' out there. But it's pretty damn good, if you ask me.

    I really don't have any interest in passing judgement on people who prefer other series though. It says absolutely nothing about their intelligence. I do think BtVS is incredibly smart, nuanced, and complex, but it hasn't stayed with me for over 2 decades because it's cerebral. It's touched me emotionally and that's what matters. Whatever TV series captures someone's heart then that's fantastic and good for them.
    Agreed. I would not be here were it not true for me as well. When I say such things about fans being in an echo chamber regarding the show, it's only to point out that it's not taking into account the overall view of the show. It's not perceived to be on a level near GOAT contenders, so there's no reason to get miffed that it isn't high on IMBd or some other ranking site. To be honest, I find the constant need to rank everything tedious and dumb. Which series, which season, which episode, which character, blah-de-blah... But, as I said, BTVS fans don't even like great portions of the show. But of course BTVS fans by and large can't tell the difference between "I don't like this happening" and "this is bad writing".

    I try to view shows based on the execution of what they intended to do rather than some grand scale or even what I wanted them to be. I don't compare Buffy with, say, Rome because they are two completely different shows trying to do completely different things.

    Leave a comment:


  • bespangeled
    replied
    Originally posted by BtVS fan View Post
    I guess its personal preference but I thought the last books Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons were boring. While constantly repeating the line "where do whores go" doesn't make it any better.

    I'm guessing you've not seen Killing Eve or Peaky Blinders then ?

    Sopranos lost points because of that ending which was awful. And is there no Mad Men love here ?

    You shouldn't need a TV show to make you a better person, you were probably a good person already you just didn't know it
    I don't think they have quite the caliber of the earlier books, but I will say I am wildly curious as to what word Brienne shouted to Lady Stoneheart to save Pod. There's so much in the books that can't happen in the Benioff world.

    I've tried Killing Eve twice. Just can't get into it, and this from someone who loves Sandra Oh. Same with Peaky Blinders, actually.

    I agree, you don't need a tv show to make you a better person. You don't need any form of entertainment, literature, art, music, drama, comedy, etc. But all of those can make you a better person, too. For some reason Buffy made me start to call myself on my rationalizations. It wasn't instant, and it wasn't a conscious WWBD. But getting through losing my life as a physically mobile productive Montessori teacher and having 4 surgeries a year was a ****ing hard transition. Now that I am facing surgery number 16, Buffy still helps me face it without drama or self pity. Maybe I didn't need the show to make me a better person - maybe it was just to access some part of me that was always there. To me that's a moot point.

    I'm not alone in this. Just google 'Buffy saved my life' and you'll find a fair amount of others, as we all know. You're not going to find that from any of the other shows we've talked about here. Buffy works on a visceral level in a way that great art works. The sum is greater than the parts.

    Leave a comment:


  • GoSpuffy
    replied
    Originally posted by Priceless View Post
    Canadians are brutal
    I prefer sensible. Canadians are sensible. You've got Boris. The states has The Donald. Happy to say you can't find Canada on this list.......yet

    https://qz.com/1637059/75-years-afte...-has-returned/

    Leave a comment:


  • Priceless
    replied
    Originally posted by GoSpuffy View Post
    Haha we cut it for time before Trump was in office. That's our story, and we're sticking to it.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...loses-its-mind
    Canadians are brutal

    Leave a comment:


  • GoSpuffy
    replied
    Haha we cut it for time before Trump was in office. That's our story, and we're sticking to it.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada...loses-its-mind

    Leave a comment:


  • Priceless
    replied
    Maybe it'll be like Trump in Home Alone (in Canada, they don't give a toss do they 'eh) and they'll cut out all Pete scenes

    Leave a comment:


  • TriBel
    replied
    Originally posted by BtVS fan View Post
    It's not a Mini series, many British shows are normally 6 episodes ie Red Dwarf/Inspector Morse etc.
    Also the US TV networks did 22 episodes not because of story content but simply for ratings and to make money. Arguably (I say arguably) Buffy S2 is the best of the buffy seasons but realistically you could cut that down to 13 episodes it wouldn't ruin the story at all

    Also how can anyone not watch Rome HBO or the Tudors is beyond me
    I was making a point about averages and the fact that a good mini-series is likely have a higher aggregate score than a good series simply because there's less episodes/seasons to pull the score down (DMP - for instance scores only 6.4. Chosen 9.3. Becoming Pt.2 9.6. Chernobyl scores between 9.5 and 9.9 for 5 episodes).

    I like Rome - I've watched it at least twice. I can't understand why folk don't love Deadwood. I've got to watch it again because I had the movie for Xmas.

    Priceless:
    I really liked Mad Men when it aired, but the thought of watching it again depresses me no end. I'm not putting myself through that again
    I watched it on telly and then on DVD. I've just discovered I've also got it on Blu-ray. I'm hoping Pete isn't in the BR version. I hate Pete!

    Leave a comment:


  • Priceless
    replied
    I really liked Mad Men when it aired, but the thought of watching it again depresses me no end. I'm not putting myself through that again

    Leave a comment:


  • BtVS fan
    replied
    Originally posted by TriBel View Post
    It's daft including a mini series in the list because it's much easier to sustain a level of excellence across 3-6 episodes than it is across a season of 22/24 episodes multiplied by the number of seasons in a series.

    The Top Rated TV Shows list only includes TV series and TV mini series.

    The list is ranked by a formula which includes the number of ratings each show received from users, and value of ratings received from regular users
    To be included on the list, a series or mini series must receive ratings from at least 5000 users, and a TV series must also have aired at least 5 episodes


    Here's the demographic breakdown of the BtVS rating.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118276...?ref_=tt_ov_rt

    bespangled



    Good - and I mean that sincerely - but I think as BtVS fan does.



    As an academic, BtVS plays into my preferred critical perspective, which is what sustains my interest (and the interest of the academic community). As a viewer though, I prefer the scope of The Wire / Sopranos. I tend not to get emotionally attached to TV series (except temporarily) although I can see why people identify with and take succour in/support from various characters. I think this is BtVS' strength.

    @Silver. I watched BB until S3 but didn't really engage with it. However, I've bought it on Blu-ray and I'm going to give it another try...when I've finished watching Lucifer again.
    It's not a Mini series, many British shows are normally 6 episodes ie Red Dwarf/Inspector Morse etc.
    Also the US TV networks did 22 episodes not because of story content but simply for ratings and to make money. Arguably (I say arguably) Buffy S2 is the best of the buffy seasons but realistically you could cut that down to 13 episodes it wouldn't ruin the story at all

    Also how can anyone not watch Rome HBO or the Tudors is beyond me

    Leave a comment:


  • TriBel
    replied
    It's daft including a mini series in the list because it's much easier to sustain a level of excellence across 3-6 episodes than it is across a season of 22/24 episodes multiplied by the number of seasons in a series.

    The Top Rated TV Shows list only includes TV series and TV mini series.

    The list is ranked by a formula which includes the number of ratings each show received from users, and value of ratings received from regular users
    To be included on the list, a series or mini series must receive ratings from at least 5000 users, and a TV series must also have aired at least 5 episodes


    Here's the demographic breakdown of the BtVS rating.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118276...?ref_=tt_ov_rt

    bespangled

    The thing is, I know that Buffy made me a better person.
    Good - and I mean that sincerely - but I think as BtVS fan does.

    BTVS hit me in a way no other show has, and clearly that's the same for all of us
    As an academic, BtVS plays into my preferred critical perspective, which is what sustains my interest (and the interest of the academic community). As a viewer though, I prefer the scope of The Wire / Sopranos. I tend not to get emotionally attached to TV series (except temporarily) although I can see why people identify with and take succour in/support from various characters. I think this is BtVS' strength.

    @Silver. I watched BB until S3 but didn't really engage with it. However, I've bought it on Blu-ray and I'm going to give it another try...when I've finished watching Lucifer again.
    Last edited by TriBel; 28-12-19, 12:59 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • BtVS fan
    replied
    Originally posted by vampmogs View Post
    Whilst BtVS has inevitably fell out of the public conscious in comparison to more recent shows like Game of Thrones (it's over 20 years old!) dare I say that I think it's more beloved now then it even was back then? Like a lot of entertainment of it's era, BtVS has benefited greatly from 90's nostalgia and it is remembered of fondly IMO. I think the general TV viewer/mainstream is also a lot more willing to watch genre TV then it was back in the 90's and that the show's title and premise isn't so off-putting as it was back then.

    It's not a perfect series but it's a wonderful series. I've watched a lot of 'calibre' television that doesn't move me as deeply and with characters that may be interesting, well-written, and 'edgy', but who haven't touched my heart the way that these characters did. I've rarely been compelled to talk about other TV series on message boards and even when I do, it's short lived. The fact that I've been obsessed with this series for 23 years and have discussed it online for approximately 17 years, to me, speaks volumes about how much I adore this little series even if it's not objectively the 'best' out there. But it's pretty damn good, if you ask me.

    I really don't have any interest in passing judgement on people who prefer other series though. It says absolutely nothing about their intelligence. I do think BtVS is incredibly smart, nuanced, and complex, but it hasn't stayed with me for over 2 decades because it's cerebral. It's touched me emotionally and that's what matters. Whatever TV series captures someone's heart then that's fantastic and good for them.
    Regards the 90's nostalgia. It's ironic you mention that because the the show most popular back in the 90's and which there isnt any nostalgia for,is the Xfiles. It's hard to describe now how popular that show was. It was certainly an influence for Buffy (though more for the spin off Angel) . Writers like Tim Minear and actors such as Brian Thompson were brought over from that show. The whole World watched that show. Now no one cares and Chris Carter simply tries to squeeze one more penny from a franchise long dead.
    I tried to rewatch it on Amazon not to long back and it's so ridiculous I just cant take it seriously and was basically a giant mystery box show that would make JJ Abrams jealous.

    Leave a comment:


  • vampmogs
    replied
    Whilst BtVS has inevitably fell out of the public conscious in comparison to more recent shows like Game of Thrones (it's over 20 years old!) dare I say that I think it's more beloved now then it even was back then? Like a lot of entertainment of it's era, BtVS has benefited greatly from 90's nostalgia and it is remembered of fondly IMO. I think the general TV viewer/mainstream is also a lot more willing to watch genre TV then it was back in the 90's and that the show's title and premise isn't so off-putting as it was back then.

    It's not a perfect series but it's a wonderful series. I've watched a lot of 'calibre' television that doesn't move me as deeply and with characters that may be interesting, well-written, and 'edgy', but who haven't touched my heart the way that these characters did. I've rarely been compelled to talk about other TV series on message boards and even when I do, it's short lived. The fact that I've been obsessed with this series for 23 years and have discussed it online for approximately 17 years, to me, speaks volumes about how much I adore this little series even if it's not objectively the 'best' out there. But it's pretty damn good, if you ask me.

    I really don't have any interest in passing judgement on people who prefer other series though. It says absolutely nothing about their intelligence. I do think BtVS is incredibly smart, nuanced, and complex, but it hasn't stayed with me for over 2 decades because it's cerebral. It's touched me emotionally and that's what matters. Whatever TV series captures someone's heart then that's fantastic and good for them.

    Leave a comment:


  • HardlyThere
    replied
    Originally posted by BtVS fan View Post
    Normies I'm sorry but what the hell is a Normie and what's the difference between them and a Non Normie

    You also said Buffy was never nominated then say it was, that is a little contradictory to say the least
    1.) Google it.
    2.) A drama (writing) Emmy is a bit of a joke award. Exposed quite well by Game of Thrones. Writers don't even take it seriously, hence the joke about it on The Sopranos. For god's sake, it was nommed from a writing emmy for an ep with almost no dialogue. They could have at least gave it a nom for best direction, which was well done.

    Leave a comment:


  • BtVS fan
    replied
    Originally posted by bespangled View Post
    Game of Thrones is an excellent book series. I've been a fan of it for over 20 year. There are 6 books written, and 1 or 2 more to go - which we have waited for him to write for a freaking decade. The television series took a few plots they liked, discarded a whole bunch they didn't like, then made up several that made no sense. A whore happily showing off the goods - yeah that fun to read about and look, a runaway princess nurse working on the battlefield - puhlease! Cersei's daughter wasn't killed, and the Sand Snake were seriously amazing deadly women. Also, Game of Thrones is the name of one book, not the series. Read the books. Far less gratuitous sex and rape - far more plots, and incredibly well drawn characters.

    Breaking Bad was technically great, but I gave up on it when I realized I didn't like any of the characters. Sopranos was god, but I never rewatched it. Lucifer was enjoyable until the end of the last season where it has the seeds of absolute greatness. Versaille, Vikings, and Guardian: The Lonely and Great God - I've happily rewatched all of them I've just started a rewatch of Supernatural, but I know I won't last the entire show because that show jumped all the marine life in the arctic ocean.

    BTVS hit me in a way no other show has, and clearly that's the same for all of us unless y'all are on Lucifer and Breaking Bad boards more than you are on this one. It had a clear moral strength, and a deep vulnerability. I care about the characters in a way that I just don't care about other groups of characters. If the characters don't touch you in that way then the show doesn't have that much to offer. I just shared the show with a friend and she...liked it. It didn't touch any place in her. Maybe we're different in some way. Maybe Joss is right, and we are simply better people.


    The thing is, I know that Buffy made me a better person.
    I guess its personal preference but I thought the last books Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons were boring. While constantly repeating the line "where do whores go" doesn't make it any better.

    I'm guessing you've not seen Killing Eve or Peaky Blinders then ?

    Sopranos lost points because of that ending which was awful. And is there no Mad Men love here ?

    You shouldn't need a TV show to make you a better person, you were probably a good person already you just didn't know it

    Leave a comment:

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