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Positives and Negatives - S2

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  • #76
    Originally posted by Bittersweettwit View Post
    Personally, I’ve always believed that Buffy’s time in the Asylum did not really occur and that it was a monk inserted memory. I believe there’s a non-canon comic where we learn that the whole thing happened because Dawn went snooping in Buffy’s diary and then bought it to Joyce and Hank. Obviously Canon May contradict this at some point (or already has? I haven’t read seasons 10-11), but until then I choose to adopt it as head canon as it explains scenes like this, The Witch or Becoming where Joyce really should have mentioned the Asylum if it occurred in the original timeline.
    I like that, it cleverly deals with why there are troublesome early season moments where you would expect Joyce to react differently. It falls foul of the idea that big changes didn't happen though, that the memory insertions were small things. But I can perhaps argue that this a single 'big' thing the monk's did to increase the chance that Buffy would protect Dawn and hide her 'key' origination from everyone, including even her mother, if she found out about it (having experienced very anti-reactions to being considered 'other' herself in her past). Someone may come up with a reason this all doesn't work well, but at the moment I'm adding it all to my personal headcanon.

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    • #77
      Day 14 - Innocence

      Positives: This is such an important episode and it's so good. It is this episode, that helps to define who Buffy is going forward (and not just Buffy, it's a revelatory episode for every character) I can't just pick one or two things, it's too good an episode

      Negatives: Everything in this episode is positive, so this is just one little thing that stands out; Angel waking up naked then appearing in the alley fully clothed, including boots and coat. I forgive it because everything else is pretty perfect.

      Comment


      • #78
        Innocence

        Positive: If I have to pick one thing that's not Buffy with a recoilless rifle because that's too obvious I pick Angelus. Angel has his own TV series where he's the lead and in that entire TV series he never gets to be as cool as he is in the scene where he reunites with Spike and Drusilla. He ignites a match, lights a cigarette, growls at Spike and kisses him, they both laugh. It's fantastic!

        Negative: Buffy letting Angelus just walk away. I understand that she can't kill him, even if I personally don't like it - she's 16, she's in love with him and so on, it absolutely makes sense. However, that doesn't mean she can't contain him. Beat him, grab him, chain him, put him in a cage, make sure that he doesn't kill more people, then try to find a long-term solution. It's doable. It's obvious. Buffy just isn't thinking straight.

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        • #79
          Day 15 - Phases

          Positives: Like to see Willow forcing the issue with Oz 'oh you're special boy'

          Negatives:Hate Larry's behaviour before coming out, he's so ott it makes me cringe. The Xander/Buffy hug in the funeral home; why are they still teasing that relationship, give it up!

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          • #80
            Day 15 - Phases

            Positive - Oz's responses are interesting throughout. He shows his usual cool level headedness when he calls his Aunt but then, presumably in part affected by hearing talk of killing the werewolf as he arrives at the library, starts to try and deal with the situation alone without guidance/help. He was also fully prepared for Willow to not want to keep dating him. There is a degree of withdrawal and these initial barriers and reactions can be seen to make sense against his later decision to leave to gain greater control for himself.

            Negative - When Oz is chasing Willow in the woods (why in earthly heck would you run away from a werewolf into the woods btw!!), he is distracted from the meal he has been chasing that has fallen to the ground by the smell of the dumped pile of meat the hunter has thrown out a greater distance away. Really??! That makes no sense to me.

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            • #81
              Day 14 - Innocence

              Positives: This is one of my favorite episodes in the whole series!!! Xander was so awesome in this episode (yes, that's what matters to me heh) He was so badass when he saved Willow from Angelus, he was so perceptive when he realized something was off about Angel and he came back to save Willow, and then of course his birthday present to Buffy. Let's face it, Xander's presents to Buffy are always awesome (weapon chest in S6).

              Buffy breaks your heart in the episode but she kicks ass eventually. Willow's reaction to Xander/Cordelia was IMO as bad as Xander's way of handling Buffy's rejection, but like Xander, Willow gets over it and comes back to help. Also, Willow is far more observant than Giles when she notices that there's something wrong with Buffy.

              Giles not slut shaming Buffy and telling her that he has nothing but respect for her, such a wonderful scene!!!

              The scene in the beginning when Xander and Willow were so worried about Buffy and defied Giles' orders to stay put and not go out to help her. God, I hate the losers they became in S6 OMWF when they meekly agreed with Giles about not helping Buffy! S2 Xander and Willow rock! I've always said High School Xander is better than later seasons Xander.

              Negatives: Nothing. The whole episode was awesome!
              Made by Trickyboxes
              Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

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              • #82
                Day 15 - Phases

                Positive - Oz/Willow in general, Larry coming out to Xander, the beautiful Xander/Buffy hug and long stare of attraction after Xander saved her (I wish the show did go for Bander even for a bit, though I have to admit, I prefer S7 Bander over High School Bander.) I also liked Xander's line "Oh, no, my life is not too complicated."

                Negative - I wish more was done with Oz after he discovered he was a werewolf. His cousin is a werewolf and his parents knew and... nothing??? I wanna see Oz' parents being involved, also Oz dealing with what happened to him and how much his life was affected by it.

                Another thing I disliked was Xander's jealousy over Oz. Seriously, kid, make up your mind! Plus, you have a girlfriend!!!!
                Made by Trickyboxes
                Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

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                • #83
                  Catching up...

                  Lie to Me

                  Positives:
                  So many of them - it's one of my favorite episodes of the entire show! I think most of the great things about this episode have been mentioned already by others. I'll just add 1) I like the way the title can refer to so many things in this episode, with so many instances of people lying or keeping the truth from others, and instances of the opposite, where Buffy starts thinking that lying may have been better (after Angel tells her the truth about himself and Drusilla, which Buffy asked for, she probably feels like maybe it would have been better if she did not know such a terrible truth; and she says something similar to Giles at the end of the episode). And 2) I love the way the scenes in the Sunset Club makes fun of the romanticized vampire figure in a lot of fiction, but then the show also deliberately mocks itself for doing the same thing (Angel: "They know nothing about vampires, how they look, how they dress..." - A guy walks by who's dressed exactly like Angel.)

                  Negatives: I can't really think of anything. Well, here's one thing: Buffy is kind of BS-iting when she gives her speech to Ford - the whole "a demon sets shop in your body, but it's not you" pitch. Oh come on, Buffy, you don't really believe that - or else you wouldn't be worried about what Angel did to Drusilla when she didn't have a soul (either that, or you think Angel is still just a demon who sets shop in a human body - and I don't think you believe that). On the other hand, this isn't something I consider a flaw in the episode, because it makes sense that Buffy would try to use that pitch when talking to Ford about his plan to live forever by becoming a vampire.

                  (BTW, I'm pretty sure vamp Ford was staked by Buffy in the last scene of the episode, so, contrary to what someone said at one point, he did not actually get what he wanted. Spike did honor his word and sired him, but he also left his body for Buffy to find, instead of taking it with him, so of course Buffy was going to stake Ford the morning after the funeral.)

                  The Dark Age

                  Positives: It's always good to see an episode showing a character (Jenny this time) needing to deal with the trauma they've gone through.

                  Negatives: Cordelia and Xander are both OTT in this episode, Cordy being stupider and even more tactless than usual, Xander's quips feeling fake and annoying.
                  Also, Giles liked Bay City Rollers? Was that supposed to be a joke? It doesn't fit with his musical tastes as established later.

                  What's My Line pt 1:

                  Positives: This two-parter where Oz' characterization is really fleshed out for the first time (before that, we just knew he was picky about girls, and he liked Willow at first and second sight). I love this scene:

                  Buffy (takes him by the neck and shoves him against the wall): Try it!
                  Oz (confused): Try what?
                  Buffy (lets go): Uh, I’m sorry.
                  Oz: Still not clear what I’m supposed to try.
                  Buffy leaves, embarrassed.
                  Oz (to himself, pensive): This is a tense person.

                  That's not how 99% of people would react in that situation!

                  Negatives: Did we really need to watch such a long scene of Buffy ice-skating? That was entirely gratuitous. So SMG can ice skate, nice. So what?

                  What's My Line pt 2:

                  Positives: So many great character interactions! Xander/Cordelia, Spike/Dru/Angel, the Buffy/Spike fight, Buffy and Kendra talking about Slaying... Most importantly, the way Buffy and Kendra teach each other about Slaying: Buffy making a point to Kendra about emotions making her stronger and a better fighter, rather than the opposite. Kendra making Buffy understand that being a Slayer is not just a job, it's who you are, and that Buffy herself is the best example of that.
                  Kendra: You talk about slaying like it's a job. It's not. It's who you
                  are.
                  Buffy: Did you get that from your handbook?
                  Kendra: From you.

                  Negatives: Nothing about Kendra's sexy dress with bare midriff, heavy makeup and well groomed hair makes sense. It's in direct contradiction with the type of person and Slayer she's supposed to be, and with her shyness around boys and implication that she's taught to avoid any kind of flirting or interaction that can lead to romance/sex. I know Bianca Lawson originally auditioned for Cordelia and was among the finalists - but here she looks like the crew mistakenly prepped her to play Cordelia rather than Kendra! She's dressed more sexily than Buffy and Cordelia in this episode!
                  I can only find two ways to fanwank it: 1) her Watcher has told her that she'll entice more vampires that way (that would fit with what we see later in The Wish), and/or 2) her Watcher is a total perv and wants her to look like that for his own pleasure. Or, I guess, both could be true... he could be telling her 1) while the real reason is 2).

                  Ted

                  Positives: John Ritter is great as a robot version of Terry O'Quinn's character from The Stepfather, and the episode makes some good points about patriarchy. Ritter is also hilarious when the bot starts malfunctioning.
                  Also, some of the lines. like Giles: "I think the subtext is quickly becoming text" or Cordelia wondering why Buffy can't be above the law, as she's like Superman:
                  Willow: Sure... In a fascist society!
                  Cordelia: Right! Why can't be have one of those?
                  (It does make Cordelia kind of dumb, but still a great exchange, and the show making a good point in a snarky way.)

                  Negatives: Buffy and the rest of Scoobies freaking out and being disgusted by seeing Giles and Jenny make-out. Come on, really? Would any teenagers really be horrified by the sight of two adults making out (unless it's, say, one of their parents cheating on the other)? Those kind of scenes always felt stupid and fake to me.

                  Bad Eggs:


                  Positives: There are lots of individual things to like in this episode, which isn't that awful as people often make it out to be. The Gorch brothers are fun, but I also like that even Giles drops the "vampires have nothing to do with the humans they used to be" Watcher act when talking about them:

                  Giles: They made their reputation massacring an entire Mexican village in 1886.
                  Buffy:Friendly little demons.
                  Giles: No, that was before they became vampires.

                  Negatives: Come on, Angel. Buffy is 16. Do you really think she should be already thinking about having children? What even makes you think you two will stay together long enough for Buffy to want children while she's still in a relationship with you? You know that you don't actually have to remain until death do you part with the person you're dating at the age of 16? Well, I guess you were born in the 18th century, after all. But the show seems to want us to take your words seriously and think you have a point?

                  Surprise

                  Positives: Buffy's dream is such a beautiful, haunting sequence, especially with the song accompanying it. Spike has great lines and moments in this episode, from challenging the Judge openly (even sticking a finger in his chest and saying "Remember we were the ones who brought you back!") to countering Angel's offer of himself to be killed rather than Buffy with "You seem unclear on the concept - there's now instead, just first and second"). It's also nice to see him using brains and being the more cool-headed and rational one (something that has become the trend now that he's in the wheelchair). I love Oz' lack of shock when finding out about vampires. "Actually, that makes a lot of sense."

                  Negatives: Two things that bring this episode down for me: the Bangel goodbye scene is way too melodramatic and corny. Come on, he was just supposed to be going away for a few months. It's not the end of the world. (You'll get that not that long after.)

                  And a really big problem, which I'm surprised no one else has mentioned: the awful "Gypsy curse" stereotype. I feel that people nowadays criticize BtVS too much for racial insensitivity (for episodes like Inca Mummy Girl), but in this instance it's entirely justified criticism. Come on, this is the same kind of crap you can find in 1920s Hollywood horror movies. Joss has said in the commentary that he wanted to go with the "classics" and joked that "Danish curse wouldn't sound so good". But why, Joss? BtVS is known for subverting stereotypes. Why not subvert a stereotype and have a Danish or Norwegian or Dutch curse, if you have to have a curse in your story? That would be way funnier and less expected, and you wouldn't be using a stupid, racist cliche about Roma people, one of the most oppressed groups of people in the world.

                  Also, the "happiness" clause is idiotic. How the heck is that even a revenge, if he turns soulless and evil again and starts killing people again? Congratulations, you just made it possible for him to kill a lot more people and do awful things - and it also doesn't even make sense as a revenge, as he stops suffering after he loses his soul!

                  Innocence:

                  Positives: I could be listing things all day, this is of course a great episode, one of the best of season 2. What hasn't already been mentioned? I like the way Angel(us) (I hate calling him Angelus at this point, since the whole thing with calling him 'Angelus' only when he's soulless started in late season 3, so I'll call him Angel as everyone does at this point) growls angrily when Spike says he used to be Slayer's lapdog, apparently about to attack Spike, then stops himself and diffuses the situation by kissing Spike on the top of his head and they laugh like buddies. It hints at the complexity of his feelings - that a lot of what he does may not just be 'evil for evil's sake', but his anger and shame for having felt such human love for the Slayer, and desire to hurt her ("She may me feel human. That's something you don't forgive"), as well as the complexity of his relationship with Spike. Buffy using a rocket launcher to kill the Judge and making a point about old prophecies not being the be-all and end-all. Spike mocking the Judge earlier for his inactivity and generally being not to impressed by him.

                  Negatives: The biggest problems are: the same things that I already talked about in Surprise (the Gypsy curse), and the fact Buffy doesn't even try to capture and imprison Angel after defeating him in the fight - that really doesn't make sense.
                  Other than that - smoking and wearing leather clothes as a sign of turning evil? Come on, what a cliche.
                  You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    "What's My Line? - Part 2"

                    Positive: All of the Buffy-Kendra interaction. I love their constant snarking at one another, followed by the undercurrent of mutual respect and admiration as we see at the end of the episode. They act more like real sisters in this one episode than Buffy and Faith or Buffy and Dawn did, IMO. Loved the fact that Kendra doesn't hug and her constant "hit first, ask questions later" attitude is, IMO, less about procedure and more about her Slayer love of violence (something we'll see more with Buffy and Faith later on). I always like when Buffy is interrogating Willy and Kendra yells, "Just hit him, Buffy!" She likes to hit. Other favorite lines: "Back off, Pink Ranger!", "Buffy's a student here? Right, and I imagine she's a cheerleader as well...

                    Negative: How the hell was Giles not notified about the activation of another Slayer? It's another example of the ineptitude of the Watcher's Council, but now that I think about it, had the Council even been written into the show at this point? I don't think we hear about the Watcher's Council for the first time until "Faith, Hope and Trick".

                    "Ted"

                    Positive: Cordelia noticing that Ted's rug didn't match the décor, allowing the gang to discover the trapdoor underneath. I wish we had seen that type of intelligence from her more often. It's extremely useful and fits in perfectly with her personality, like her noticing the hellbeast in "The Prom" only going after people with nice clothes. It would have been much better to see more of that from Cordelia instead of stuff like the aforementioned "Why can't we have a fascist society?", one of the few Cordelia jokes that didn't work.

                    Negative: The fact that Ted turns out to be a robot and the events of the episode have no lasting effect on any of the other characters really takes away its impact.

                    "Bad Eggs"

                    Positive: I like how Willow seemed to be the leader of the possessed people. She was the one who set Giles up, she lead everyone into the basement, she was the one who instructed everyone to kill Buffy and Xander.

                    Negative: Joyce. Get off Buffy's ass! Instead of being glad that her daughter is okay after a school gas leak, she wants to ground Buffy some more.

                    "Surprise"

                    Positive: The parallels between Buffy and Drusilla throughout the episode. I love the shot where the close-up on Buffy's face transitions into a close-up on Dru's. And Oz finding out about vampires! My favorite incarnation of the Scoobies is present at Buffy's party. Buffy, Xander, Willow, Giles, Cordelia, Angel, Jenny, and Oz with Spike and Dru as the villains. My favorite era of the show honestly.

                    Negative: It feels like Buffy is crying over Angel in, like, every other scene. And he hasn't even turned evil yet! "The part at the end of every night where we say goodbye... it's getting harder." Honestly girl, get a grip.

                    "Innocence"

                    Positive: When the Judge tries to burn Angel, but can't. The Judge's disinterested delivery of "There's no humanity in him" is great -- Spike and Dru are all happy that Angel's evil again, but the Judge just saunters away all disappointed and depressed like he was really looking forward to getting to burn someone alive, but can't anymore. Great.

                    Negative: Yeah I agree with Sosa lola about Willow's reaction to Xander/Cordelia. It's really no different from, say, Xander finding out about Buffy/Spike in "Entropy" / "Seeing Red". But I really love Alyson Hannigan's acting, so her discovery of Xandelia still hits me in the feels whenever I see it.

                    "Phases"

                    Positive(s): The heavy focus on Xander. I consider this a Xander-centric episode even though nobody ever really talks about it. It explores his distinct, but nonetheless very interesting relationships with the three women in his life -- Buffy, Willow, and Cordelia -- along with his interactions with other males -- his rivalries then budding friendships with Oz and Larry. Oh, I *love* that scene with Xander and Larry. Even though Xander's not really gay, it kind of works as a commentary on what an "effeminate" male he is.

                    Willow bursting into Oz's living room and telling him off.

                    This exchange between Oz and Larry about Willow is pretty nice, too:

                    Larry: "That little innocent schoolgirl thing is just, uh, just an act, right?"
                    Oz: "Yeah. Yeah, she's actually an evil mastermind. It's fun."

                    Oh, and I love how Cain the werewolf hunter is Sahjhan from AtS.

                    Negative: Willow giving Buffy grief about defending herself from Larry trying to touch her. "Don't forget, you're supposed to be a meek little girly girl like the rest of us." Forget that. RKO his ass, Buffy!
                    Last edited by Andrew S.; 04-02-18, 08:45 PM.

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                    • #85
                      Phases

                      Positive: I love Willow's little tirade at Oz's place. Here you are all alone in your house doing nothing by yourself! She's hilarious!

                      Negative: Look, I like trashy no/low-budget horror movies and I understand: TV show, 90s, not a lot of money for the monster costumes but this needs to be said - that werewolf is bad! It's not scary. It's not repulsive. It's not even funny. It's just awful.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        I forgot Phases...

                        Phases

                        Positives I've always loved the way the episode plays with stereotypes of masculinity and subverts expectations by revealing Larry to be gay (great scene indeed) and Oz to be a werewolf. I love Larry's minu-arc, even if it may be slightly unrealistic that he becomes comfortable with his sexuality so quickly? Oz's matter-of-fact reaction to finding out he's a werewolf is so Oz-like, I love it.

                        Negatives: Oh, great, again a female character makes a joke about how she is supposedly crazy and awful when she is having her period. You can really tell the episode was written by two men.

                        Also, Willow slut-shames Cordelia, which is stupid - out of all the things she could say about Cordelia, that she's a bully, mean, shallow, a snob, why do the Scoobies always resort to calling her things like a "scanky ho", when that doesn't even make sense? Sexism aside, it's not like she's emore sexually active than the rest of them. I'm a bit more ambivalent about this as, in general, I see the difference between depiction and endorsement in fiction, and I don't expect 1990s school kids to be all PC and feminist. I don't get all judgy about the show over it as some other fans tend to these days. Still, it's not clear at times if we're supposed to be applauding Willow and Buffy when they're insulting Cordelia that way, or what (since Willow and Buffy are usually supposed to be seen as characters with the right kinds of views, unlike Cordelia). And I also want to point it out because they are so many fans on Tumblr and other places who are always skewering Xander over such comments, but when Willow or Buffy make them, thet get off scot free.
                        You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Day 16 - Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered

                          Positives: Brilliant episode, so many positives to choose from but I shall just mention Xander being wrong footed at every turn, and only wanting a short-term love spell Angel, Spike and Dru are just great, and Cordy's speech to Harmony is iconic

                          Negatives:Xander still referencing his feelings for Buffy, give it up man. How does Buffy get away with that leopard skin skirt slit up to the woohoo, and they have the gall to criticise Cordy's dress sense.
                          Last edited by Priceless; 09-02-18, 01:15 PM.

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                          • #88
                            Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered

                            Positive: Buffy and Willow are so sexy in this episode, I mean, before they get all angry and murderous. Buffy in that white top, wearing impeccable hairdo, Willow in Xander's shirt with the biting and stuff. They're amazing. It's eye candy. Lewdness. Porn.

                            Negative: Buffy praising Xander for not raping her. I know that Buffy's recent experiences with men were less than ideal but still, this is just sad. Xander didn't come through, Buffy, he was just being normal.

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                            • #89
                              Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered

                              Positive: While I'm generally not a fan of love-spell stories, this episode actually does it right by pointing out (through Giles's words explicitly, but also everything that's happening) that it's not actually a love spell, it's a spell for an obsessive, absurd, over-the-top infatuation, which is not love, and it's important to know the difference between the two. And being the object of that kind of "love" is really not pleasant.
                              I wanted to stick to just one positive, but I have to mention that the Angel/Dru "heart" scene is so wonderfully twisted and awful, and the Cordy/Xander break-up scenes are really well done and kind of make me root for them even though I know how it turns out.

                              Negative: ...But the ending is a really big problem. Buffy praising Xander for coming through and not raping her (I guess she did not have a high opinion of him before, which seems pretty disturbing as they have been friends for so long) is bad enough, but what's even worse is that Cordelia thinks Xander was trying to mind-control and rape her (as opposed to just mind-control and reject her... which is also bad, but the "good version" that Cordy believes in is even worse), and is happy for it because she sees as a sign of Xander's love for her. Now, Cordy may not be the most 'woke' person, as people would say today, but the narrative presents that as a triumphant moment, as a happy ending with the rising music and all... what the heck is up with that? In other circumstances, I'd be happy for Cordy telling off her snobbish friends and deciding to openly date Xander, but like that, it's just very weird and uncomfortable.
                              You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Day 16 - Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered

                                Positive - I love the Angel/Dru/Spike scene, we've seen notes of discontent already from Spike but this is probably one of the first clear unambiguous indications that he is not happy with how things are changing. Of course this view of their dynamic continues from here, Dru's slap in the face of bringing the dog to him and them not even noticing Spike's gaining his strength back and it all plays towards the truce. But this scene is great for providing a link backwards too with Angel's taunting and enjoyment of Spike's displeasure matching so well to the scene in WML when he goads him about his inadequacies with Dru. The complex history that we'll eventually learn more of between these three works so well with what we are seeing here and informs what has passed as well as what is to come. There's just some great depth driving through the relationships and that's one of the things BtVS does the best.

                                I'm cheating too this time in not keeping to just one because I also really want to say how much I love Cordelia's line "I'll date whoever the hell I wanna date. No matter how lame he is." She gives and takes away.

                                Negative - I do like the above scene with Cordy choosing to openly date Xander but the aspect of trying to control people's minds and take away their autonomy that comes with the spell isn't really given focus. Yes the negative aspect of a love spell is definitely there, but even if we're only viewing this as Xander trying to get Cordelia to humiliate herself because her rejection of him hurts, that the intent was to mind control her should have been met with anger even if it was tempered by understanding (and knowing the limit of what he was intending). Perhaps the lack of reaction to that aspect plays into how/why Xander again falls to similar behaviour for a non-aggressive intention in OMWF. I'll be really interested to see if this is raised by Aurora at the end of the rewatch review at all (and will ask her what she thinks if not ).


                                Day 17 - Passions

                                Positive - An outstanding episode and a favourite in the whole series. The death of Jenny really has guts to it and puts some weight/impact to Angel having lost his soul that isn't just red shirts falling in the alley, an uncle we don't know/like much, a school friend we've never really known before or unknown shopgirls. It isn't just that Jenny is killed, it is also the placing of her in Giles' flat is horrific and actually meets the image/persona of Angel in technicolour that they have tried to hint at with references to the history books. It is one of the more gutsy writing choices they made and the emotive acting from ASH is incredible.

                                Negative - I think Buffy stopping the fight when she has a clear advantage to press to save Giles who doesn't seem to be in any more immediate danger than when the fight started didn't work well. He should have seemed more at risk to pull her away at that moment I think.
                                Last edited by Stoney; 06-02-18, 10:36 AM.

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