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Positives and Negatives - S2

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  • Holy Molly, I need to catch up, the mister and I are already at Pangs in our big (re)watch ^^

    Reptile Boy

    Positive: Buffy/Willow/Xander braiding each other's hair and watching un incomprehensible bollywood movie. Also I never get tired of penis monsters.

    Negative: Angel being Angsty Pants for...some reason ? Pushing her away by pointing out her naivety but also not really pushing her away ? Also, "when you kiss me I want to die" ? Are you alright there Buff ?

    Halloween

    Positive : Willow in charge is always delightful. Also her scaring Giles : iconic.

    Negative : sorry to rag on Angel again but...him calling the women in his time "simpering morons" ? This is completely a "you're not like those other girls that are icky and have cooties" deal, and I'm not loving it. Definitely a "faux feminism" failure on the writer's part here.
    What a challenge, honesty
    What a struggle to learn to speak
    Who would've thought that pretending was easier

    Comment


    • Skippcomet
      Skippcomet commented
      Editing a comment
      Are we really expecting somebody who was born in the 18th century and was a vampire for over 200 years (and at this point, we knew very little of the details of said unlife) to have completely modern and "feminism-approved" attitudes (for lack of a better term)?

  • Are we really expecting somebody who was born in the 18th century and was a vampire for over 200 years (and at this point, we knew very little of the details of said unlife) to have completely modern and "feminism-approved" attitudes (for lack of a better term)?
    This is a very good point.

    But I would also take into account the fact that Angel managed to have a great time with the Rat Pack in the 1950's, and go to Elvis and Priscilla's wedding in the 60's. He didn't live as a monk for all those years he had a soul. He also read a great deal, including Sartre and probably a lot of other philosophy. He presented as the strong silent sensitive type when it pleased him to. People can have many qualities and and are often an enigma to themselves.

    So I think we under estimate Angel if we don't pull him up on his everyday sexism, because he's lived a full life, is widely travelled and widely read, he's mixed with princes and paupers and he's a sensitive soulfull type and I think it's valid to expect more understanding from him.

    Comment


    • I think it's greatly about context. He was trying to say something reassuring and dismissive of her concerns about not matching up to a specific image she had. Pulling down the image is a quick and easy way to try to brush aside the thought, if he never saw women of his time as she is suggesting. It is a vacuous comment that is definitely problematic but I don't think it necessarily reflects his point of view. Although I think from what we see of Liam it isn't entirely implausible that he would think those of a higher social status were uppity, boring and those women trying to move in society, find a husband etc, were behaving like simpering morons. He clearly wasn't respectful of the social standing and perceived 'proper' behaviour. But we saw how woo'ed he was by Darla and she presented as a worldly, wise and cultured woman. Which I think supports that he was just trying to brush aside Buffy's insecurity.

      Comment


      • Are we really expecting somebody who was born in the 18th century and was a vampire for over 200 years (and at this point, we knew very little of the details of said unlife) to have completely modern and "feminism-approved" attitudes (for lack of a better term)?
        No,I'm expecting him maybe to have 18th century minset, not 90s mindset, which is precisely what bugs me. It doesn't feel grounded in Angel's character (though he doesn't much of it at this point), and thus he is more of mouthpiece for the writers . I don't care about characters being problematic, but they better be in a way that makes sense. To me the idea that women in the 18th century were simpering morons is more a modern one than anything else.
        Not to mention that this is another instance where Angel feels, to me, like an absolute ass when clearly we're meant to go "aw". It's the dissonance that annoys me.
        What a challenge, honesty
        What a struggle to learn to speak
        Who would've thought that pretending was easier

        Comment


        • Don't mind me, just keep'in on keep'in on...

          Lie To Me

          The great ones are the most difficult to do this for, so I won't wax poetics about how thematically rich it is, and how it sets up the philosophy of the show, gets some much needed character development for Buffy, Angel, Drusilla, etc..

          Positive:

          Gotta be that final scene between Giles and Buffy. It resonates way beyond this episode; you hear it and you can feel the entire series flowing through it. Truly powerful, and the performances are just perfectly understated.
          HM to the scene where Angel reveals the truth about Drusilla : it's beautifully shot, and has an amazing sense of foreboding.

          Negative:

          Was the entire makeup department high ? Everyone looks so weird ! Angel looks like the lovechild of a mime and a clown.

          The Dark Age

          Positive:

          "BUFFY: Have I ever let you down?
          GILES: Do you want me to answer that? Or should I just glare?"
          It's not a very good episode, ok ? So basically Buffy and Giles interacting.

          Negative:

          A lot of cheese, camp and cringe. Also meh. I love me some Giles but this was not the best way to introduce us to Ripper.
          What a challenge, honesty
          What a struggle to learn to speak
          Who would've thought that pretending was easier

          Comment

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