Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

S8 = Canon

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Holy jesus that's a lot of replies. Well obviously no matter what I say about the money issue we're not going to agree on so I'm not even going to bother to repeat myself over and over again to all of the responses since we won't get anywhere. But.... quick question for ya'll. Do you guys consider 1.) the original Buffy movie, 2.) the comics made while the series was running, and 3.) the Buffy video games to be canon?

    'Cause I sure don't understand how they couldn't be if they were all either created by Joss, written by Joss, or had Joss involved somehow. Why are these new comics different? For the Buffy movie Joss said his script was screwed around with but lets be honest, it was going to be a cheesy movie whether or not they did screw around with it. There had to be a lot of the original script in that movie and it still turned out to be horrible. And why wouldn't we take into consideration the old comics and the events that happened there? I just don't understand how if we're making a big deal about the new comics and how they're canon, why aren't the old ones considered that as well. And then the Buffy games. Hell those included the actual actors doing the voice overs for the characters they've been playing for years. Why can't we say the s/l of the video games didn't happen? This whole canon thing just doesn't make any sense to me.
    T _A _T _E _R _S'____ W _O _R _L _D

    Proud recipient of the "Vagenis Award of Excellence"

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by holypotatoes View Post
      Holy jesus that's a lot of replies. Well obviously no matter what I say about the money issue we're not going to agree on so I'm not even going to bother to repeat myself over and over again to all of the responses since we won't get anywhere. But.... quick question for ya'll. Do you guys consider 1.) the original Buffy movie, 2.) the comics made while the series was running, and 3.) the Buffy video games to be canon?

      'Cause I sure don't understand how they couldn't be if they were all either created by Joss, written by Joss, or had Joss involved somehow. Why are these new comics different? For the Buffy movie Joss said his script was screwed around with but lets be honest, it was going to be a cheesy movie whether or not they did screw around with it. There had to be a lot of the original script in that movie and it still turned out to be horrible. And why wouldn't we take into consideration the old comics and the events that happened there? I just don't understand how if we're making a big deal about the new comics and how they're canon, why aren't the old ones considered that as well. And then the Buffy games. Hell those included the actual actors doing the voice overs for the characters they've been playing for years. Why can't we say the s/l of the video games didn't happen? This whole canon thing just doesn't make any sense to me.
      No to all three, except for the ones Joss specifically identifies as canon. The others were no different from the tie-in novels: licensed by Fox, but not created, written, or involving Joss in any way as I understand it other than for having to pass his okay to avoid stepping on storylines that he had planned for the TV series, which was the real story as opposed to commercially produced fanfiction. Canon should only be questionable where there is no living creator to identify canon works, or where a living creator refuses to identify the canon works. Neither is true in this case; the creator is still living, and has specifically pointed out the material that is to be considered canon - everything else is just someone else's "made-up" stories in the same way that DC Comics used to do "imaginary stories" within the fictional Superman universe to distinguish them from stories that were part of the "real" continuity. (And few comics have had as screwed-up a continuity history as DC comics.) No one else has the right to decide what is or isn't canon in a case where the original creator can specifically *state* what is or is not. I don't see why that's in any way difficult to understand.

      Should "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen" now be considered canon to the stories of Tom Sawyer and Mina Harker and Allan Quartermain et al, just because someone later saw fit to write a story using all of those characters and a fair percentage of people who saw the movie probably have no clue where those characters originated and care less?
      "Occasionally, I'm callous and strange..." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Rowan Hawthorn View Post
        the TV series, which was the real story as opposed to commercially produced fanfiction.
        Exactly! There you will see my problem with the comics. I take each of these mediums to be completely different things. I know I shouldn't but unfortunately I do. I take the movie to be something different. I take the show to be something different. And I take the comics to be something different. I don't mix any of them together and that's where my problem lies. I understand what you guys are saying, I do get it, but to me it just doesn't matter. They're each different stories just with the same characters. So yeah I don't even feel like debating this any more since frankly, I don't really care too much. Season 8 is canon, congrats I guess.
        T _A _T _E _R _S'____ W _O _R _L _D

        Proud recipient of the "Vagenis Award of Excellence"

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by holypotatoes View Post
          Exactly!
          You neglected to emphasis an important part of that sentence:

          Originally Posted by Rowan Hawthorn
          the TV series, which was the real story as opposed to commercially produced fanfiction.
          Originally posted by holypotatoes View Post
          There you will see my problem with the comics. I take each of these mediums to be completely different things. I know I shouldn't but unfortunately I do. I take the movie to be something different. I take the show to be something different. And I take the comics to be something different. I don't mix any of them together and that's where my problem lies. I understand what you guys are saying, I do get it, but to me it just doesn't matter. They're each different stories just with the same characters.
          Except that the current comic is the official continuation of the same storyline as the TV series, instead of someone's pastiche of what might have been going on in between the actual episodes.

          Originally posted by holypotatoes View Post
          So yeah I don't even feel like debating this any more since frankly, I don't really care too much. Season 8 is canon, congrats I guess.
          Huh. People say they don't care and don't want to debate it, but they keep bringing it up and making an issue of it...
          "Occasionally, I'm callous and strange..." - Willow Rosenberg, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by holypotatoes View Post
            1.) the original Buffy movie, 2.) the comics made while the series was running, and 3.) the Buffy video games to be canon?
            No they're not canon. The original Buffy movie exists in a different canon than BtVS. And the Season 8 comics are canon because Joss has come out and said "this is officially what happens next" and how does he know this "I'm WRITING it". Direct quote of him. And regarding the point about how much time has passed between Chosen and the comics - Joss started writing and creating Season 8 back in 2005. A year after Angel ended. A big part of why he'd not jumped on it immediately - he'd been holding out hope for a Buffy movie or some live action Buffy continuation. But because that's near impossible for him to do (Kuzuis are ugh, actors have moved on, not enough money) he took the ideas he had for the movie continuation and made the comic.

            Canon isn't determined solely by Joss' involvement but more importantly by him declaring it official. There is a questionable area where certain projects exist and you can wonder - "is that canon?" But for Season 8 that question has been answered fully by the creator. It's canon. And he's the supreme authority on canon.

            I understand people who choose not to follow the comics, who say "that's not real to me." The key phrase here is "to me". It's real, it's canon, you're just not following the story anymore. It's like people who avoid watching Season 7 through rewatches or who quit watching the show at certain points like after the Scoobies graduated high school. Canon isn't determined by each individual viewer, it's determined by the creator(s). It'd be like saying you liked the first two books of Tolkien's LotR trilogy but didn't fancy the third. Or disregarding the earlier stories set in that universe.

            I just think people should try differentiating between canon and "not for me".
            sigpic

            Banner Set by thedothatgirl

            Comment


            • #21
              I'd just like to add that the video games weren't written by Joss. From memory they were written by Christopher Golden. Or at least the first one was, so nup not Canon. The video games are no different than the dozens of Btvs novels that have come out over the years. Novels that directly contradict the series. As for example… Faith showing up back in Sunnydale way before s7, Spike killing a Danish slayer instead of Nikki Wood, Buffy/Angel/Spike/Faith teaming up to save the world ect. They're all just licensed fanfic.

              I don't really see the complication with this issue. Something is canon if the creator says so. There's no real blurry line there, it's rather simplistic. There's a very clear divided line between what's canon and what's not.
              "The earth is doomed!" - Banner by Nina

              Comment

              Working...
              X