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The Origin

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  • #16
    Maybe Spike never actually killed any Slayers, and the flashbacks of him doing so are entirely false. Maybe Angelus was never really involved with killing Holtz family. This is the kind of ridiculous shit that becomes possible if we can pick and choose which flashbacks are canon based purely on our personal preference.

    Angel is NOT the only character to have lied, so I don't know why you keep bringing up this "Angel is a liar" thing. ALL the characters are liars by your standards.

    Angel has near photographic memory. It's unlikely that he'd remember this so wrongly.

    There was nothing in the actual episode itself to imply that the flashback was due to an Unreliable Narrator. If a show or movie utilizes the Unreliable Narrator technique, it's important to let the audience know. This episode does not do that.

    Your idea of Buffy lying in order to give Dawn confidence -and that lie lining up with Angel's falsified version of events, falls squarely under the definition of "fanwanking". This type of idea is literally what the word "fanwank" was invented for. You ought to know that.

    If the Origin was important to Joss, he'd have written it or overseen it himself. Or he'd have given it the canon stamp from day one, rather than waiting to be asked by a fan and then graciously acknowledging the book with the qualifier that he "has issues with it."

    The IDW stuff has no bearing on where the story is now. If you enjoy that stuff, read it. If you don't, don't. Joss won't do bullet points because it's simply not important.


    • #17

      * Given BtVS S8, Whistler was
      simply about getting Buffy and Angel together. Buffy needing to kill Angel wouldn’t be something Whistler would want.

      * The flashbacks in “Becoming Part I” (B 2.21) are about Angel. And they are interspersed within the context of uncursed Angel being “worthy” to take the sword out of Acathla and therefore awaken Acathla.

      - Whistler is not omniscient. Angel was there during the Drusilla flashback scene and the Buffy flashback scenes.

      * Given what Buffy does in the rest of The Origin , the flashback Graveyard Scene in that makes more sense than Buffy barely being able to dust her first vampire to days-later being the Vampire Slayer she is.

      Actually, thinking on it just now, it makes Angel worse if the flashback Graveyard Scene in “Becoming Part I” (B 2.21) is what actually happened. It’s over a year later before Angel first appears to Buffy. And he doesn’t much help with her slaying until pretty much BtVS S3.

      * “Fool For Love” (B 5.07) is not the thread topic.

      * That Joss Whedon should make bullet points about what from the comics is canon is self-evident. That he doesn’t speak to the tenuousness of the canon-status of the comics.

      * Joss has spoken of the canon-nature of The Origin after 1998. For the most part – things like how some of the vampires looks aren’t likely canon – the The Origin is what happened.