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Is s8 just part 2 of s7? Then what is s9.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
    @Dr.Lloyd

    I didn't know details about the contract that Joss had offered to Amber Benson in s7 (the number of episodes, the payment). It's a very interesting information. Where have you got it?

    (I swear, I don't try to undermine your words - I'm genuinely intrigued. I adore Tara and I always welcome any tidbits about her.)

    Thank you in advance!
    sure..
    I am this drlloyd11
    http://www.cise.ufl.edu/cgi-bin/cgiw...?date=20021013
    and this
    http://slayageonline.com/essays/slay...2/Williams.htm


    and this

    http://bb.bbboy.net/dusted-print?forum=20&thread=248

    and
    http://www.spoilerslayer.com/archives/001606.php


    Spike:" I don't like to brag. Who am I kidding? I love to brag. "
    Last edited by drlloyd11; 01-02-12, 01:03 AM. Reason: :)

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    • #32
      Originally posted by drlloyd11 View Post
      I'm at a loss. You're sourcing yourself? You facts are self-authenticating? I skimmed a couple of those, but didn't really see any independent confirmation of your version of the putative Return-of-Tara storyline falling through story.

      Oddly enough, when Spike said that line, it was to a room full of people who still weren't entirely sure who he was or what he was talking about. The parallel goes all the way through.
      sigpic
      Banner by LRae12

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      • #33
        Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
        I'm at a loss. You're sourcing yourself? You facts are self-authenticating? I skimmed a couple of those, but didn't really see any independent confirmation of your version of the putative Return-of-Tara storyline falling through story.

        Oddly enough, when Spike said that line, it was to a room full of people who still weren't entirely sure who he was or what he was talking about. The parallel goes all the way through.
        I love it
        Those posts were from/about me when the show was still on and I used be "into" spoilers.
        I think this is more of a "I was never wrong before, and I had all the dirt about the show when it was on, so why would I be wrong now".
        It sound egotistical, but I am sort of banking on my record rather than tell how I know.

        You don't have to believe me if you don't want. But you know...
        Last edited by drlloyd11; 01-02-12, 12:18 PM. Reason: ..

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Moscow Watcher View Post
          We definitely watched two different shows.

          Because, to be s6's thesis is that "heaven" was a mental ward in a hell dimension where Buffy was later sent by demon's poison in "Normal Again".
          That's a theory which you're entitled to have. However, it's not fact that Buffy's heaven was an asylum and I was always unsure on how that is even supposed to work. The Heaven that the writers were really pimping out for their stories was a other dimensionly heaven of some concept of perfect peace that no one could possibly understand.

          Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
          IBut, and it's a big but, I find it annoying that the season spent so much time giving credence to the idea that it might have been better for Buffy to be dead than to be alive. That is the premise that I think is getting branded as "anti-life". And I think it is a credible argument, to call that anti-life. Basically they pushed Buffy's fixation on how much being alive several episodes past where I think it could be defended. "Gone" was far enough, her epiphany that she didn't want to die, should have been a bigger turning point than it was.
          That is the thrust of the premise that I objected to- however Gone to Grave is way longer than several eps. It's also that the root of Buffy's unhappiness and which wasn't justified and what was justified was never well-articulated. The show seems to leave us with Buffy thinking that she was supposed to be "finished" like it was a good thing that Buffy died at 20 to get her heavenly reward. The show never gives purchase to the idea that dying at 20 sucks. No matter what the cause of death was- dying at 20 is a ****ing tragedy for the love ones AND the deceased. The show paints it as a heavenly reward and I never see that contradicted.

          Buffy's epiphany in Grave, even if I try to move past how sudden it is and how it's a clinical depression break through that occurs through literal and metaphorical magic, sucks. It's entirely Buffy wanting to live for others- to see Dawn grow up, to see her friends happy. No comment on how Buffy wants to live to find love or to finish college or to eat cookies and cheese or anything on living for herself. It's just another disingenuous way of being a martyr.

          I always thought as Buffy as Lieutenant Dan and Willow and the gang as Forrest Gump. Buffy had a very particular vision of her heroic death and just hated on Willow/the gang for tearing her from that all like Lieutenant Dan. However, Lieutenant Dan really gets that it's better for him to finish out his life as a cripple than die young and at the end, Lieutenant Dan finds a wife and gets a prosthetic and he totally gets that he couldn't do those things if he was six feet under. No such understanding on BtVS in any of the later seasons so far.
          Last edited by Dipstick; 04-02-12, 04:46 AM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dipstick View Post
            I always thought as Buffy as Lieutenant Dan and Willow and the gang as Forrest Gump.
            That is a unique comparison
            Suddenly the image as Willow at a bus stop with candy is trapped in my head

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            • #36
              I saw Grave, not as the solution to Buffy's problems, but to Buffy's reinvigorated belief that there might be a way of living with them, maybe... and the hope that springs from that.

              I haven't finished season 8 yet (got narked about the glowy nonsense and the airy fairyness of it all - I love BtVS's embodiedness, the way it plays with the literal and the metaphorical, rather than just diving into the mystical and going all charmed with the shiny magic). But it does sound as though season 9 offers a bit more of the unshiny, so, curious to read it. And, actually, to sit down and read season 8 all teh way through - I think it suffered from having such long waits between installations, leaving too much time to nitpick and not enough story flow.

              For that reason I think I'm going to try and hold off on season 9 til there's at least one collected volume out...and I'm going to go and look that up right now.


              -- Robofrakkinawesome BANNER BY FRANCY --

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              • #37
                Well If It's any consolation looks like Whedon would agree with you as I think he knows where they went wrong in 8. Now wether he's truly learnt from that experience is still anybodys guess.

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                • #38
                  Looking back on this I think I called it. All the S7 hallmarks are here.
                  Ignoring well loved characters...check
                  Adding terrible and annoying new characters with the grace of an anvil...check
                  Throwing away great potential plot lines..big time...

                  Everything has gone bad since the pregnancy was tossed for a dimwitted robot storyline..

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