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  • Spuffy in the Comics

    I hope everyone's reading Issue #40! The latest Spike/Buffy scene is made of win, daffodils and Christmas.

    We know for sure Buffy's still into him because we've been privy to her Cinemax-fantasies (the Spuffy scene in #37 being the only scene from #37 to #39 entirely written by Joss, by the way), but Spike seems more tight-lipped about his feelings than he was in the past. Why do you think that is? Because of the latest Angel/Buffy disaster? Because his love for her has cooled off over time? Because he knows she's at a place where she needs a friend more than a lover? Something else? Share!

    (set made by Francy for me)

  • #2
    So glad to see your enthusiasm about #40! I think Spike is 100000% sure that Buffy does not love him. His feelings are under tight wraps. But he's snarked enough for us to guess he still has a thing for Buffy, though I'd guess he's trying to move on and maybe even thinks he has moved on. But he's in Buffy's story, ergo he still loves her. It's a rule.
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    • #3
      We seem to have switched bases...! Everyone should read Maggie's analysis of the altered Spike/Buffy dynamic: Season 8: The Status of Being Beneath Her and Not Being Invited In. (And the comments' section! )

      (set made by Francy for me)

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      • #4
        I thought the business model was based on Enisy being the one to ask questions? I can't remember, but I think there's a six thousand odd post thread somewhere to support that

        I'm going to try to read Maggie's post -- and I should check to see Emmie's as well if she's done one -- but blogs and Blackberries don't mix well. On the subject of the invite, though, I really see no grey area -- Buffy can't. It doesn't answer the question of whether she wants to, or whether she's tried to ask already, or why even she would or wouldn't in either case, but that she herself simply can't is not controversial in the slightest to me.

        I assume nothing about either of their romantic feelings. For Joss to mean for 8.37 to establish an ongoing romantic interest on Buffy's part would throw at *least* two, arguably three Season 8 subplots under the bus completely, and certainly there's nothing rare or strange about fantasizing about an ex.

        Right now, I find their energy to be mostly platonic (by which I mean "almost pregnant"), with a definite raincheck quality to being together. I'd actually rather them spend all of Season 9 in, at most, a Logan/Veronica-as-non-couple place, because I'd like to see A) both have stories with no codependent overtones for at least a year, and B) for any Season 8 emotional follow-up for Buffy to actually be paid off.
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        • #5
          Enisy - thank you for the link! Maggie's essay is awesome.

          King - I don't think That Buffy daydreaming about sex with Spike was about "establishing an ongoing romantic interest on Buffy's part". I think it was about teasing the audience with the prospects. Ongoing romantic relationship and Buffy are unmixy.

          for any Season 8 emotional follow-up for Buffy to actually be paid off.
          Six months have already passed for Buffy, and maybe six more will pass by the start of season 9, so I think she'll have enough time to come to her senses and start thinking about romance again.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by KingofCretins
            I thought the business model was based on Enisy being the one to ask questions? I can't remember, but I think there's a six thousand odd post thread somewhere to support that
            Yes, yes. Just getting back into gear. (Should I try to revive the aforementioned thread, by the way? I was kinda fond of it, I don't know why. The lack of moderation, the trolling attempts and the general disarray of the place made it feel like a makeshift treehouse. )

            I'm going to try to read Maggie's post -- and I should check to see Emmie's as well if she's done one -- but blogs and Blackberries don't mix well. On the subject of the invite, though, I really see no grey area -- Buffy can't. It doesn't answer the question of whether she wants to, or whether she's tried to ask already, or why even she would or wouldn't in either case, but that she herself simply can't is not controversial in the slightest to me.
            I thought the same, but somebody pointed out to me that Andrew, by his own admission, was only "crashing" in Buffy and Dawn's place in The Girl in Question, and he could still invite Spike and Angel in. Probably it's just a continuity error on Joss's part.

            In any case, Maggie's essay doesn't deal with why she can't invite him in, but why she makes a big deal of it.

            I assume nothing about either of their romantic feelings. For Joss to mean for 8.37 to establish an ongoing romantic interest on Buffy's part would throw at *least* two, arguably three Season 8 subplots under the bus completely, and certainly there's nothing rare or strange about fantasizing about an ex.
            One of those subplots is Buffy-->Xander... what's the other two?

            Right now, I find their energy to be mostly platonic (by which I mean "almost pregnant"), with a definite raincheck quality to being together. I'd actually rather them spend all of Season 9 in, at most, a Logan/Veronica-as-non-couple place, because I'd like to see A) both have stories with no codependent overtones for at least a year, and B) for any Season 8 emotional follow-up for Buffy to actually be paid off.
            I'm on a wait-and-see mode when it comes to Spike/Buffy, too. I'd almost rather their relationship remains fraught but non-committal, as it is now, because bad things tend to happen to happy couples in Jossverse.

            ETA:

            (set made by Francy for me)

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            • #7
              Well, there are plenty of reasons, but the two best I can think of are --

              1) The teased tone and aesthetic of Season 9 and its place sort of in a "Batman"-ish space lends itself very well to Buffy being unambivalently single for a while.

              2) I'm quite happy with Xander/Dawn, but there is a very novel slice of character development here -- the fact that Buffy got flat out denied romantically. Nobody burnt up, nobody went to hell, there was no "we're together but not working out", no college lesbian fling. She wanted and got turned down. For those scoring at home, or even if you're by yourself, that's a series first. It would be a shame to just forego novelty and nice relationship development and awkwardness in that little threesome, including Dawn maybe finding out, etc, and to just dive right back into Buffy having a romantic arc in Season 9 would take all that off the table.

              I've swung most of the way back around on Buffy/Spike -- I'm never really gonna see her as being best off with a vampire -- but I can't think of a character, plot, or relationship that isn't better off for Season 9 if they just put that off for another season.

              EDIT: I've clarified this on the discussion thread, but whoever said that about "The Girl in Question" is straight up wrong. The unambiguous fact of canon is that that was never Buffy's home. The fact that Andrew invited them is in and of itself proof that it was either his place or it wasn't really occupied and it was all theatre.
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              • #8
                Something is not clear to me, re: Spike's invitation in Xander/Dawn's apartment... if all magic is gone from the world, why do vampires still need an invitation to enter someone's house? Isn't that still magic?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Francy
                  Something is not clear to me, re: Spike's invitation in Xander/Dawn's apartment... if all magic is gone from the world, why do vampires still need an invitation to enter someone's house? Isn't that still magic?
                  Allie addresses that in his ongoing Q&A --

                  Scott Allie: 'Cause with magic the authors get to make the rules, and we're saying that these things are characteristics of the individual creature, trapped in this non-magic world. So Slayers have their powers, their strength. That big C'thulhu thing Spike was chasing could fly. Vampires drink blood to live and can't go out in sunlight. And need an invite.

                  -- but I guess people won't be able to uninvite a vampire anymore...

                  Originally posted by KingofCretins
                  I've clarified this on the discussion thread, but whoever said that about "The Girl in Question" is straight up wrong. The unambiguous fact of canon is that that was never Buffy's home. The fact that Andrew invited them is in and of itself proof that it was either his place or it wasn't really occupied and it was all theatre.
                  Oh, that's right! That's one retcon that holds up to scrutiny.

                  (set made by Francy for me)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Enisy
                    Allie addresses that in his ongoing Q&A --

                    Scott Allie: 'Cause with magic the authors get to make the rules, and we're saying that these things are characteristics of the individual creature, trapped in this non-magic world. So Slayers have their powers, their strength. That big C'thulhu thing Spike was chasing could fly. Vampires drink blood to live and can't go out in sunlight. And need an invite.

                    -- but I guess people won't be able to uninvite a vampire anymore...
                    Ah, thanks..so it's just a case of convenient rules are convenient!

                    Mmm... trying to find something to say to make this post not total spam! .... Spuffy rules? LOL

                    Seriously, though... I have read a few reviews, and still can't make up my mind about the Spuffy scene in #40. I can't decide whether it's a nice scene, or a slap in the face. If some kind soul who has the comic would just transcribe the Spuffy scene/dialogue for those who don't have the comics, I would be grateful!

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                    • #11
                      Francy, if someone hasn't already, I will do a scene transcript when I get home from work

                      Enisy, the other relationships were the scorched earth of Buffy/Angel and the arguable one was any emotion about Satsu (who I hope is still a character).
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                      • #12
                        Coming right up ~

                        Spike: (taps on Buffy's window) Oi!
                        Buffy: (opens window) Are you parked on the roof again?
                        Spike: If you'd invite me in, I wouldn't have to crawl about, would I?
                        Buffy: Not my house, Blondie-Bear.
                        Spike: (kneels on the fire escape, while Buffy perches on the window sill) I've begged you not to call me that. Reminds me of that moron who -- among other things -- has completely ruined Dancing with the Stars this season.
                        Buffy: Did you come here for any reason at all?
                        Spike: (looking concerned) Rumblings, pet. While you're gadding about serving crappuccinos, I'm keeping my ear to the ground. Somebody's coming for you.
                        Buffy: (likewise) Who?
                        Spike: I haven't actually got that bit yet.
                        Buffy: Wow. Thank god you've got my back.
                        Spike: (standing back up) Well, who else does right now?
                        Buffy: (coming out to meet him on the fire escape) Don't worry about me. Giles left me this super-useful book.
                        Spike: Look, I know everybody thinks you're a useless bint that ruined everything right now --
                        Buffy: (twitchy) Why did we ever break up?
                        Spike: -- but I know the truth. (looks away, with a wistful expression) You were faced with decisions no one has to make. Attacked -- controlled -- by forces no one comprehends. And you pulled your people through. (Buffy has her mouth open; she seems moved and surprised) So, honestly? **** anybody who thinks they could've done better. The world was on fire. The world is always on ****ing fire and you're always right in the thick of it and the only difference this time is that people actually noticed. So they judge. And they carp, and debate -- but put the Scythe in their hands and they'd shake like trifle on a train.
                        Buffy: (looks down) I broke the Scythe.
                        Spike: Yeah, I didn't really get what that thing was. The point is --
                        Buffy: (covers her face with one hand; she's crying) Got it.
                        Spike: (frowns) What's wrong with you?
                        Buffy: (jumping back inside the window) Nothing! Good talk! Come again!
                        Spike: (off-camera) You're weird.
                        Buffy: (trips over the window ledge; only her foot is visible) Ack! Ow!
                        Spike: I live on a dirigible run by insects and you're still particularly weird.
                        Buffy: Got it! You're still not invited in! Bye now!

                        This is followed by a panel of Spike's ship as it's departing, with this voice-over from Buffy: "Alone. Every night."

                        There is a lot of different angles and zoom-ins and zoom-outs, but I'm too lazy to describe everything. Anyway, I think you have to see it for yourself.

                        (set made by Francy for me)

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                        • #13
                          I actually think the non-invite is Buffy's (non) doing. Whether she could do it herself or ask others, it's plain she doesn't want him invited in. I just don't think it's rejection. See the essay Enisy kindly linked to.

                          I agree it'd be fine to not plow into Spuffy land immediately in season 9. But it's simmering along there. She's got romantic feelings for him and is being defensive and weird around him. Those are elements that are usually put into stories because they are going to come into play at some point.

                          But I definitely agree that part of what's the what right now is that Buffy needs time to get herself sorted.
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                          • #14
                            Thank Enisy (and thanks King for the intention), and thanks MW for providing useful links!!!

                            Sounds like your typical Spike and Buffy interaction, more pre-season 7ish than season 7ish. But actually, it's something new. Their banter has a different feel to it, because now they are truly equals (no one is beneath or above anyone, no one is begging for love, etc.).

                            And I love that - repressed feelings and unresolved issues aside - they are clearly friends. The fact that they built this friendship is one of my favourite things about them. Where they go from this friendship, it remains to be seen!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Maggie
                              I actually think the non-invite is Buffy's (non) doing. Whether she could do it herself or ask others, it's plain she doesn't want him invited in. I just don't think it's rejection. See the essay Enisy kindly linked to.

                              I agree it'd be fine to not plow into Spuffy land immediately in season 9. But it's simmering along there. She's got romantic feelings for him and is being defensive and weird around him. Those are elements that are usually put into stories because they are going to come into play at some point.

                              But I definitely agree that part of what's the what right now is that Buffy needs time to get herself sorted.
                              I have pointed out and still believe that, left to purely their own discretion, neither Xander nor Dawn would just glibly invite Spike in unless, y'know, kinda like Wes and Angel in Season 2 kind of stuff. But if Buffy pressed the issue, I also think they'd relent. So, yeah, it's either because Buffy is keeping him secret -- which is just really out of character for her -- or she hasn't pressed the issue. So, yes, in that sense, it's still her choice. I just don't question that she cannot do it herself, since there is not a shred of canon that contradicts it.

                              As for her feelings... I don't see enough her to say she definitely has the feelings, that would turn them into the same supposed fait accompli that she and Angel were supposed to be, and that way demon portals lay. Plus, I think it really undermines what to me would be in Season 9 the far more interesting new material for her emotionally. But there is definitely room there; I just think they need to be nothing more than distant speculation. Sorta that "are they... did they ever...?" quality DC has given Batman and Catwoman.
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