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Spuffy in Season 9 (2)

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  • MikeB
    replied
    All said regarding writers, producers, actors, directors, viewers, readers, etc. are what I remember, my opinions, etc.




    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0g5vQsSiF8


    This is especially for those who haven't seen BtVS S6 dailies. I still want the "Out of My Mind" (B 5.04) dailies. I'd like ALL the BtVS dailies, but especially all Buffy/Spike dailies.

    Leave a comment:


  • Morphia
    replied
    Originally posted by Xane View Post
    Even if Angel and Faith were the better comic than Buffy, I am still going to care more about Buffy I guess.
    Me too. AtS is great and all, but BtVS is a better show by far. And I know that the A&F comic gets lots of praise, but it doesn't, IMO, stand up to a re-read. Really, it's not that much better than the Buffy comic.

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  • shipperx
    replied
    Season 1 AtS doesn't do much for me. (Though I cheered when Wes arrived.)

    I really liked Seasons 2 & 3 though.

    Season 4 had... issues.

    And Season 5 did too, but it had Spike... so there's that.

    Originally Posted by shipperx
    I think we're supposed to pretend that we know nothing about what people post elsewhere (even though we obviously do know)...
    Originally posted by Morphia View Post
    Really? I'd edit my comment, but judging by the latest comment in the thread, it seems a bit redundant.
    Personally, I think it shows heroic restraint on your part not to re-post some of the OTT splooge that's been posted elsewhere simply to illustrate your point.

    Go you!
    Last edited by shipperx; 25-06-13, 07:54 PM.

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  • Xane
    replied
    I did actually re-read Buffy season 9 at one point (during the Guarded arc, I think). I found it less awful than I'd thought the first time. Not good, but less awful. A&F, on the other hand, when I tried to re-read that (which, as you say appears better on the surface and has better art) I found so dull I couldn't even get through the first arc
    It's interesting. I can watch Buffy over and over again. I watch snippets before I got to bed, and when I get dressed in the morning.

    But I have tried to do Angel re-watches, and I just struggle to get through them. I enjoy the first two seasons, then it starts to feel like a chore until Season 5.

    I never get tired of Buffy.

    Even if Angel and Faith were the better comic than Buffy, I am still going to care more about Buffy I guess.

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  • Morphia
    replied
    Originally posted by shipperx View Post
    I think we're supposed to pretend that we know nothing about what people post elsewhere (even though we obviously do know)...
    Really? I'd edit my comment, but judging by the latest comment in the thread, it seems a bit redundant.

    Originally posted by shipperx
    I just think they're displaying being out of ideas almost unilaterally across the board with virtually every character.
    True.

    Originally posted by shipperx
    They kinda went out of their way alienating a segment of fans last 'season' (starting with Allie's infamous SlayAlive brouhaha). I'm thinking they thought this was a bit of pandering acting as damage control. I HOPE they didn't think it was substantive because... it kind of wasn't.
    No, nothing will help with that. It's pretty clear that they're not keen on shippers in general, though. Allie may have a personal distaste for Spuffy, but I don't think he (or anyone else involved in the project, from Joss on down) has much time for 'shippers in general.

    Which is okay. You can't write for particular interest groups. But if you're going to go out of your way to alienate those groups, you need to make sure you have a strong product to keep the general interest. And they haven't.

    Originally posted by shipperx
    A&F at least has a cohesive plot and active protagonist. That has a way of making it appear as though things are happening and makes it easier to read. That said, analysing for five minutes makes its flaws obvious as well.
    Yes, it's so facile.

    I did actually re-read Buffy season 9 at one point (during the Guarded arc, I think). I found it less awful than I'd thought the first time. Not good, but less awful. A&F, on the other hand, when I tried to re-read that (which, as you say appears better on the surface and has better art) I found so dull I couldn't even get through the first arc.

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  • Goyt
    replied
    Originally posted by dorotea View Post
    As I said exactly. Listening on the wrong port at the wrong IP address. The robot plot was exclusively Joss, same as his interview with 'it will be rooted in the verse lore'. From which sentence it is a quick and logical step that the Buffy-bot version 2 is rooted in the verse's lore - i.e in the Buffy-bot version 1 origins. Which make the plot specifically designed by Joss to highlight Spuffy inS9. Add here all the promises 'worth waiting for' - ie moment at the pool and the 'you are my darkplace' and you got your Spuffy plot reasons and definitions in S9 laid on a plate with a blue edge. To provide Spike with an eye-opener and a new direction. ( Yes, I know I am that person, which does not, btw, make my constructions any less logical.)



    Blame it on SA's innocence more than his badwill towards 'particular segment of the fandom'. He could not have expected his honesty to translate into alienation so irrevocably. He even made a few attempts to explain himself ( "cannot give you what Joss does not think is right for the characters" - and it did not work. )



    It was a bit of pandering true, but also all that JW planned for this season. Don't blame the Dark Horse, if you need to blame somebody. Be honest and blame Joss.

    I didn't know you were sitting in on the writers meetings and planning sessions. You don't find it at all strange that your Spuffy ending theory (planned by Joss of cause) sounds like Bangel fanfic and wish thinking.

    The fact is your constant doom and gloom theories for Spike and Spuffy come from you and your bias rather than the text. What you fail to realize is that the writers don't have your shipper bias and overblown distaste for Spike and Spuffy.

    And you trying to imply that joss had anything to do with your proposed end of Spuffy. Something which you cannot know and for which there is no evidence is exactly why we don't lend any credence to you preaching the end of Spuffy.

    Cheer up you might get lucky and this could be the end of Spuffy. But then so might we, and twilight could be the end of Bangel.

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  • dorotea
    replied
    Originally posted by shipperx View Post

    A quixotic attempt at unscrewing a pooch?
    As I said exactly. Listening on the wrong port at the wrong IP address. The robot plot was exclusively Joss, same as his interview with 'it will be rooted in the verse lore'. From which sentence it is a quick and logical step that the Buffy-bot version 2 is rooted in the verse's lore - i.e in the Buffy-bot version 1 origins. Which make the plot specifically designed by Joss to highlight Spuffy inS9. Add here all the promises 'worth waiting for' - ie moment at the pool and the 'you are my darkplace' and you got your Spuffy plot reasons and definitions in S9 laid on a plate with a blue edge. To provide Spike with an eye-opener and a new direction. ( Yes, I know I am that person, which does not, btw, make my constructions any less logical.)

    They kinda went out of their way alienating a segment of fans last 'season' (starting with Allie's infamous SlayAlive brouhaha).
    Blame it on SA's innocence more than his badwill towards 'particular segment of the fandom'. He could not have expected his honesty to translate into alienation so irrevocably. He even made a few attempts to explain himself ( "cannot give you what Joss does not think is right for the characters" - and it did not work. )

    I'm thinking they thought this was a bit of pandering acting as damage control. I HOPE they didn't think it was substantive because... it kind of wasn't.
    It was a bit of pandering true, but also all that JW planned for this season. Don't blame the Dark Horse, if you need to blame somebody. Be honest and blame Joss.
    Last edited by dorotea; 25-06-13, 01:10 AM.

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  • shipperx
    replied
    Originally posted by Morphia View Post
    I've had the person in question on ignore for a long time. That disgusting personal attack they made on another poster on Buffyboards was the last straw. I never want, or need, to see what they have to say again.
    I think we're supposed to pretend that we know nothing about what people post elsewhere (even though we obviously do know)...

    However, the fact remains that Stoney is right in that Spike's story is going around in circles, with things being regressed that didn't need regressing.
    And we're back to the writers apparently having few ideas of what to do with the characters (MOST of the characters).

    Not that I'm disagreeing with you. I think they have just run a full 360 for no real reason.

    I just think they're displaying being out of ideas almost unilaterally across the board with virtually every character.

    I am still puzzled that they spent so much time on Spuffy early on if it wasn't leading somewhere later
    A quixotic attempt at unscrewing a pooch?

    They kinda went out of their way alienating a segment of fans last 'season' (starting with Allie's infamous SlayAlive brouhaha). I'm thinking they thought this was a bit of pandering acting as damage control. I HOPE they didn't think it was substantive because... it kind of wasn't.

    but the whole story in Buffy season 9 has been so directionless and badly written that it's just par for the course.
    This.

    I actually think that the same is true in Angel and Faith. Yes, Angel had a plan etc, but characterwise, he's just going around in circles too. It's really getting quite boring.
    A&F at least has a cohesive plot and active protagonist. That has a way of making it appear as though things are happening and makes it easier to read. That said, analysing for five minutes makes its flaws obvious as well.
    Last edited by shipperx; 24-06-13, 11:21 PM.

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  • DanSlayer
    replied
    I'm expecting imminently a panel where Nadira admits that her sister slayers who were killed by Nash and Pearl were all evil, rogue slayers who deserved to die anyway.

    Meanwhile, Angel the character learns nothing.

    I didn't like the mini. I thought it could have been done much better and that what Spike learned from it was muddy, hard to quantify, and, IMO, something he already knew. But I agree Spike had more development in it than Angel's had all series.
    If anything, Nadira will probably forgive Angel because he didn't personally kill any of the Slayers and he (as far as anyone knows) did not order Pearl and Nash to do that.

    I still think their is a real chance kid Giles might die. That may shake Angel out of his character loop.

    Leave a comment:


  • Morphia
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoney View Post
    Angel is on for repeating his mistakes, it would be good if at some point he got some realisation.
    I can't see how that'll happen if the story keeps proving him right. I suppose it all comes down to what happens in the final issues.

    That's what I find so boring, though. You can predict what's going to happen before it's even happened, because whatever it is, it'll justify Angel's actions somehow.

    I'm expecting imminently a panel where Nadira admits that her sister slayers who were killed by Nash and Pearl were all evil, rogue slayers who deserved to die anyway.

    Meanwhile, Angel the character learns nothing.

    I didn't like the mini. I thought it could have been done much better and that what Spike learned from it was muddy, hard to quantify, and, IMO, something he already knew. But I agree Spike had more development in it than Angel's had all series.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stoney
    replied
    I do like the Spike mini, I do think he got development there, I know many don't. But it was something to work on/with, not something actualised yet even. So they need to find him something to work on/battle with to go forward as well as applying the changes he has realised he wants. I think the Spuffy may well work fine once the overall picture is there but it won't surprise me if that includes S10 really as Buffy isn't ready to look at it yet and it takes two to develop it.

    Angel is on for repeating his mistakes, it would be good if at some point he got some realisation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Morphia
    replied
    Originally posted by TimeTravellingBunny View Post
    and 2) when it's a part of a hardcore Bangel-anti-Spike ridiculously biased interpretation of season 7, it doesn't really merit a rebuttal.
    I've had the person in question on ignore for a long time. That disgusting personal attack they made on another poster on Buffyboards was the last straw. I never want, or need, to see what they have to say again.

    However, the fact remains that Stoney is right in that Spike's story is going around in circles, with things being regressed that didn't need regressing. I am still puzzled that they spent so much time on Spuffy early on if it wasn't leading somewhere later, but the whole story in Buffy season 9 has been so directionless and badly written that it's just par for the course.

    I actually think that the same is true in Angel and Faith. Yes, Angel had a plan etc, but characterwise, he's just going around in circles too. It's really getting quite boring.

    Leave a comment:


  • TimeTravellingBunny
    replied
    I could say something about people blatantly misquoting, misinterpreting and completely taking out of context Buffy's line from End of Days, but I won't bother, since 1) this has already been discussed and explained and dealt with so many times before, and 2) when it's a part of a hardcore Bangel-anti-Spike ridiculously biased interpretation of season 7, it doesn't really merit a rebuttal.

    Leave a comment:


  • shipperx
    replied
    Oh and weren't you saying Spike is all about Buffy. This statement from Andrew Chambliss seems to be in opposition to that idea.

    "He specifically didn't run to Buffy's side in England when he heard what was happening. If he had -- even though he's no longer pining for her"

    dorotea wrong about Spike again what a shocker.
    To run back to Buffy he'd have to have pushed passed Angel's dash to the telephone to score points with her by saying that he'd 'fixed' his 'only' mistake in 8 (because Angel has been utterly unconcerned with everything else) by turning Giles into a tween (making quite clear that the reason Angel resurrected Giles --not Drogyn or Wesley or Cordy (the first of whom he also (and equally!) unfairly killed and the other two he was infinitely closer to than Giles)--was indeed about what might get him out of the dog house with her...
    Last edited by shipperx; 24-06-13, 11:11 PM.

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  • Goyt
    replied
    Originally posted by dorotea View Post
    I honestly thought that the whole point of S8 LG/S9 was exactly *dealing with the unfinished business Buffy and Spike had from Chosen/season 5 of AtS* ? Spike pining was him dealing with his side of it - Buffy not pining was her dealing with it - the way she chose to do it. Which was actually her way of dealing with *it* all the way through S7 until the Chosen ( 'Does it have to mean anything?')

    And it was indeed the new dynamics - definitely new for me as an audience who was dreading the return of half glances of S7 or, God forbid the 'I love you' confirmed. No, I think the Spuffy was dealt with, at the very least decisively, straightforwardly and with a hefty doze of sarcasm. And it is, perhaps, the only major thing I love about the comics.

    And honestly, I can't see any 'regression' in Spike, since I could not see any 'progression' in him Spuffy-wise since S7. He never looked at their situation honestly. In S9 he was finally forced to face the truth - even though it took the second built of Buffy-bot.

    News just in Bangel fan in thinking the rival Spuffy ship is over shocker.
    And yet when Angel spends a season of comics terrorising her culminating in him snapping her father figures neck, they are still a potential love match for you. I could say that was Buffy and Angel being dealt with definitively but that would be naive on my part and more like wish thinking (there's that word again)

    Oh and weren't you saying Spike is all about Buffy. This statement from Andrew Chambliss seems to be in opposition to that idea.

    "He specifically didn't run to Buffy's side in England when he heard what was happening. If he had -- even though he's no longer pining for her"

    dorotea wrong about Spike again what a shocker.

    Leave a comment:

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