Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Buffy Season 9 News Thread (2)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by dorotea View Post
    Yup, they are mercilessly teasing the TOYL connection without giving away any new hints. And it is all connected to Twilight. Which I always pointed out that it was - because the time-hole on the NY rooftop was caused by the Twilight 'ripples' through time and space.



    We already know from canon how to create a vampire from scratch - mix the blood of an Old One aka True Demon with that of a human. My guess is that's what Simone is trying to do - maybe the purple thing that jumps on B/W/X on cover 23 is Simone as uber-zompire?

    Then either the S&S simply lied to Xander - and the book has no new info on how to revert Twilight, or the book has both info on the 'mixing one's blood with Older One's' and the info on the particulars of Twilight the prophecy.



    It might, or it might not. And I want to once again point out that FDW might not be truly 'Dark', and may not be truly dying.
    And with that, I just realized a great way they could get "real" vampirism back without even having to undo the Seed thing. If the book has ritual information on how the vampire hybrid was created, they have an ample supply of Old Ones -- in the Deeper Well (now thoughtfully unguarded, too, thanks to someone, but I digress).

    Could be, for instance, that the reason we get zompires now is because the Old One that was the original malefactor was one that skipped out on this dimension, and the vampires we used to get were caused by a connection from that blood to the original host. It was the "router" in that dubious wifi analogy.

    Well, if they get an Old One from their own LAN, they don't need their ISP to be up and running. So you'd have vampires again, but all local grown (/shifts to produce metaphor). Maybe even with slightly different attributes. They could genuinely reset the entire vampire mythology and how they are sired and what can kill them and such. Wouldn't that be a hoot? Kinda like how the alien/xenomorph has different attributes depending on its reproducing host, if vampires have different attributes based on the Old One from which the corruption originates? Suddenly you've multiversed all vampire mythologies! Old One Fred gives you Blade vampires, Old One Merle gives you TVD vampires, Old One Fail gives you Twilight vampires?

    All rampant speculation, but the root feels plausible -- that Simone figures that she (or if she intends it to be, Xander) can be the new "prime" vampire if they have the book and an Old One? And then we'd still have our "magicless" (BWAHAHAHAHA) world but have solved the only two material changes, Willow's magic and zompires.

    Not sure how that would fit in with the time travel angle, though.
    sigpic
    Banner by LRae12

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by DorothyFan1 View Post
      As for why that Vampyr book is so important...someone speculated it's because it reveals the big secret on how to create a vampire from scratch.
      Or they could go over to Mystic Falls and dig up Klaus' and Elijah's mom.

      But, yeah, making vampires from scratch is a reasonable guess.

      Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
      If the book has ritual information on how the vampire hybrid was created, they have an ample supply of Old Ones -- in the Deeper Well (now thoughtfully unguarded, too, thanks to someone, but I digress).
      Can't imagine who would've done such a thing...

      It would explain the need to return to the Deeper Well. And the whole discussion makes me want to reread the book '13' which had a neat way with dealing with Old Ones.
      Last edited by shipperx; 12-04-13, 05:43 PM.
      Learning Experience: "...one of those things that says, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.”
      ~Douglas Adams

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
        And with that, I just realized a great way they could get "real" vampirism back without even having to undo the Seed thing. If the book has ritual information on how the vampire hybrid was created, they have an ample supply of Old Ones -- in the Deeper Well (now thoughtfully unguarded, too, thanks to someone, but I digress).
        I imagine the Well would not have stayed unguarded actually. IDW series ( which is none-canonical ) had some elderly lady demon squatting on it. And now it looks like the entire magical Council made a run for it , probably to squat around it too.

        (And being evil as I am I always thought that a 1000 old eternally young dude , whose only job was to guard the said Well in exchange for the benefits of eternal youth, and who had managed to let an Old One be smuggled out from under his nose - and then had a cheek to suggest to kill thousands by recalling it back sort of had it coming for him. Bad karma for doing a really sucky job of guarding and all. Ultimate Joss' redshirt. Probably would have been fired by the PtBs for giving W&H the well needed edge and get an innocent/s killed in the process.)

        Could be, for instance, that the reason we get zompires now is because the Old One that was the original malefactor was one that skipped out on this dimension, and the vampires we used to get were caused by a connection from that blood to the original host. It was the "router" in that dubious wifi analogy.
        A fun theory, but they already concocted their own - via 'remote possession'.
        Besides, the vampire demons are supposed to be different. Meaning every time somebody got sired a demon spirit is called from some infinite dimension to inhabit the body. If it was all the same Old One vampires would not be at the bottom of the demons hierarchy and so on. But a fun theory nonetheless.

        Not sure how that would fit in with the time travel angle, though.
        I believe nobody will time-travel but Severin, unless he can send a person back in time , not just shift himself. Illyria was doing both, so yeah, it is possible. The mechanics of what needs to be done to revert Twilight though still likely will be in the VAMPYR book.
        “Personally, I kind of want to slay the dragon” ranks as probably the best next-to-last line in TV history. (Granted, I’m not exactly sure what the competition is.) -- A.V. Club

        Comment


        • #49
          If the Vampyr book supposedly has this secret information about how to create a vampire from scratch *and* also how to undo the Twilight prophecy, (is this the correct analysis?) then why would Giles keep this information all to himself or better yet why couldn't he tell Buffy?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by DorothyFan1 View Post
            If the Vampyr book supposedly has this secret information about how to create a vampire from scratch *and* also how to undo the Twilight prophecy, (is this the correct analysis?) then why would Giles keep this information all to himself or better yet why couldn't he tell Buffy?

            Jeez, what would be the fun in writing a story that actually makes sense but has no mystery? The whole setup for Giles in S8 makes little sense. Same as Willow keeping her Snake-lady revelations to herself for entire season and beyond. Same as for Buffy to keep bank-robbing from both Willow and Giles - only to be later discovered as international commander-and-thief.

            The only rationale I can give to you about Giles covering up Twilight would be him being mortally afraid it was about 'his' Slayer and being intentionally blind to all the signs , so he could continue to pretend he does not have to do anything about it - such as try to kill Buffy , etc.
            “Personally, I kind of want to slay the dragon” ranks as probably the best next-to-last line in TV history. (Granted, I’m not exactly sure what the competition is.) -- A.V. Club

            Comment


            • #51
              I really don't understand why this forum has been down so long. I can understand why people are not posting in here. Anyway
              Spoiler:
              I've found out by going to the other forum Slayalive that a recently concluded live chat there says that the phrase "actions have consequences" is key for the last arc. Also they're saying there will be no crossover between the two titles. In the Angel and Faith comic, two characters will die, this according to the write-up in the Slayalive discussion thread after the conclusion of the live chat. They said in the Buffy comic people will die but don't say who does for obvious reasons.

              As for Dawn, the word is when asked about what would be most dramatic about what happens to her...word is its between deciding what would be more dramatic...memories of Dawn fading or physically disappearing. So its looking like the consequences for Buffy is about what happens to Dawn after destroying the Seed. Finally, they're being tight lipped about what's up for Season 10 as not even a clue about what's going on. As this is just my recollections from what I gleaned from Slayalive I can't vouch for accuracy so all I can say is I tried to be as accurate as possible.
              Last edited by DorothyFan1; 19-04-13, 02:31 PM.

              Comment


              • #52
                Probably should be spoilered DorothyFan.

                Spoiler:


                Had a quick glance, didn't notice the bit about Dawn fading.
                This is where they refer to the deaths.

                LHJ19 ‏@LHJ19 12h
                @Christosgage @AndrewChambliss This being Joss.Can we expect someone dying in the finales to the season?#buffyS9chat

                Christos Gage ‏@Christosgage 12h
                @LHJ19 @AndrewChambliss There will be a death. Or two. In the A&F Finale. #BuffyS9Chat

                Zac ‏@Mischlings 12h
                @Christosgage @LHJ19 @AndrewChambliss Now I'm scared, and possibly prepared to be furious. #BuffyS9Chat

                Andrew Chambliss ‏@AndrewChambliss 12h
                @Mischlings @Christosgage @LHJ19 Possibly the same in Buffy. There have to be consequences to character's actions #BuffyS9chat

                Other general tweets here (the ones above expand out from Christos' tweet 5 down).


                These were quoted on SA, although I can't see them all in the tweets I have accessed and I don't have time to scout around to verify them...
                @Jordan Holliday6: why were classic scoobies xander and dawn ignored for 18 issues practically?
                @JaneEspenson: why were xander and dawn ignored? Sometimes it's worth waiting for the room to tell the story right.
                @AndrewChambliss: Jane's right… their story packs the biggest blow by having it in the final arc

                @SnazzyO: Was Xander talking about almost killing Angel in S9 Issue 1 when he said “Dawn never needs to know.”
                @AndrewChambliss: Yep, Xander didn't want Dawn to know that he snapped

                @hann23 Was it planned that Dawn would be affected back when Buffy broke the seed?
                @JaneEspenson that was an idea that we came up with at the S9 Buffy writer's summit
                @AndrewChambliss: I think the idea first came from @DrewZachary
                @DrewZachary:It seemed like a rich way to explore human consequences of losing the seed
                @AndrewChambliss: it was a great idea that really brought the consequences of the seed's destruction home for Buffy
                that was always the plan. Look back at S9 #1 and you'll see Xander and Buffy refer to it

                @hann23 : I really glad to have Xander's flashback to Giles's death. Was that also planned, or did you write it?
                @AndrewChambliss: that was always the plan. Look back at S9 #1 and you'll see Xander and Buffy refer to it
                Last edited by Stoney; 19-04-13, 02:18 PM.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Well, Season 9 reference makes it sound like they've come round to complete the work meant for "Dirty Girls". Bugger. I'll be facing the dilemma I now face with "Vampire Diaries" if that happens.

                  In terms of AnF, "actions have consequences" is a harder thing to reconcile in terms of obvious predictions, because it's not like the character to whom that expression would most obviously apply, would ever be Killed Off For Real. I like the aunts, hope they come through. Probably Alastair and Whistler (/spit and let us never speak of him again).
                  sigpic
                  Banner by LRae12

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    What do you mean about Dirty Girls?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                      What do you mean about Dirty Girls?
                      That was the episode in which Joss had meant to end Xander, but for his own staff begging him off it. If "actions have consequences" as a tease for Season 9 character deaths put anyone in danger, who more than he?
                      sigpic
                      Banner by LRae12

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        SueB and Bunnyhearts at Slayalive has been transcribing the twitter Q/A with the season 9 writers grouped by topics.It's not a full transcript but hits many of the major things

                        http://slayalive.com/showthread.php/...-Nexus/page102

                        Here's a brief bulletpoint summary from her at same link.

                        Spoiler:
                        BIG Things I remember. Will UPDATE THIS LIST after I compile the rest (it's going to take a while):

                        - S9 will end on a cliffhanger for both series. There will be NO crossover but there is a "subtly unified" ending at the same time.
                        - S10 summit happened a month ago. Buffy is confirmed (but not announced yet). No confirmation (or denial) on the A&F front.
                        - 2 characters will die on A&F, characters will die in BtVS "Actions have consequences". SueB Comment: Could be the villains so I'm not panicking.
                        - That Xander has PTSD is "on the right track"
                        - A non-answer to the significance of the Alice in Wonderland answers
                        - One word to describe the NEXT A&F issue: "Resurrection" (***ETA: Gage won't commit on whether or not it works***)
                        - MASSIVE action sequence in The Deeper Well
                        - Is Dawn fading in their memories or just the picture? Jane E. answer: whichever is the most dramatic.

                        Compiling now, update later.
                        UPDATE #1: We will find out the fate of Giles in A&F #21 & #22 (also #22 is Christos' favorite).
                        UPDATE #2: Whatever Buffy read about when she was in the future and was "too ridiculous" is still up for grabs in S10.
                        UPDATE #3: From Christos Gage:

                        @Mr_brooks007: so could it be that "the biggest betrayal" which was mentioned all the way back in S8 is Xander?
                        @Christosgage: No the biggest betrayal in S8 was Buffy betraying herself. I believe Joss said so. UPDATE #4: The "Dawn never needs to know" secret was that Xander "snapped" and almost killed Angel.

                        Status as of 11:11pm EDT: I've posted the "big news" for S10. Hit the link to see the pic. Bunny Hearts has a second very long string she'll post. I'll come back with the rest tomorrow.


                        transcript grouped by subject

                        Spoiler:
                        First topic: S10 Summit Comments

                        @Christosgage: So about a month ago this happened pic.twitter.com/Ykw6GYdFom

                        @hann23 : shiny! Where was that?
                        þ@Christosgage: That was in Los Angeles at an undisclosed location
                        @JaneEspenson: Even with his huge success in features, Joss was so eager to dive into talk about the books. Inspiring.

                        @Paul Tobin: Why weren't you letting @ScottAllie wear shoes? Is it because he always runs away if you don't take them?
                        @Christosgage:The thing is @ScottAllie always has such awesome shoes I mug him for them

                        @JohnMusiM: Will Angel & Faith continue in season 10?
                        þ @Christosgage: Ask @ScottAllie

                        @LHJ19: You teased some news the other day that Scott Allie said you could spill?Can you spill it now?
                        @Christosgage: That pic I tweeted was the official Buffyverse Comics Season 10 Summit. Hey is that @NicholasBrendon ?
                        @Christosgage: I was referring to the fact that we had the Season 10 summit! Now it can be revealed!
                        @JaneEspenson: And that is @NicholasBrendon, who joined us!
                        @Christosgage: So cool to see the love Joss & @NicholasBrendon still have for each other. Manly love.
                        @VictorGischler: A lot of good stuff that day. I'm in awe of everyone's creativity

                        @Willowy04: Been a Buffy fan since 97, don't know those last three folks on the right. Helpy?
                        @Christosgage: That's @VictorGischler far right, then me, then my wife Ruth there for an outsider's (and accomplished writer's) POV
                        @VictorGischler: I'm the one that looks like I live on beer and chicken wings. *burp*

                        @jmdepaolis Will Angel and Faith continue in S10 or are both those characters rejoining the main Buffy title?
                        @Christosgage: I don't think I can say. There will be a S10 Buffy book. Past that S10 info must be revealed by a drunk @ScottAllie

                        @kostaszomgas : Was wondering, with all this big talented team how do you decide on a single storyline?
                        @JaneEspenson: Joss was there.
                        @AndrewChambliss: With Joss, the best idea always wins in the room, no matter who it comes from

                        þ@Christosgage: Highlight of the Season 10 summit may just have been @JaneEspenson 's impression of SNL's Stefon.
                        @JaneEspenson: Which is pretty much my impression of @GoCheeksGo's impression of Stefon.
                        @Christosgage: Now I gotta come to another one of your #Husbands signings and request that
                        @JaneEspenson: Oh! Please do! Our next stop: C2E2, then Seattle on April 30
                        **@DrewZachary (Drew Greenberg): Dr. Pepper.
                        @VictorGischler: The Highlight for me was being in awe of all the talent and Buffy-caring pros.
                        @DrewZachary (Drew Greenberg): I liked the goat cheese. Also the people.
                        @Christosgage: THERE WAS GOAT CHEESE? Worst summit ever, I didn't get any.
                        @DrewZachary (Drew Greenberg): Well, yeah. 'Cause I ate it all.
                        @JaneEspenson: There was a lot of cheese and grapes. I loved that.
                        @VictorGischler: I wouldn't know. I was the new guy and had to sit in the closet.
                        @Christosgage: Come out of the closet, Victor. Rainbow. Pride.
                        @VictorGischler: It was more of a "shut up, rookie" closet. Why did you all kick me so much?
                        @JaneEspenson: "Rainbow....power."
                        @Christosgage: No 4 real the summit was magic. Better than the S9 one which was magic too.
                        @VictorGischler: I agree that it was pretty awesome. So many smart people
                        **I believe this was in part of this thread, not positive.


                        Re-arranged a few of the conversation threads to go with the question they're responding to.

                        BunnyHearts1: For those of you who do it, how difficult is it to shift from TV writing to comics writing?
                        Christos Gage: For me not much. Some TV writers get too talky in comics. Breaking up into actions panels takes practice.
                        AndrewChambliss: You have to do a lot more work on the page for comics. You don't have a director, actor, etc making decisions.
                        Drew Z Greenberg: I found my first exhausting. Writing, directing, cinematography-ing, acting... but you get used to it &it eases up.
                        Jane Espenson: I have to trim back my dialogue like crazy when I write comics. Feels like having my tongue tied behind my back.
                        Drew Z Greenberg: I think Scott Allie can attest I have, on occasion, flirted with talkiness.
                        Jane Espenson: Writing comics is soooo much harder. More like directing.

                        Ann: So the writers are the ones who decide what dialogue goes in which panel? I always figured there was some panel guru.
                        Christos Gage: Usually writers decide what panel dialogue goes in so artist draws proper body language. It can change.
                        Jane Espenson: The writer says what line goes where, but the artist can call foul, ask to move it.

                        Harvey Jacobs: (to Chambliss) Would you want to write Buffy in season 10 or a different book next season?
                        Andrew Chambliss: Not sure who's going to end up writing what... I'm just excited to be anywhere in the Buffyverse!

                        Arielle del Calzada: (to Gage) More on those darn g-aunts, how did u come up with the names? Nvr heard of them. Name book right lol
                        Christos Gage: Joss came up with their names! Lavinia and Sophronia. Not sure where he got them but I love 'em.
                        Arielle del Calzada: guhhh leave it to joss to come up with the most gorgeous names to use

                        LHJ19: (to Espenson) When Buffy and Angel finally interact again. Would you want to write that scene?
                        Jane Espenson: Hm. I would love to try, but I actually never wrote that much Angel. Others are more qualified.


                        These focus on S9 of the specific BtVS comic (from the first 30 minutes of the tweet):


                        @Jordan Holliday6: why were classic scoobies xander and dawn ignored for 18 issues practically?
                        @JaneEspenson: why were xander and dawn ignored? Sometimes it's worth waiting for the room to tell the story right.
                        @AndrewChambliss: Jane's right… their story packs the biggest blow by having it in the final arc

                        @SnazzyO: Was Xander talking about almost killing Angel in S9 Issue 1 when he said “Dawn never needs to know.”
                        @AndrewChambliss: Yep, Xander didn't want Dawn to know that he snapped

                        @hann23 Was it planned that Dawn would be affected back when Buffy broke the seed?
                        @JaneEspenson that was an idea that we came up with at the S9 Buffy writer's summit
                        @AndrewChambliss: I think the idea first came from @DrewZachary
                        @DrewZachary:It seemed like a rich way to explore human consequences of losing the seed
                        @AndrewChambliss: it was a great idea that really brought the consequences of the seed's destruction home for Buffy
                        that was always the plan. Look back at S9 #1 and you'll see Xander and Buffy refer to it

                        @hann23 : I really glad to have Xander's flashback to Giles's death. Was that also planned, or did you write it?
                        @AndrewChambliss: that was always the plan. Look back at S9 #1 and you'll see Xander and Buffy refer to it


                        We also got this tidbit:

                        @annstarrr: How much input do the TV show actors have into their character's comic plot?
                        @JaneEspensonLittle or none. A sweeping story tends to need to be guided from above with Joss-like vision to have coherency.


                        ANGEL & FAITH (from first 30 min):

                        @smmilitello: why were Angel & Faith choosen to team up? any other team ups you would like to see in the buffyverse?
                        @Christosgage: Joss thought Angel & Faith should team up. Good enough for me! I want a Harmony/Lavinia/Sophronia book

                        No actual question found but good “answer”:
                        @Christosgage: No the last A&F arc is mostly bringing all the story threads together. No new cameos.

                        @LHJ19: Can you give a one word tease for the next issue?
                        @Christosgage: Is that issue 21? One word tease: Resurrection. Too bad you didn't give me 2 words, I could've said if it works.

                        @SnazzyO: Fun use of the Vopol blade in A&F. Alice in Wonderland references more than once. Easter Eggs or a theme?
                        @Christosgage: I figured a regular old blade couldn't kill Eyghon so easily so, Vorpal.

                        @Aoftheavenue on a scale of 1-10 how was ur Brit accent when writing the great aunts?
                        @Christosgage: LOL ask a Brit. I apologize to all Brits & the Queen for mangling British accents.

                        @SnazzyO: Did either BtVS or AtS ever have an archmage as a character before?I’m not sure what Vail was.
                        @Christosgage: I'm honestly not sure what specifically an Archmage is, I just liked the way it sounded.
                        @JaneEspenson: One of the writers in the #OUAT room had never heard of a mage! Can you believe it?
                        @SnazzyOid you school them? Please. It's essential genre knowledge.
                        @Christosgage: Y'all gotta have a D&D session (intervention?) in that room ASAP
                        @SnazzyO: Exactly.
                        @JaneEspenson: Oh yes.

                        @Mischlings: Was it intentional that Lavinia resemble Faith, or am I just crazy? It's gotten me confused in a few scenes...
                        @Christosgage: The Aunts were loosely modeled on Anthony S. Head's daughters who were to play them in the Ripper TV show
                        @Mischlings: In other words, coincidence and I'm getting confused for no reason. Not the first time that's happened.

                        @Aoftheavenue: and more on those darn g-aunts, how did u come up with their names? Nvr heard of them. Name book right lol
                        @Christogage: Joss came up with their names! Lavinia and Sophronia. Not sure where he got them but I love 'em.
                        @Aoftheavenue: guhhh leave it to joss to come up with the most gorgeous names to use


                        BTVS S10 Extrabits:

                        @ShinyAlex: Season 8 was very epic and 9 has been more intimate. Will season 10 continue in that vein?
                        @AndrewChambliss: The goal is to tell stories about characters so I'd say intimate. But it is Buffy so everything's always epic WILLOW


                        WONDERLAND:

                        @BunnyHearts1: Question for @jeffparker In Willow #4 in the one page group shot toward the beginning, who is the brunette in the back row?
                        @Christosgage: Was it Dawn? Or Kennedy?


                        SPIKE MINI-SERIES

                        @buffyfest Our hearts mourn for Sebastian. Please say he will be resurrected as the big bad this season?
                        @VictorGishler:Not sure that's in the cards. But I grew to luv the bugs while writing Spike. A nice surprise.
                        @VictorGishler: But if I made people "feel" for Sebastian, then I'm grateful to have done my job.
                        @JaneEspenson: I loved the bugs as well! They make me laugh.
                        @buffyfest : We grew to love the bugs too!! Who knew?
                        @VictorGishler: Thanks! I owe you eleven dollars for saying that.
                        Last edited by BAF; 19-04-13, 02:51 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                          That was the episode in which Joss had meant to end Xander, but for his own staff begging him off it. If "actions have consequences" as a tease for Season 9 character deaths put anyone in danger, who more than he?
                          That's the episode where Caleb gouges out Xander's eye. As for Xander being the one...this may be misdirection.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Ach any deathly consequences can always be the bad guys. It is starting to get interesting again though as it all gears up a notch.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              So, about the 9.01 "Dawn doesn't need to know" secret...
                              Spoiler:
                              why the hell would Dawn even care if Xander had almost killed Angel? Would she have been disappointed he didn't finish? She has never even met him in the real and actual, after all -- I know she probably has countless memories of it, but I also assume that she surely differentiates her experiences and their weight at least somewhat, even if they probably don't have any precise way in their subjective memory to pinpoint exactly when her memories become "real" or not other than it being sometime before Glory showed up.

                              I'm honestly... wow, I have no idea what to do with the idea that Dawn would have given a damn if Xander even had succeeded in killing Angel.
                              sigpic
                              Banner by LRae12

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by KingofCretins View Post
                                So, about the 9.01 "Dawn doesn't need to know" secret...
                                Spoiler:
                                why the hell would Dawn even care if Xander had almost killed Angel? Would she have been disappointed he didn't finish? She has never even met him in the real and actual, after all -- I know she probably has countless memories of it, but I also assume that she surely differentiates her experiences and their weight at least somewhat, even if they probably don't have any precise way in their subjective memory to pinpoint exactly when her memories become "real" or not other than it being sometime before Glory showed up.

                                I'm honestly... wow, I have no idea what to do with the idea that Dawn would have given a damn if Xander even had succeeded in killing Angel.
                                Perhaps it's more about Xander losing himself in a fit of anger, which he will do plenty of times in S9 rather than his attempt to kill Angel.
                                Made by Trickyboxes
                                Halfrek gives Spike the curse that will change his entire life. Teenage Dirtbag

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X