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Buffy # 20 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

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  • Buffy # 20 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

    Leyki's review of Buffy S9 # 20 is up.Spoilers

    http://leykimayri.wordpress.com/2013...0-the-watcher/
    Last edited by BAF; 10-04-13, 01:21 AM.

  • #2
    I'm glad we hear more about Severin and Simone's plan. My guess is that Simone wants to become an original flavour vampire, not a mindless zompire. And Severin can help her somehow, if he can drain a vampire of its demon maybe he can put the demon back into a zomp. I hope we learn why Severin time travelling is a bad thing. I'm glad Xander is getting a storyline and I'm glad he's sympathetic and not just being written as a jerk just because he's against Buffy.

    I was surprised that I actually like Leyki's review here. Previously I've always been taken aback with how unprofessional her reviews normally are, but this one was good.

    I wonder what Illyria is up to? I hope she appears again before the end of the season, it will be a bit weird for her to show up like she did and do basically nothing except get her powers drained, then disappear.

    The issue is released tonight?

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    • #3
      I would be very surprised if it is released tonight. On another note I''m noticing Dark Horse has been very careful about releasing its issues now to avoid being burned by bad press and poor reviews. Leyki's wording about Xander was very surprising so I'm looking forward to seeing this.

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      • #4
        It is looking more likely to me that Xander won't make it out of this season alive. I could be wrong, but it would fit with what they seem to be setting up here.

        I am excited to see that his arc isn't petering out here and that presumably he will have a large role to play in the climax of the season.
        Last edited by PointMan; 10-04-13, 04:21 AM.
        “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.” -- Albert Einstein

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        • #5
          Mayhap so, mayhap not. My only hopes for Xander are pretty much the same as Samuel L Jackson's hopes for Mace Windu in order to agree to the movies -- that he get a purple lightsaber, and that he doesn't die like some punk. I hope they respect this character more than to give him the Harold Lauder ending (for the King fans).

          My more specific need here is that if he is making a deal that is basically intended to trade Buffy's life for Dawn's, so be it. But please, please don't make it some truly boneheaded "DERP how can you not see the 80 obvious reasons why this won't work and haven't exhausted even one plausible alternative first?" situation. Again, character, respect.

          Leyki cites similarity to what Angel agrees to do in Season 8. Either that's "betray Buffy" in general or, more interestingly/specifically, to "break" her, maybe emotionally soften her up for Severin/Simone? I'm starting to take this entire plotline as a shout-out -- "damn, KingofCretins' theory about why Xander could be Twilight is way better than this Angel idea with space sex and anthropomorphic universes... let's do it next season!"
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          • #6
            Originally posted by DorothyFan1 View Post
            I would be very surprised if it is released tonight. On another note I''m noticing Dark Horse has been very careful about releasing its issues now to avoid being burned by bad press and poor reviews. Leyki's wording about Xander was very surprising so I'm looking forward to seeing this.
            I don't think it's so much that Dark Horse is being burned by bad press and poor reviews, I think Dark Horse is being more selective with who they give advanced copies to because in the past some reviewers clearly had no idea what they were talking about. Remember that dumb review where that one girl thought that Faith and Kennedy were maybe the same person? Also, as they approach the end of the season, the plot will possibly full of excitement that they don't want to spoil before the issue is released -and some reviewers in the past have given away spoilers in their reviews.

            Anyone know when this is supposed to be released? I'm too lazy to check.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
              I don't think it's so much that Dark Horse is being burned by bad press and poor reviews, I think Dark Horse is being more selective with who they give advanced copies to because in the past some reviewers clearly had no idea what they were talking about. Remember that dumb review where that one girl thought that Faith and Kennedy were maybe the same person? Also, as they approach the end of the season, the plot will possibly full of excitement that they don't want to spoil before the issue is released -and some reviewers in the past have given away spoilers in their reviews.

              Anyone know when this is supposed to be released? I'm too lazy to check.
              It should be released today.I think digital it should be out at 3am eastern.So less than three hours now.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by BAF View Post
                It should be released today.I think digital it should be out at 3am eastern.So less than three hours now.
                On the iPad? At 3:00 am Eastern standard time? I have never been able to get it at that hour. Never.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BAF View Post
                  It should be released today.I think digital it should be out at 3am eastern.So less than three hours now.
                  I've always had problems getting the Buffy title for digital purchase using the iPad. Maybe the recent update for the Dark Horse app for iOS fixes this issue? I don't know.

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                  • #10
                    I don't do comics digital.I just don't enjoy reading them in that format.So won't have my copy until my comic shop opens.

                    But based on when I usually see people having read it via digital,that tends to be after 3am.

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                    • #11
                      I've never had trouble getting them on my computer at that hour from the Dark Horse digital store. Looking forward to this one.

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                      • #12
                        Just finished reading the issue. This one and 19 are the first issues I actually felt were worth buying and I'm glad to see I wasn't wrong. They don't really spell out whats up with Xander but it seems like it could be some form of PTSD. I'm intrigued with what they seem to be setting up for him, I just hope it doesn't end with him being betrayed or ultimately betraying Buffy And I really, really hope that he and Buffy are still friends after this.
                        “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.” -- Albert Einstein

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                        • #13
                          It is a pretty solid issue.

                          Xander's frustration had me revisiting his scene with Dawn in Potentials.

                          Transcript spoilered for space
                          Spoiler:
                          DAWN
                          (looking over her shoulder, to Xander) What's up?
                          XANDER
                          (walks into the room) Aw, I'm just thinking about the girls. It's a harsh gig, being a potential. Just being picked out of a crowd, danger, destiny, (grins) plus if you act now, death.
                          DAWN
                          They can handle it.
                          XANDER
                          Yeah. (sits in a chair in front of the desk) They're special, no doubt. The amazing thing is, not one of them will ever know, not even Buffy.
                          DAWN
                          Know what?
                          XANDER
                          How much harder it is for the rest of us.
                          DAWN
                          No way. They've got—
                          XANDER
                          Seven years, Dawn. Working with the slayer. Seeing my friends get more and more powerful. A witch. A demon. Hell, I could fit Oz in my shaving kit, but come a full moon, he had a wolfy mojo not to be messed with. Powerful. All of them. And I'm the guy who fixes the windows.
                          DAWN
                          Well, you had that sexy army training for a while, and—and the windows really did need fixing.
                          XANDER
                          I saw what you did last night.
                          DAWN
                          Yeah, I— (shakes her head embarrassed) I guess I kinda lost my head when I thought I was the slayer.
                          XANDER
                          You thought you were all special. Miss Sunnydale 2003. And the minute you found out you weren't, you handed the crown to Amanda without a moment's pause. You gave her your power.
                          DAWN
                          (shrugs) The power wasn't mine.
                          XANDER
                          They'll never know how tough it is, Dawnie, to be the one who isn't chosen. To live so near to the spotlight and never step in it. But I know. I see more than anybody realizes because nobody's watching me. I saw you last night. I see you working here today. You're not special. You're extraordinary. (stands, kisses her forehead, stands to walk out of the room)
                          DAWN
                          (tears welling in her eyes, calls after him) Maybe that's your power.
                          XANDER
                          (pauses at the door) What?
                          DAWN
                          Seeing. Knowing.
                          XANDER
                          Maybe it is. Maybe I should get a cape.
                          DAWN
                          Cape is good.
                          XANDER
                          Yeah. (leaves the room)
                          Dawn gathers herself together, never letting a tear drop. She breathes deeply, then goes back to work on the books at her desk.

                          I liked how well this new storyline for Xander works with that. Sure he seemed accepting of his team role then but it's realistic it is going to be frustrating and that it could build up more and more and push a reaction. That he turned on Angel in the seed chamber was also realistic and it was nice to see some play out from the moment of the seed breaking. Buffy stopping him because it wasn't 'him' didn't work for me though. She would only have lost Xander there because of her own feelings and reaction to him staking Angel I think personally, not through anything Xander would have felt from having done that. I am not as in touch with Xander's character as some others but I can't see him having had a personal adverse reaction here if he had succeeded.

                          It was no surprise that it was Severin/Simone that napped Xander. It was intriguing that they want the Vampyr book but nonsensical that they need Xander to get it. They can just break into Buffy's apartment and steal it and surely that would have been the first thing to try. But anyway, I am interested in this as being labelled such a significant and powerful source, particularly as it was 'all' that Giles left Buffy.

                          Willow's walk in was nice, I liked her return in this and Buffy's reaction felt real.

                          I was very amused by Xander saying he didn't care what Andrew did (ostensibly about repeating him) and Andrew repeated that he didn't care. That Andrew would choose to carry on without pause was a perfect bit of scripting there for me and I haven't felt that often in S9 so as irrelevant as it was I wanted to tip my hat.

                          A line that soon follows from Buffy bothered me though...
                          "Andrew, tell Xander that just because he doesn't have the answer doesn't mean I don't need him. He may think this is my fault. And maybe it is. But if I don't fix it-- because he doesn't have my back-- he's just as much to blame."
                          I can see that she is distinguishing the origins of the problem being what has Xander distant from her with the current issue and getting on with it. But she is then still apportioning blame to his actions if he continues with this shaming tactic here and I personally find it pretty foul in the circumstances. Their joint emotional investment should be a positive motivator and there is no attempt to link here with it. Sure it is because they are pushing him as watching and wanting this separation from Buffy with the Simone/Severin to come being about him feeling he can do something and if he had connected with Buffy here then he wouldn't have been susceptible to that. It plays into his insecurity about just watching and not doing something but I have issue with Buffy saying it, I don't think that played true, not for me anyway, not like this.

                          I don't really have anything else to add. We have also lost some of the preview pages here as Buffy and Xander don't have their conversation on the roof. Oh, and the art was horrifically ugly.
                          Last edited by Stoney; 10-04-13, 07:53 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Just read it. This issue was absolutely badass. I'm loving that they are giving Severin and Simone a bit of depth. I hope they explain why going back in time to change stuff will tear the universe apart. We've seen Illyria do it, we've seen the PTB and W&H do it. I wonder if it will get explained to Severin or his girlfriend that becoming a vampire is a bad thing. Why is Severin's body able to contain all that power when Fred's couldn't?

                            Interesting that Severin says that he's not a bad guy and that he doesn't want to kill Buffy. Wasn't he trying to kill her when he was first introduced? Or was he just trying to drain her power and leave her alive? I don't quite remember if it was established that he was going to kill her.

                            It's great that Xander is getting some screentime and that he's finally had enough of feeling useless, this feels like natural character progression for him after all this time and all the loved ones he's seen die.

                            Pretty badass that he was beating on Angel and ready to stake him. Although I can think of one person who will miss the point of the emotion behind that scene and focus solely on what this means for Angel's stats....

                            I wonder what's in the Vampyr book. I'm really glad that they are exploring the book.

                            Willow's back. I like that her power is limited. I hope they keep it that way.

                            Buffy was supposed to have a scar from Eldre Koh's blade? Can't say I've really noticed it in previous issues.

                            I liked that Andrew is trying reassure Buffy and she's still pretty open with how untrustworthy she finds him.

                            I wonder if Billy and Dowling will get anything useful to do before the season is over.

                            It was great seeing pretty much all the scoobies get cool moments in this issue.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                              Buffy stopping him because it wasn't 'him' didn't work for me though. She would only have lost Xander there because of her own feelings and reaction to him staking Angel I think personally, not through anything Xander would have felt from having done that.
                              For me it's a call back to their conversation in Graduation Day Part 1 as Buffy sets out to kill Faith:

                              BUFFY: Someone should take over for Giles after a while. Watch Angel.

                              XANDER: I don't mean to play devil's advocate here, but are you sure you're up to this?

                              BUFFY: It's time.

                              XANDER: We're talking to the death.

                              BUFFY: I can't play kid games anymore. This is how she wants it.

                              XANDER: I just don't want to lose you.

                              BUFFY: I won't get hurt.

                              XANDER: That's not what I mean.
                              It comes up again in the context of Willow killing Warren. Having nearly been there (in her case luckily Faith survived) Buffy knows that killing someone other than in self defence and especially when vengeance or personal satisfaction is the motive changes people and not for the better. It's something you can't take back.


                              A line that soon follows from Buffy bothered me though...

                              "Andrew, tell Xander that just because he doesn't have the answer doesn't mean I don't need him. He may think this is my fault. And maybe it is. But if I don't fix it-- because he doesn't have my back-- he's just as much to blame."

                              I can see that she is distinguishing the originations of the problem being what has Xander distant from her with the current issue and getting on with it. But she is then still apportioning blame to his actions if he continues with this shaming tactic here and I personally find it pretty foul in the circumstances. Their joint emotional investment should be a positive motivator and there is no attempt to link here with it. Sure it is because they are pushing him as watching and wanting this separation from Buffy with the Simone/Severin to come being about him feeling he can do something and if he had connected with Buffy here then he wouldn't have been susceptible to that. It plays into his insecurity about just watching and not doing something but I have issue with Buffy saying it, I don't think that played true, not for me anyway, not like this.
                              It's not her best self but it's human. Xander's been acting as if he's the only person with a personal investment in Dawn's fate but he's been her boyfriend for maybe a year. Buffy's been her sister from the beginning. Buffy's the one who actually died for for her. It's good of her not to play that card in their arguments. She could have done, the way she had to point out to him that she killed Angel in Selfless, but I can see how Xander's setting himself up as the only one who really cares about Dawn would evoke complicated and messy feelings and this is one way they come out.
                              Last edited by hayes62; 10-04-13, 09:45 AM.

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