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Buffy S11:Giles # 2 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

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  • #31
    I know I'm in the minority but to me Giles sounds exactly like himself, just as a 50 year old Giles would sound and I can actually hear ASH's voice in my head when reading the words.
    I agree. It's not the language I'm have problems with, it's following the plot.

    As is Giles literally throwing a wrench into the dumb-bomb
    . There's a literalisation of metaphor going on. So - depressed girl - is literally clothed in blue (blue BTW is a colour associated with the mother). In fact, I wonder whether we're meant to read this as we were meant to read A11: not as "real" but as "surreal"? There's definitely a language game going on. Whedon has played with language (Buffy's puns/suffixing etc) from S1 but it takes a much more serious turn from 5 onward. In S6 language creates a totalising reality - in S7 it's shown to be inadequate.

    It’s an origins story – birth and resurrection. I don’t know at this stage whether it’s related to S11 or Fray. There’s an eclipse in Giles and Fray – no mention of an eclipse in S11. The bridge is St. Thomas Bridge, San Pedro. At first, I thought it was referencing the apostles (Thomas and Peter – so evoking doubt and betrayal respectively). It could be but it’s the wrong St Peter and the bridge is misnamed. It’s actually the Vincent Thomas Bridge. De Niro mistakenly refers to it as the "Vincent St. Thomas Bridge" in the 1995 film" Heat. It’s appeared in a number of films, including Friedkin’s "To Live and Die in L.A." I think there are film and song references that go beyond the mixtapes. I guessed "Who let the dogs out" before Giles said it!

    Truman in #1 - is this a reference to the film or just a play on words? Wiki says this of the film. “[A] prototypical adolescent at the beginning of the movie. He feels trapped into a familial and social world to which he tries to conform while being unable to entirely identify with it, believing that he has no other choice (other than through the fantasy of fleeing to a far-way island). Eventually, Truman gains sufficient awareness of his condition to "leave home"—developing a more mature and authentic identity as a man, leaving his child-self behind and becoming a True-man”. Truman – we recall is killed by the demon.

    I don't really have any idea what it's about, except maybe the Trump administration, or about identity . . . and the not knowing makes me look forward to #3"
    Think it's both. Mixtape: We the People...." by A Tribe Called Quest. Gil Kaufman of Billboard praised the song, noting that it "instantly became the national anthem of the anti-Trump nation."

    In fact, I quite like the mixtape cues. Figure 8 by Blossom Dearie “If you skate, you would be great / If you could make a figure 8 / That's a circle that turns 'round upon itself / Place it on its side and it's a symbol meaning Infinity”. The symbol on the door (which also appears in Fray) looks like two overlapping 8s with a circle behind. There were "infinity doors" in Revello Drive. Buffy still has a skater picture on the wall in S10.

    In #1 Giles says "Living life is Heaven's Hell [echoes of Buffy] and chasing demons is chasing one's own tale" I'm not sure whether the "tale" referred to is this tale or whether the tale is a vehicle for an earlier one.

    Mrs Vega tells him "When you can see yourself outside the mirror you will solve the riddle within" He sees himself in #2 as a demon. (Note: Vega = a large grassy plain or valley (SunnyDALE? Overlaps with Spike's trigger song - "in the valley below"). Mrs Vega's room is full of very phallic totems and fire symbols. For various reasons, I want to tie Mrs Vega (the teacher's aide) into S7.

    Principle Boake (why do we have the word "oak" in the middle of the word "be"/ Is it a cryptic clue - "is Wood"?.

    I'm confused - but interested! I'm relying on you and Betta to follow the plot. BTW, until I made this post, the comments here were much more impressive than the comments ""elsewhere"!
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    • #32
      I thought this was a nice review, and happy to say he liked it and thought it a great improvement on lissue #1



      - - - Updated - - -

      TriBel, like your review and how you tie things together. I haven't listened to the mixtape songs, but will try to this week, see if it gives us any more clues as to what's going on. I am enjoying the mystery of it all and all the unanswered questions.

      I think there is some surrealness going on here, because the language is so literal, and actually quite fun (that's something Preston mentions, that this issue is fun, and I think he's right) I love the thought of Boake = be oak = Wood = bringing it back around to season 7.

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      • #33
        I thought this was a nice review, and happy to say he liked it and thought it a great improvement on lissue #1
        Nope - not listening to Preston anymore.

        I haven't listened to the mixtape songs, but will try to this week
        I haven't listened to them - I just googled the lyrics. I presumed that was why they were there - to further enhance the meaning of the scene as any extradiegetic music would do. Actually, I quite like the overlap between the forms - bit ironic Whedon's looking to film just as comics have begun to develop a critical discourse specific to the medium. I wonder if it's paving the way for a reboot?
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        • #34
          Nope - not listening to Preston anymore.
          Feels like a grudge

          I wonder if it's paving the way for a reboot?
          At this point it really wouldn't surprise me. The fact that it's been all over the media that 'Fox have often discussed a reboot', which could have been a planted story to gage fan reaction, we're ending the comics, and Joss isn't doing much right now, but he's getting back into the verse with the Giles comic and S12.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Priceless View Post
            Feels like a grudge



            At this point it really wouldn't surprise me. The fact that it's been all over the media that 'Fox have often discussed a reboot', which could have been a planted story to gage fan reaction, we're ending the comics, and Joss isn't doing much right now, but he's getting back into the verse with the Giles comic and S12.
            The Fox think feels like "desperation of a drowning man"; Disney is taking over, and they suddenly are interested in remaking Buffy...
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            • #36
              Originally posted by Priceless View Post
              I like Roux and find her intriguing
              I don’t understand what’s intriguing about Roux at all, sorry. We are already at the halfway point in this mini, and we barely know a thing about her. I would hope issue #3 opens with an exposition dump on her backstory, but even if it does, the language used will make the whole thing incomprehensible. Know who I found more interesting than Roux? The Gorch Brothers. Or Claw Guy. Or Nostroyev. Or Dalton. Or even Archeus. I disagree with the notion that “muh shades of grey” instantly makes the story better or more adult, and I think the character of Roux kind of proves that.


              My speculation is that at the end of the story, Roux will be allowed to escape. Or if she’s killed, it will be a heroic sacrifice against the demon. The story will completely avoid having Giles straight-up kill her himself. This is the same guy who killed Ben, conspired to kill a souled-up Spike and even wanted to talk about the possibility of killing Dawn. In a lot of ways, I’m kinda glad the Buffyverse is ending. It has completely flip-flopped on whether it’s even ok to kill vampires, the basic premise of the show is a mockery at this point.

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              • #37
                I don’t understand what’s intriguing about Roux at all, sorry. We are already at the halfway point in this mini, and we barely know a thing about her. I would hope issue #3 opens with an exposition dump on her backstory, but even if it does, the language used will make the whole thing incomprehensible. Know who I found more interesting than Roux? The Gorch Brothers. Or Claw Guy. Or Nostroyev. Or Dalton. Or even Archeus. I disagree with the notion that “muh shades of grey” instantly makes the story better or more adult, and I think the character of Roux kind of proves that.
                Well it's horses for courses isn't it I find Roux interesting. She's 200 + years old and is in an American high school, possibly eating the students and watching over Blue Girl. What is her relationship to the Blue girl? Why is she here? I find that mystery really interesting. I like the way she and Giles are interacting, I like the flirting and I like the affect she's having on Giles. I'm also hoping to learn some of her backstory, which I hope will only make her more interesting to me. I like the fact that she's 'young' and black, I think that's important, and I like that the story is set in an inner city 'black' school, and the co-writer is also a black woman, I think that's very zeitgeisty and that appeals to me.

                I do understand why some might think it's Joss trying too hard, and perhaps it is, but I'm still enjoying it. I'm one of those people who just wants more Buffyverse, no matter in what form, I find it endlessly interesting. I also think if you have a franchise that's gone on for many years, change is a good thing and I appreciate the attempt to try and keep it fresh and relevant . . . even if it is coming to an end

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
                  My speculation is that at the end of the story, Roux will be allowed to escape. Or if she’s killed, it will be a heroic sacrifice against the demon. The story will completely avoid having Giles straight-up kill her himself. This is the same guy who killed Ben, conspired to kill a souled-up Spike and even wanted to talk about the possibility of killing Dawn.
                  Giles has been through a great transformation - his mind, right now, is like forming all over again, he has been living new experiences in the last few years, looking at them with new eyes. So, if he shows not to be able to kill Roux as easily as he killed Ben, or plotted against Spike, I can understand it. However, I much would like to see a call back to these older decisions/actions, how he feels about them now, exactly what has changed inside him.

                  But I very much doubt we'll have that.
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