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Buffy S11:Giles # 2 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

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  • Buffy S11:Giles # 2 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

    The issue is out tomorrow/

  • #2
    Wow, the demon roasts a dog, how gross and offensive, I didn't need to see that.
    My Tumblr: Dog is My Copilot

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    • #3
      It's still pretty scattered though not as much and they do seem to be trying to remind Giles that Roux is still a vamp.

      So if I'm following:

      Peach and dog-eater here was defeated by adult Giles many years back. Giles accidentally bled on it a bit, letting in survive. A few months back the massive rain opened a sinkhole giving demon a link to the school. Demon's pilot project here is to keep people docile and stupid and he has financial backers interested if it works. Demon has already infected most of the students and staff. Boarke here needed funding so she effectively sold the students education to a few mega-rich backers and while the adults get praise for it, the library and such is emptied out and nobody learns any real content. Roux let the demon feed on Truman and Wong once they started asking too many questions. Giles literally threw a wrench in the demon's plan but it's only a brief setback. Roux tied him up to make sure they're still on the same side at the moment and is now about to tell him about herself and why she's attached to Girl Blue.
      Last edited by DanSlayer; 28-03-18, 11:11 PM.

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      • #4
        Halfway through and we still don't really know who Girl Blue is. Hopefully the next issue addresses this, and judging from the description, I'm assuming it will.

        I will say that I did enjoy this issue more than the last, and I think this is due to less of an emphasis on the high school setting. I'm excited to see where they go from here.

        Still not really sure how I feel about the mixtape thing.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by N0nexistent View Post

          I will say that I did enjoy this issue more than the last, and I think this is due to less of an emphasis on the high school setting. I'm excited to see where they go from here.
          Same, same. I really enjoyed this issue, and Roux is growing on me.
          My Tumblr: Dog is My Copilot

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          • #6
            This book is hands down the single worst entry in the Buffyverse canon. Angel season 11 has nothing on this.

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            • #7
              It's truly terrible. The dialogue and scene changes are so disjointed it feels like panels are missing. The scene with the principal was pure cringe and then the big bad just goes and dumps his whole plot right to Giles. And throwing a wrench into the pot thing? WTF? Who let the dogs out? My goodness.

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              • #8
                It feels like the author of this book has never (a) held a conversation with another person before or (b) witnessed two other people conversing.

                NOBODY TALKS LIKE THIS. If somebody came at me in real life with some of this dialoge, I’d ask them what the **** they were talking about. It seems like Joss has fallen into the misconception that if something is overly confusing and esoteric, then it must be “clever.”

                The mixtape continues to be a lame gimmick.

                There’s also no need for this to be set during season 11. There’s nothing connecting it whatsoever to the San Francisco disaster or the Safe Zone or the government or anything else that was important during season 11. For a spin-off set under the season 11 umberella, this is a big weakness. Every other spinoff has been firmly rooted in the current season. Spike: After the Fall was clearly a prequal to Angel: After the Fall, it tied into the overall themes and setting of the parent book and really couldn’t have taken place during any other time period. Same with the Willow and Spike minis set during season 9. They could be read and enjoyed on their own, but they were clearly set firmly in season 9. This Giles book (so far) could easily have taken place, say, after season 9, post-resurrection and before he met Buffy again. Or during season 10. Or after season 11, prior to 12. Or during his absence from Sunnydale in season 6 -only he’s an adult working at the school instead of being a student. Why exactly is this a season 11 book?

                Worse still, this book doesn’t even feel connected to BtVS as a whole. Giles here could easily be an original character in some other supernatural book. There’s nothing about his voice or role in the story that makes the protagonist explicitly Giles. The lack of a familiar supporting cast definetly hurts.

                For those who are fond of Roux, can I ask why? We don’t really know a single thing about her aside from the fact that she’s a vampire Giles is attracted to (missed opportunity for him to reflect of Buffy’s vamp relationships and his attitude towards them, by the way) and that she’s inexplicably chosen to help Giles for some reason. At this point in the story, Vicki had stronger characterization. Roux also further warps the whole “vampires are evil” part of the mythology -and that’s not a good thing.

                Can you imagine if at some point in the show, Giles met a vampire chick in Sunnydale and decided to start dating her and she helped him on missions and stuff? Can you picture that? Me either.
                Last edited by Vampire in Rug; 29-03-18, 08:19 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
                  Roux also further warps the whole “vampires are evil” part of the mythology -and that’s not a good thing.

                  Can you imagine if at some point in the show, Giles met a vampire chick in Sunnydale and decided to start dating her and she helped him on missions and stuff? Can you picture that? Me either.
                  This is really starting to be a major gripe for me. It completely devalues the entire premise of the universe up to and including Spike and Angel's arcs. Why are they special again? Why do the SD and LA gang kill vamps? Why even bother making slayers to begin with? You can't even pass it off as a NuVamp revision because she's nearly as old as Spike apparently.

                  They also need to pick a Giles. He's drawn as 12 or so in S11 and looks to be 17 in this book, I guess because it would be creepy otherwise.

                  Joss may be listed as co-writer, but I'm not feeling much of him in this. Not in the dialogue and not in the story itself.

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                  • #10
                    There’s also no need for this to be set during season 11.
                    I haven't read #2 properly but that's what I initially thought about #1. However, on page 4 there's a reference to being "carted off to the Safe Zone" and I wondered about the significance of the school's name."Living Legend, Charter School". Charter "a formal statement of the rights of a country's people, or of an organization or a particular social group, that is agreed by or demanded from a ruler or government". Is this referring to something that's going on in S11 - the press statements at the beginning or foreshadowing those at the end perhaps?

                    I think there's a connect to Fray. The sigil on the door in the basement looks very much like Fray's tattoo. Both Fray and #1Giles open with what looks like an eclipse - or a black sun. "Black sun" is a poetic metaphor for depression/melancholia - "Blue" has a similar meaning - so Girl Blue could be Depressed Girl. Black Dog was a phrase Winston Churchill used to refer to his own depression - it's also one of the Mix Tapes (Led Zeppelin) "You ain't never been blue, no, no, no You ain't never been blue Till you've had that mood indigo" Mood Indigo is another Mix Tape (Nina Simone's version is from the album "Little Girl Blue").

                    At the end of S11 BtVS Willow says "I need to find me a lesbian vampire with a soul" - lose the "a" and she could be describing Roux (which means red in French). Does Willow fall into a depression and do something that causes Fray? Is it connected to Roux? Is there a face-off between Giles and Willow (again)?

                    There's also the reference to string theory. "The theory is thought to describe an enormous landscape of possible universes". I initially thought string theory was a way of describing Fray (then I realised I'd forgotten everything I'd ever known about string theory so ignored my inclinations)

                    The following might be going too far but I wondered about Roux having a plume:

                    "The Black Sun in Mesoamerican mythology has many mystical meanings, among them it is connected to the god Quetzalcoatl and his penetration in the Underworld through the west door after his diurnal passage on the sky. For the Mexicas there were two suns, the young Day Sun and the ancient Dark Sun. Some scholars regard the mythological Black Sun as the ancient female origin of all, it is both tomb and womb. This way, it is the oneness that uniformly integrates unawareness, death, and yet an expectation of fecundity Quetzalcoatl is a plumed serpent - and damned "mothers" again!"

                    Oh...I don't know!

                    @ Betta
                    Same, same. I really enjoyed this issue, and Roux is growing on me.
                    I'm not sure I'd use "enjoyed" but I'm finding it intriguing.
                    Last edited by TriBel; 29-03-18, 10:22 PM.
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                    • #11
                      This might just be worse than Billy. In comparison, Billy was readable and written with an understanding of the medium and, while truly awful it at least generated an emotional response (This is trash! Who wrote this garbage?!) Giles mini is so bad I feel nothing, I can't even get angery about it. It's a complete failure.

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                      • #12
                        Wasn't It meant to be Whedon? If so that would explain of lot of things imo.....

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by a thing of evil View Post
                          This might just be worse than Billy. In comparison, Billy was readable and written with an understanding of the medium and, while truly awful it at least generated an emotional response (This is trash! Who wrote this garbage?!) Giles mini is so bad I feel nothing, I can't even get angery about it. It's a complete failure.
                          I don't know what is the purpose of this mini (maybe it will be totally inconsequential), but it's not as uninteresting as Billy! I'm rereading #2, and the dialogue is still trying to be "clever", but it's better than #1, so it has improved... it's rushed, and I fear for S12: 4 issues can be a hindrance (although I trust Christos Gage).

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          Originally posted by HardlyThere View Post
                          This is really starting to be a major gripe for me. It completely devalues the entire premise of the universe up to and including Spike and Angel's arcs. Why are they special again? Why do the SD and LA gang kill vamps? Why even bother making slayers to begin with? You can't even pass it off as a NuVamp revision because she's nearly as old as Spike apparently.
                          I'm liking Roux, but yeah - I kind of hope she does something treacherous according to her nature, and ends up dusted.

                          They also need to pick a Giles. He's drawn as 12 or so in S11 and looks to be 17 in this book, I guess because it would be creepy otherwise.
                          In the first issue, he says he's 17... I also agree that's confunsing and wrong, he wasn't 17 before.
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by betta View Post
                            I don't know what is the purpose of this mini (maybe it will be totally inconsequential), but it's not as uninteresting as Billy! I'm rereading #2, and the dialogue is still trying to be "clever", but it's better than #1, so it has improved... it's rushed, and I fear for S12: 4 issues can be a hindrance (although I trust Christos Gage).

                            - - - Updated - - -



                            I'm liking Roux, but yeah - I kind of hope she does something treacherous according to her nature, and ends up dusted.



                            In the first issue, he says he's 17... I also agree that's confunsing and wrong, he wasn't 17 before.
                            And he's clearly not 17 in the final pages of S11.

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                            • #15
                              I've bought both issues but haven't read them yet. I'm thinking this might benefit from reading in one sitting. Hmmm, to wait or not to wait. If it would be complete before S12 starts I might hold off and read it as a complete story.

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