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Angel S11 # 12 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

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  • Angel S11 # 12 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

    The final issue of Angel Season 11 is out tomorrow.Opening the thread for it.

  • #2
    A nice little "send-off" for Kathy's ring though the time travel questions and purpose of the story are still murky. Apparently Fred might have her own feelings for Angel and could have stopped whatever happened in the barn but chose not too. That's going to be a bit controversial.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by DanSlayer View Post
      A nice little "send-off" for Kathy's ring though the time travel questions and purpose of the story are still murky. Apparently Fred might have her own feelings for Angel and could have stopped whatever happened in the barn but chose not too. That's going to be a bit controversial.
      Totally shameful, the whole thing with the mirror was just a MISTAKE.

      The bugs had no meaning whatsoever.

      What's the purpose of the stupid vision? A reason to have Angel and Illyria frolicking in the past? Their travel caused death and destruction; and the mean plant was defeated by throwing what they brought from the past, so if they hadn't traveled at all...
      My Tumblr: Dog is My Copilot

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      • #4
        I haven't got my copy of #12 yet, so is Angel still a vampire? Was the reflection really just a mistake?? I don't know what to think of that.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Priceless View Post
          I haven't got my copy of #12 yet, so is Angel still a vampire? Was the reflection really just a mistake?? I don't know what to think of that.
          Yes and yes. The way it looks now he, Fred and Ilyria could be a poly triad but I doubt they'd go through with that.

          In fairness they saved Arev's species and the pirate ship sank either way. But the time breaker questions and just the overall reason for the trip is ignored. We have possible new ships, another lesson for Angel to let things go and Fred/Illyria learning to get along in one body. Other then that the whole thing effectively took two days and nothing major (that they follow through with) happened.

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          • #6
            Wenxina says that there will be a Slayalive Q/A with Angel season 11 writer Corinna Bechko next week.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by DanSlayer View Post
              A nice little "send-off" for Kathy's ring though the time travel questions and purpose of the story are still murky. Apparently Fred might have her own feelings for Angel and could have stopped whatever happened in the barn but chose not too. That's going to be a bit controversial.
              It is still icky that it seems Angel had sex with Illyria with Fred just there in the background. Even if she does like him herself too, that's just kinda lucky because Angel had sex with Illyria in her body without knowing that, I assume. But now it's potentially a little creepy and voyeuristic on Fred's side too. Fred and Illyria are separate beings sharing one body. They've made it clear there is some seeping influence between them but never implied they aren't distinct. Unless Angel wanted to date them both, how could it even work with a shared body between Fred/Illyria. And even if he did, they are so very different any time spent with one could be read as preferential by the other. Plus it was Illyria first etc etc. Totally awkward, even before you get into all those ick factors that are mounting up over it.

              I'll get the trades, I don't want to miss a chunk of canon, but I'm not sure what they were thinking over this season here. Nothing I've read in comments on it seems to give any sense of worth in purpose to it. The Q&A will be interesting, to see what is asked as much as what the answers are.

              Originally posted by Priceless View Post
              I haven't got my copy of #12 yet, so is Angel still a vampire? Was the reflection really just a mistake?? I don't know what to think of that.
              So frustrating that it was an error. I'd hoped something big and interesting was going to happen that would have me rushing to read the digital copy. Hey ho.
              Last edited by Stoney; 21-12-17, 02:41 PM.

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              • #8
                Again, I don't consider post-Season 9 can be canon, but it seems more stuff in post-Season 9 seems opposed to earlier canon.

                There's around zero indication in AtF s5 and after that Fred still had sexual and/or romantic feelings for Angel.

                There is around zero indication in AtF s5 and after that Illyria ever had any sexual and/or romantic feelings for Angel.

                It must be stated again that it makes little sense in-'verse that Illyria didn't remain in BtVS. If AtF is canon, it is shown that Illyria had some feelings for Spike. Illyria was going to dust Angel if Spike wished it. Fred from AtS s5 was at least partly attracted to Spike.

                Angel in Season 11 got to go on adventures through time or whatever while Buffy and Willow were de-powered; Spike was starving; and Buffy, Spike, and Willow were in a 'concentration camp'.

                If anything, Illyria/Fred is probably simply another Nina for Angel.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                  It is still icky that it seems Angel had sex with Illyria with Fred just there in the background. Even if she does like him herself too, that's just kinda lucky because Angel had sex with Illyria in her body without knowing that, I assume. But now it's potentially a little creepy and voyeuristic on Fred's side too. Fred and Illyria are separate beings sharing one body. They've made it clear there is some seeping influence between them but never implied they aren't distinct. Unless Angel wanted to date them both, how could it even work with a shared body between Fred/Illyria. And even if he did, they are so very different any time spent with one could be read as preferential by the other. Plus it was Illyria first etc etc. Totally awkward, even before you get into all those ick factors that are mounting up over it.

                  I'll get the trades, I don't want to miss a chunk of canon, but I'm not sure what they were thinking over this season here. Nothing I've read in comments on it seems to give any sense of worth in purpose to it. The Q&A will be interesting, to see what is asked as much as what the answers are.



                  So frustrating that it was an error. I'd hoped something big and interesting was going to happen that would have me rushing to read the digital copy. Hey ho.

                  It's actually made me quite angry Stoney lol, I wish there was someone I could complain too

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by betta View Post
                    What's the purpose of the stupid vision? A reason to have Angel and Illyria frolicking in the past? Their travel caused death and destruction; and the mean plant was defeated by throwing what they brought from the past, so if they hadn't traveled at all...
                    I'm quoting myself here, because I went back to issue #1 (it's sad that I'm still wasting time on this, but anyway...), and after Angel had the vision, they fought the ghosts that were supposed to be running from something nasty (I think this was said later); and we see a beetle coming through a breach.

                    So, the "invasion" was already starting - and the flower was already growing. I still have no idea why Illyria/Fred thought that a little flower growing in a sidewalk crack was so threatening (since it was Angel who had the vision and knew what kind of plant it was), as well as why she immediately decided that going back in time would fix things.

                    So, while they were away, things on the present got nasty (nothing to do with what they were doing, chaos would have happened anyway), and they ended up saving the day because they brought objects from the past? And the whole issue of Angel/Liam/Angelus having walked in the same place?
                    My Tumblr: Dog is My Copilot

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                      It's actually made me quite angry Stoney lol, I wish there was someone I could complain too
                      Well you could always write in to Dark Horse, they give a general email address at the start of the letters section in the main title.

                      It all sounds very confusing to be honest betta and without having read it I'm sure I don't stand a cat in hells chance of helping to find how this was supposed to all tie together. I was hoping ViR would have read/posted on it but he hasn't been here or on SA, so perhaps he's not around at the moment. You can always try to think of a what of saying "wtf???" politely enough that Wenxina will let it through the SA Q&A and Corinna might be able to explain.

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                      • #12
                        I did think about sending a derogatory tweet to Dark Horse, asking them if they were looking for editors because they certainly didn't have one working on the Angel comic. Take that Dark Horse But what would it achieve. I'm looking forward to seeing what Corinna Bechko has to say

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                        • #13
                          There's nothing as egregious in Buffy season 11 but, for example, in issue #9, Willow's gloves suddenly disappear on one page. Errors happen, even with someone as experienced as Georges Jeanty. Still, Angel, having a reflection, in a comic? Completely embarrassing.

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                          • #14
                            Not sure if this whole concept of Angel having simultaneous romance with Illyria and Fred sharing same body is a Picard facepalm, or maybe a Ryan Reynolds facepalm gif?
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                            • #15
                              I've never noticed Willow's gloves disappearing, I shall have to go back and look more closely. But gloves aren't of the same level as the lead character, who happens to be a vampire, having a reflection. It's just abysmal. I think they are trying to run the Angel title into the ground for some reason

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