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Buffy S11 # 11 Thread.(Full Spoilers)

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  • Buffy S11 # 11 Thread.(Full Spoilers)

    The issue is out tomorrow so I'm opening the thread.

  • #2
    I loved the pace of this issue. It took no time at all to read and I was disappointed when it cut. But I was also disappointed the person behind it all (who, no shock, was on a power hunt) turned out to just be another Government official. I would have just liked there to be have been more of a connection to the group. But I suppose it is more believable that this is just the latest threat and that it doesn't have to relate to their pasts with others all the time. So I do think you can argue it is better for it being this way too.

    I don't understand why Faith's power was drained too if what Willow performed was literally a reversal of the Chosen empowerment spell. I'll just assume that it was in reality a wider draw on any/all other slayers not connected to the scythe as it was performed. It was great to have Faith there and totally on board with the necessity of it. It stopped it feeling like they were going back on their general principle in doing the empowerment originally and I'll be very surprised if it isn't returned at the end rather than Buffy remaining an uber-slayer.

    Spike biting metal again just felt awkward (although I think it was supposed to be that he drew metallic liquid this time). They keep doing this in variations and it seems somewhat odd and like it could be leading somewhere. I don't know what its about. It could just be emphasising his nature still I suppose, and that works with his general issues and remaining sense of distinction/separation from the humans he lives with and fights alongside. He just seems to be fighting in vamp face/biting far more than normal this season I think. I don't know what else to say, it just feels odd. It could just be me.

    I'm looking forward to seeing how they wrap this up and I think I'll really enjoy reading over this season as a whole once we've got to the end.

    Still no news on a S12, I'm assuming NYCC is likely to be the time that occurs.

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    • #3
      So, for all that, the mastermind was a total rando whom I didn't recognize until identified verbally by another character and don't remember even after. That is damn disappointing.

      Also, the complete logic jump to where reversing the empowerment spell would be the only way for Buffy to meaningfully fight her felt every bit as tacked on/shoe-horned as it is. But I could go with it if it wasn't for it reaching Critical Plot Error -- how could reversing a spell that didn't give Faith her power, deprive Faith of her power? There is 0.0% internal logic behind that. Second Critical Plot Error -- there was never indication, in any book, in any context, that the spell in "Chosen" took away from Buffy any quotient of her power to spread it around, just that it awakened the same power in others for whom it was already, well, potential. So logically if this was to work as a power-up, you're implying one of two things -- either a) Buffy was less of a Slayer after the spell (no basis in story), or b) that this isn't really a reversal so much as Buffy and Willow just siphoning power straight off other people.

      Honestly, I have no emotional investment whatsoever in this villain and can't even clearly understand the series of events -- this "press secretary" (not even the WH press secretary? Just this agency or office? Can't even remember) who had been grooming herself for power summoned the dragon and then... somehow was able to engineer the rest? With intra-office white papers? I don't see how.

      It was not quite what I was hoping for out of this issue, to be sure, and the reversal of the empowerment spell is a whole other can of worms. Guys, thousands of Slayers was not the world-building choice that hurt the foundation, not the 5th worst even.
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      • #4
        I won't have my issue until Friday and I have been reading both books.I explained why my thoughts on each issue dropped off.I'll post my thoughts overall on the season next month for Buffy and when Angel concludes.That just seems easier for me at this point than going back issue by issue.

        But I actually was figuring that the Chosen One empowerment spell was going to be reversed.I think they showed that hand in the solicitation for issue 12.

        the battle between Buffy—once again the Chosen One—and the Big Bad comes to its zenith

        As soon as I saw that back in July,I was thinking they were going to reverse the empowerment spell.

        Will be interesting to see if they re-power the other slayers especially Faith.Right this second,I'm actually thinking they might not and leave Buffy as the only Chosen One again.That could be a major storyline for a potential season 12.Not just for Buffy but for Faith too.

        As for season 12,I still think if there is any news/announcments,it will come next week at NYCC.
        Last edited by BAF; 27-09-17, 01:14 PM.

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        • #5
          I love the issue, but I’m not gonna deny I got a little disappointed at the revelation of the BB: the Press Secretary (Ms. Wise) really didn’t do much for me; I had hoped for someone more connected to the Scoobies, to their past. The woman wisely have been draining magic from supernatural beings (not only witches, but also werewolves, demons etc) for months, and has enhanced her body with mechanical parts too.

          But overall, #11 is packed with good action – and a really important and meaningful happening: the spell that Willow performed in Chosen, making Buffy share her power with all Potentials of the world, has been undone (and Faith, for some reason, ended up depowered, too). I like that such a bold action has been taken, and I hope it sticks. The consequences of it would be huge, and I think it would be good for the story (if we have a S12): for starts, Buffy would feel the burden on her shoulders all over again, and we would see how she would deal with it; plus, all the women who once felt the power of Slayerhood would be suddenly deprived of it, and their reaction to it certainly wouldn’t be a nice one (by the majority of them, I believe). But that’s for the next issue.

          Again someone - like Simone in the past - has figured out that “in a world where no one has magic, she who does rules!”, and played well the fearful authorities to do her bidding. Power-hungry people are always a menace to the world; it’s good to see that Willow herself has come a long way and become such a powerful witch who puts her skills to the service of good – not an amateur anymore. And Will and Buffy – they’re beautifully connected to each other!

          And the Shenlong is back! Yay! The art by Rebekah Isaacs is amazing, as always; I do love her work, and the dragon rocks!

          PS. Why in hell Ms. Wise is still wearing glasses? The first thing I would want in my life would be to get hid of them!
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          • #6
            Joanna Wise is the lamest big bad that has ever appeared in the Buffyverse. Worse than Adam, Archeaus and the Twilight Cat. If the big bad in Angel season 11 is a flower with teeth, even that will be a "better" villian in the sense that at least I remember that the damn thing exists and it's got an interesting aesthetic. I literally could not tell you what Ms. Wise has done this season, I think I remember her appearing on TV at one point? They should have just pulled Amy out of nowhere, that would have been better.

            Jordan was a better antagonist than Ms. Wise.

            Also lolwut at the reverse Slayer spell. That... came completely out of nowhere. So Willow has been able to remove Slayer powers this whole time? Sure would have come in handy against Simone or Jordan earlier. Like most Buffyverse spells, it's pulled out of Willow's ass the moment it's convenient, despite never being mentioned before.

            And why was Faith affected? She had nothing to do with the Chosen spell. If anything, Faith should have been the one to get the power-up seeing as how she's the "prime" Slayer. Buffy is the one who is the anomaly. Buffy's next death shouldn't trigger the next Slayer, but Faith's should have.

            Did Faith do anything noteworthy this season, or did she only show up to get depowered?

            Doesn't this completely invalidate the empowerment message of Chosen if all the girls get downgraded again the moment it's convenient? Surely a bunch of Slayers were in combat just now and died as a result. Wasn't this the sort of shit Toru was trying to pull in season 8? I get that it was necessary to boost Buffy's powers against Ms. Wise, but they should have treated the situation with some gravatis rather than "look how awesome her new powers are".

            Of course in the next issue, Ms. Wise is going to die a Disney death. She'll die by her own hand trying to boost her powers, or she'll get eaten by the dragon she unleashed. I'd be surprised if Buffy even kills her out of self defense in combat, let alone executes her like she did with D'Hoffryn. And remember, Ms. Wise has the highest death toll of anyone during her tenure as big bad save for maybe Twilight and even then it's arguable.

            What happened with Vikki? Or Giles? Or the vampire citizenship question from the start of the season? Or the magic council from last season?

            I'm expecting a very safe, mediocre ending to a season that started off well but played it way too safe.

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            • #7
              Yeah, I loved this issue as well. It's gonna take me forever to hammer out a proper post though, there's just so many references and callbacks and nods to previous seasons here, so much shit I want to talk about! Love it! And, yeah, Willow is just pure sex in this issue. Whatever happens in the finale, I feel like this season truly delivered, you know?

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              • #8
                On the positive side, I really did enjoy the tighter pacing of this season. No issue felt like filler, it all advanced the plot. I enjoyed the change of scenery while they were in the Safe Zone camp, that was an interesting setting.

                Overall this season was way better than the crapfest of season 9, and was at least on par with season 10. Would have been better if the story didn't try to tackle political crap in the most shallow way possible, magic needs to be dialed way back, and the story could have had a better villian.

                I would have happily read a whole season set in the Safe Zone. Realistically, Connor, Gwen and Nina should have been living in there. The Angel book could have taken place in the Safe Zone too instead of the shitty time travel story we're getting.

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                • #9
                  I believe the reverse spell couldn't be done to an individual only, so to use it on Simone or Jordan was ruled out (besides, in the case of Jordan wouldn't be right for the Scoobies simply to take her powers). Now, the spell was used in an emergency - the threat was immense: Wise has become too powerful and was about to use the machine, and the dragon was at large. Thousands of lives were at risk.
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                  • #10
                    I wasn't being clear enough. Obviously a complete reversal will strip ALL the Slayers of their powers, just as the empowerment spell wasn't selective. But what's stopping Willow from flipping that switch off and on again when it suits her? Remember in season 8 when Simone took over an island and displaced all the inhabitants? And how Buffy had no choice but to let them have the island because Simone's Slayer gang outnumbered her and Andrew? Why couldn't Willow reverse the empowerment spell, then have super-Buffy go beat the shit out of, then imprison Simone and her crew of normal teenage girls? Then they could re-empower all the girls as soon as it was convenient again, i.e. After Simone was sedated/magically imprisoned.

                    When Vamp-Simone had Buffy impaled in the Deeper Well, wouldn't that have been a great time to tip the scales and turn Simone into a regular vamp and give Buffy a Wolverine-tier healing factor? Again, they could redistribute the power to all the Potentials as soon as the crisis was over.


                    For that matter, in the final issue we'll need an explanation for why Willow doesn't just empower all the girls again. Maybe the writers should have let Ms. Wise snap the scythe if they can't come up with an explanation...

                    My fanon is that Buffy's new powers are what she would have gotten if she allowed the Shadowmen to upgrade her in Get it Done.

                    Would be interesting if being an uber-Slayer made he more vicious and less humane. Maybe even develop an unexplained feeling of intense malice towards Spike which puts strain on the relationship...

                    Would have been better if Faith got upgraded instead. She's already got a dark side to her, and could believably actually kill the big bad, unlike Buffy who is gonna luck out when Ms. Wise gives herself a "Disney death" through her own fault.

                    Also a season 12 where Buffy is reduced to a normal human has the potential to be interesting. And before you folks immediately dismiss that idea, remember that the best Angel comics had him as a human.

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                    • #11
                      When Vamp-Simone had Buffy impaled in the Deeper Well, wouldn't that have been a great time to tip the scales and turn Simone into a regular vamp and give Buffy a Wolverine-tier healing factor?
                      No magic at that point. Impossible.

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                      • #12
                        That's true, I forgot about the timing there.

                        Still, we're gonna need a reason why Willow can't flip that switch on and off again as it suits her. Still doesn't make sense why Faith got depowered, or why Buffy got a boost because as KOC says, her power was never diminished when it was "shared" with all the Potentials.

                        I wonder what Buffy's overall power level is now. She insta-healed from those death rays, she seems faster and stronger although I wonder to what degree? I wonder if she received a Slayer's innate ability to sense vampires that Giles reprimanded her for never "honing"? Maybe she can now lucid dream and communicate with Sineya at will?

                        I think being a turbo-Slayer should come with some drawbacks. Maybe she's got less humanity/empathy like Sineya or what would have happened if she received the boost from the Shadowmen...

                        EDIT: just remembered, when Simone skewered Buffy, didn't Willow have self-powered magic because the baby Seed of Wonder was still inside her? There was no magic in the atmosphere, but there was magic inside Willow. She could still fly and cast energy bolts/spells and shit because she'd been to the "Essence of Magic" dimension. Although when the Buffy/Simone fight happened, maybe Willow was in a different part of the cave, I can't 100% remember.
                        Last edited by Vampire in Rug; 30-09-17, 03:37 AM.

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                        • #13
                          Buffy was kebab'd after the birth of the seed. Also, look:

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
                            I wonder what Buffy's overall power level is now. She insta-healed from those death rays, she seems faster and stronger although I wonder to what degree? I wonder if she received a Slayer's innate ability to sense vampires that Giles reprimanded her for never "honing"? Maybe she can now lucid dream and communicate with Sineya at will?
                            An extended span of life, maybe?

                            But I'm start thinking that the depowering won't stick - the presence of Faith, if I agree its purpose may have been to have her approval, means also it won't stick. I don't believe they have the nerve to keep Faith powerless.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by betta View Post
                              An extended span of life, maybe?

                              But I'm start thinking that the depowering won't stick - the presence of Faith, if I agree its purpose may have been to have her approval, means also it won't stick. I don't believe they have the nerve to keep Faith powerless.
                              Makes it even dumber, since she is the literal only Slayer in the world who was not a party to the empowerment spell in any context. She neither figured in its casting nor did she benefit from it. She is the one and only Slayer who can't expy a consenting Slayer-verse. That would have been a great time for a Satsu cameo. Or Dana. Or whomever.
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