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Buffy # 25 Issue Discussion Thread(full spoilers)

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  • Buffy # 25 Issue Discussion Thread(full spoilers)

    The new issue is out this week.

  • #2
    This is a really poorly-paced issue and arc, moreso than standard Gage. Nothing happens, then a bunch of stuff happens.

    Basically Dawn's a god in the new dimension, which she stays in after much, much talking. Spike's a dick in a characterization that makes no sense after A Hole in the World and blames Buffy for not dragging Dawn out by her hair and putting the world at peril, even though he initially agrees with it. Buffy makes a haphazard wish which Ghost!Anya overhears and grants since she's a Vengeancedemon!Ghost!Anya, which empowers D'hoffryn (who made her) to kill the Glutton and Mistress. It's revealed he wants the book. Also Ghost!Anya is now corporeal.

    Mix in a bunch of exposition from mini!Giles that it seems out of the realm of reason he would know offhand.

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    • #3
      So she really is Anya?

      Comment


      • #4
        Nope, a carbon copy D'hoffryn made. She was kept in Ghost!Anya form because D'hoffryn couldn't trust her to make her real again until she saw how "duplicitous and self-involved her friends were".

        Or something.

        The last page is Anya 2.0 and D'hoffryn facing each other over Mistress's burning body with D saying their future will be glorious.

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        • #5
          A carbon copy? Err what??

          Convenient for the writers though.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yup. Why he needed such a convoluted plot is yet to be explained.

            Comment


            • #7
              It was very predictable on the reveals overall... "D'Hoffryn can't be trusted and is really after the book???" *gasp* I didn't think the idea that he needed to fool the fake Anya into believing in her 'friends' so that they could let her down and he could make her become a vengeance demon works (did I follow that right?). Why not just find a soul full of self interest who would just play along?? It just doesn't really make sense to me as it stands.

              Spike and Buffy have had a season where there has been mutual support shown but often along with not really seeing the worries of the other fully and/or not being totally open about their own fears. This felt like a deliberate swing to push away from that and if they wanted them both legitimately struggling with their own emotional responses to something that overrides considering the other and keeping up barriers, using Dawn was probably the way to go to create tension. I'm unsure where they will go with it but if they want to expand the problem I don't think they will just remain unable to talk and they've openly paved the way to having Spike's worrying making him become unfairly accusatory. I just hope that the characterisations aren't bent to fit where Gage wants to take it, but that it is all built up and developed. It will be frustrating if it feels that it is presented as an insurmountable issue simply because Gage wants there to be one (rather than it really being shown to be one, if you see what I mean). There is potential it will just be the straw that breaks for some of those hidden fears/worries to come out. Having to leave Dawn played yet again into Spike's issues they have been showing repeatedly, his worries about still being a demon/monster and his aversion to sunlight holding him back out of the world he wants to be within. So it could be that these personal problems cause him to pull away and he goes to face the problem alone if they want it to lead into a breaking point. However I have to say, and I know I'm probably beating my head against a brick wall in this verse, but I'd welcome a relationship that hits troubles and works through it. That this forces the issue out and they are able to tackle it. The predictability of the relationships ending is the one thing in the verse that is really unrelateable for me.

              So I'm expecting Spike/Buffy to at least clash further over an inability to get Dawn back and Spike's underlying problems to be the true root cause of his stress. I assume that there is a fair chance Dawn will get herself back in the end after her/Xander do some dimension touring. She may even be the extra whammy that kicks D'Hoffryn into touch as she reappears at the pertinent part of the battle, or some such.

              I still really dislike Levens' Spike and will be glad to get Rebekah back. I was also unimpressed by Dawn suddenly realising/accessing her powers and the ease of it all once she could, like disintegrating of the demon and closing the portal. Way too sudden, neat and convenient.

              Comment


              • #8
                Eh, I think it'll be WYSIWYG, as has always been the case. When Xander and Dawn don't return right away, Spike'll continue to blame her for letting her stay in the Hell dimension, which is bothersome writing. Spike, even ensouled, has been shown to be a pragmatist. Always casualties in war and what happened with Fred. He'll insist on using the book, which'll make him even madder.

                So I'll go with the tension being forced, just as Ghost!Anya's freakout at Xander for leaving is forced. Just a way to turn her evil.

                Everything in the issue is yanked out of Gage's backside. The exposition, Dawn's powers, Spike/Buffy tension, Anya/Xander tension and even Buffy arbitrarily wishing things that suddenly gives D'hoffryn powers.

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                • #9
                  Well I know it is a distinct risk but there is the potential for more based on what has previously been on the page this season, and it ties through coherently right back with the issues I mentioned for Spike. As I said, I'm hoping characterisation isn't just shoved to suit the direction Gage wants to take things. But I accept that could be what we get.
                  Last edited by Stoney; 24-03-16, 01:42 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Mayhap. I guess the vampire thing in this issue just seemed more to me like a convenient reason to have Dawn and Xander paired off to be couple-y again rather than a thread continuation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/03/...23-2016?page=3

                      Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 10 #25

                      Written by Christos Gage | Drawn by Megan Levens

                      Buffy was a talky TV show. Heck , Joss Whedon is practically the master of fictional conversation writing. But boy, oh boy, is this one talky issue. Reading this issue is like listening to one of your friends explain an entire season of a TV show to you. Situations, motivations, implications - they are all spelled out in long, rambling detail. The thing is, Buffy is the perfect kind of property to show that dialogue is just as much “action” as a punch to the face is. But, the level of conversation here goes beyond character interaction to deep levels of exposition and outward projections of motivation. The story ends in some interesting plot advancement, but at the cost of a well told narrative. –Levi

                      Final Score:

                      5.5

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                      • #12
                        I appreciated the reveal for what it was, but it seems all really too convoluted to make sense. I mean... why couldn't D'Hoffryn have just done what he do and found a likely subject and converted her, and then set about embedding her the way vengeance demons go amongst their marks like we've seen over and over, and contrived to get the required wish made? Sure seems like the only reason to have him make a copy of Anya, and to make her noncorporeal... is so we could have a year or so of issues over which to debate whether she was ghost Anya or a hallucination or something else.

                        About the only way I can rationalize it is if he figured only an Anya-ish that couldn't interact would be close enough to observe the particulars, to know what the target wish needed to sound like? I dunno. About the only thing I need to know that would REALLY improve the quality of this long con would be if D'Hoffryn were Dr. Mike. THAT would raise it's quality substantially, and show that D'Hoffryn wasn't just leaving it to fate, but was actually pushing the pieces in a desired direction.

                        As for Dawn's asspull powers... eh, whatever, not really germane to me. I enjoyed the scene over Dawn going through the portal or not, and it did the thing it most needed to do, with Buffy knowing she had to let her go. I enjoyed Spike's total reversion to Dawn-protector. And I enjoyed that Xander just didn't say anything at all until near the end of it, when he just acted on what he decided himself.

                        I'd have blocked the whole thing out a lot differently if I was writing it, personally, probably would have wanted to add a greater sense of immediate danger to what it meant to be sitting in that dimension, long way home or not. A bit more like the Quor'toth of it back in "Angel" Season 3. A bit more a palpable sense that this wasn't a travel inconvenience, that this very well might be it for Dawn or anyone staying on the wrong side of that portal. And I mean... water, food, shelter? I also wouldn't have bothered having Xander qualify his motivations, or even explain them. It is what it is. They're all Dawn's friends; he's the one in love with her, right? That is the Xander distinction, so wouldn't have apologized for it. Shrug and say something pithy, something very "I like the quiet", and just stayed.
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                        • #13
                          I'm guessing the Dr. Mike thing comes up next issue. That's who Buffy's beating up. /random spec

                          Also it could just be the wording, but I'm guessing D'hoffryn has a VD army. He says Anya is the crown jewel of his reconstituted ranks. He also kept Glutton's trident by the looks of it, which may/may not mean something.

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          I'm guessing the Dr. Mike thing comes up next issue. That's who Buffy's beating up. /random spec

                          Also it could just be the wording, but I'm guessing D'hoffryn has a VD army. He says Anya is the crown jewel of his reconstituted ranks. He also kept Glutton's trident by the looks of it, which may/may not mean something.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Stoney View Post

                            I still really dislike Levens' Spike and will be glad to get Rebekah back. I was also unimpressed by Dawn suddenly realising/accessing her powers and the ease of it all once she could, like disintegrating of the demon and closing the portal. Way too sudden, neat and convenient.
                            I dislike Levens' everyone, but especially Spike, followed by Dawn. Levens gives everyone really big snub noses, for some reason. I haven't disliked anyone's rendition of the characters as much since Jeanty.

                            As for the writing, everything others have said is true, but I'm still glad they're finally getting round to the actual plot and that something happened (a few issues before the end of the season... it was high time, for sure), even if it was poorly written, after almost an entire season of boring villains and random non-events. A lot of people had suspected D'Hoffryn would be the real Big Bad, but that's a twist I welcome, since he's a far more interesting villain than any of the forgettable new demons introduced this season in either book. And we seem to be finally getting some character development for Dawn and the set up for her relationship with Xander to be explored, though this will probably have to wait for season 11.
                            You keep waiting for the dust to settle and then you realize it; the dust is your life going on. If happy comes along - that weird unbearable delight that's actual happy - I think you have to grab it while you can. You take what you can get, 'cause it's here, and then...gone.

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                            • #15
                              The issue with D'hoffryn is it's not even really a reveal. The audience is like Buffy when Warren says April is a robot. Same with the military. Instead of being with the characters, you're left shaking your head at them. The gang's history with these people just makes them look stupid for trusting them even a little.

                              Kinda like the first arc when they send Xander and Dawn to get Dracula. Sending a guy who has been enthralled twice by Drac to tell him you have an all powerful book? Sure to end well.

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