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Buffy # 21 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

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  • Buffy # 21 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

    Buffy # 21 is already advailable on GooglePlay a month early.There is also a extensive preview.So I'll open the thread now.

    https://play.google.com/store/books/...d=B-TMCgAAQBAJ

  • #2
    I went ahead and went for it. It's... not their best issue. Started out okay, loved the random Graham cameo as a cable news contributor on demonic attacks on the rise (enabled by the Restless Door and was it really called that at the time?).

    Definitely one of those issues that's a little too "too" in a lot of ways. Glad Satsu was there to say "eff that" to Angel, Angel being mind controlled, Buffy's naked hypocrisy in forgiving the tacit mastermind but somehow hating and mistrusting all the institutions that he was using to achieve his ends, namely the US military. But she was really just the first in an issue long parade of contrived tension between Buffy and Spike, most of which don't really feel likely to build real doubt into their relationship, because they are all such old ground -- he's a vampire, his nature is to kill, etc; he puts her on a pedastal, doesn't really want her other than an idealized version. Any and all of these are perfectly valid and any and all of them are all things one could easily point to past stories and say "nah, dealt with it".

    And besides which, why would Harmony and Vicki give nearly any piles of excrement about breaking up Buffy and Spike or just stirring the pudding there? Other than puckishness? I'd like some sense that they had collaborated in that for a reason, some nefarious purpose. No real hint of one.

    The big twist at the end didn't blow my skirt up, either -- Spike meeting this Dylan at a bar. Probably because there is 0.0000% sense that this is for any untoward or indiscreet purpose on his part. Hell, if anything, I'd almost assume he's going to be asking her for romantic advice about Buffy. Only possible source of relationship drama here is if he didn't/doesn't tell Buffy about whatever past they have or that he's meeting her for whatever reason.
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    • #3
      Bought and read the entire issue and it's 100% Spuffy. Everything from obvious post-coital cuddling to battling frenemies who are obviously trying to pull them apart - from Harmony and Vicki to Satsu and Dylan.

      The entire issue was basically one big "Spuffy is doomed!" fest to either set up the end or throw us off the track and they end up together. Most likely the latter. I can say this without spoiling - but the psychological reading of Spike and Buffy by others is utterly bizarre and makes no sense at all in the context of the series. It's as if Gage saw a different show.

      My first instinct is that the entire comic is boiling down as to whether Spike and Buffy can keep it together in order to achieve the end of Archaeus and the three demon meanies. Since their friends and enemies are trying so hard to pull them apart, I assume their ability to surmount their problems and "grow up" and find that they can love each other saves the world in the end. Probably Drusilla is involved.

      That Tardis-like Magical Doorway that leads to any dimension anywhere at any time seems like an awfully suspicious MacGuffin to throw out there. I really disliked Spike running around in his undies throughout Buffy's apartment - what if Dawn decided to show up? It's her apartment, too. But then Spike doesn't seem to mind parading around in full view even when Buffy opens the front door when a stranger knocks - or Buffy herself for that matter. What if it had been Buffy's dad??? ;P

      Quickly skimming the dialogue, it seems likely that Riley will return - I'm still hoping he's an evil vampire in hiding or under Dru's thrall. The Satsu stuff was really kinda annoying - but not as much as the Harmony-Vicki stuff. So much of it seemed like a retread of the constant reminders in Season Three that Buffy and Angel are DOOMED - from Joyce to the Mayor's speech before his bug fest.

      And Spike's meeting at the ending - feels like a fakeout to me - convince their enemies that they ARE having problems - same as Angel and Buffy faked Faith out in Season Three - but I'm still trying to pull out the authorial voice that poked me through my eye and went through the back of my head this issue that informs us Buffy and Spike are having PROBLEMS - so it may be real. Which would be so out of character for Spike that they might as well have him partner with Angel and have both vamps offer their ample wares at a demon brothel in the next issue for all it matters at this point.
      Last edited by American Aurora; 27-10-15, 01:19 AM.

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      • #4
        Yeah, I weakened (Google dislike) and got it. So as I suspected it does seem the 'old friend' Spike realises some of his Buffy patterns with is going to be Dylan. If Buffy and Spike end up splitting because of one of the other character's constantly offered psycho babble at them (immortals don't change, Spike looks for his partner to solve his problems then moves to the next, Buffy can't ignore the monster still within, Spike finds the reality of being with Buffy fails to meet his fantasies) it will be sooo weak. The idea of the build up to a split being something hand-fed by Harmony or Vicky is ridiculous. It wouldn't be much better if it was Willow or Angel too I have to say, but Gage's comment that Angel's opinions are his own gives me a little tiny hope he isn't going to surpass how much he has previously flagged where he is going this time by actually giving us written directions. I do think there is the risk of a brief split due to distrust because Spike keeps his meet-up with Dylan a secret, possibly, particularly following hiding the Archaeus dream. But I'd bet they will either split longer term for a totally different reason (Spike's issues with the monster within) or they will battle through worries or come back together after a brief Dylan-induced break and earn their mature relationship badge and a free box of girl scout cookies.

        It was all a bit silly to be honest and the excuse to get them into the demon fights I thought was pants. As there is jack all reason why Harmony and Vicky would be working together to split up Buffy and Spike but had obviously specifically planned to do so, I can only assume they are in cahoots with others.

        EDIT: This would imply that them being together matters so could be tied to the final fight.
        Last edited by Stoney; 27-10-15, 02:09 AM.

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        • #5
          I'd imagine they'll break up. As with Dylan, they've never not done the obvious thing so far.

          After a decent last issue, the next 3 really sounds like crap...

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          • #6
            Thanks for the heads up, BAF! So I sat here and read your comments and got more and more worked up til I finally gave in and bought it. Do not like the google web reader, btw. I am having a bit of a rough day so this may be a bit harsher than usual:

            I was happier when vampires were the bad guys. Now we have to make more deals with them again, ugh. I’m sick of Harmony (who seems to be morphing into Glory) and I can’t remember who Vicki is. Mention of Game of Thrones – we can still popculture, you guys! Hah, Harmony does know a lot of embarrassing things about Spike. (I actually don’t think he had Buffy on a pedestal, though. He’s seen the worst of her.) I don’t think any of what either of them are saying is true. I hate when villains get all up in the hero’s personal life. Like can you stick to business for once? Why do all demons dust in this book? And there’s the Dylan we’ve all been waiting for… yawn.

            This really feels like false conflict, like something that would happen on a sitcom. You know, when 5 minutes of communication would prevent the entire plot from occurring? If they’re going to break up why can’t it be for a good reason instead of stupid ones?

            Spike in his underwear does not bother me. They should be glad he’s even wearing the boxers.

            I enjoyed Satsu’s cameo and I’m looking forward to seeing Riley, although now that I think about it… Hey, maybe Drusilla and Parker can show up, too, and then everybody’s exes can rag on them at the same time! Wouldn’t that be funny? Because that’s a thing that happens in life. /sarcasm

            A disappointing issue following a great one-shot with Triggers. Hopefully the rest of In Pieces on the Ground will come together better. I was hoping to see Xander in this one; hopefully his actual problems will get as many pages as Spuffy’s fake ones.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by HardlyThere View Post
              I'd imagine they'll break up. As with Dylan, they've never not done the obvious thing so far.

              After a decent last issue, the next 3 really sounds like crap...
              That seems like a given. With all the exposure the pairing has been given this season, it really isn't sustainable long term. Plus, in the entire 10 seasons of the series there have only been 2 where Buffy has been in a relationship at the end.

              No Xander this issue? Man they are really letting that arc percolate aren't they. I'm hoping that means its front and center in the final arc.
              Last edited by PointMan; 27-10-15, 10:17 AM.
              “The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.” -- Albert Einstein

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              • #8
                I haven't read the entire issue (no way I'm paying for it twice), but I've seen enough spoilers to join in with the eye-rolling about the obviousness of using Dylan as a catalyst to break up Spike and Buffy. I really hope it's not as obvious as it looks, but usually things are exactly what they seem in the comics, so who knows? And Megan Levens did say she hoped no one would hate her after her next arc (23-25), so it looks fairly clear that's what will happen.

                As for Xander not being in the issue, that seems to be a sort of rolling thing for this arc of MotW issues. Spike wasn't in 19, Willow and Dawn weren't in 20. So Xander (and Giles, I assume, is Dawn in it, if not she'll have been missing for two issues?) aren't in 21.

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                • #9
                  I haven't gotten my hands on the version of this issue where Dylan's presence seems in the least bit likely to harm the Spuffy.

                  Giles is in it, albeit briefly. Has a terse quip about how unpleasant it is to experience the near continuous parade of attractive women who find him puppy adorable in his current state (Satsu in this instance).
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                  • #10
                    Him not telling Buffy could be an issue, but the fact that he is going to talk to Dylan about Buffy means in the short term she isn't likely to be a direct threat I would agree. If she stuck around longer term, then perhaps.

                    The only thing I really give a damn about in regards to Dylan is what details of ITL they make canon by reference. I'm hoping they skirt over the timeframe of when they met or just say something vague like it was outside Sunnydale. Just because they have said ITL isn't canon and anyone not getting the connection wouldn't be missing out doesn't mean Gage won't lift some reference that is one of the many ways it doesn't fit to canon as JM wrote it.

                    - - - Updated - - -

                    Morphia, I think ML may have been referencing Dylan and/or a Spuffy split, but she could also have been talking about the Anya reveal for fans bothered by being told it isn't her. At this end of the season there could be plenty of things. As someone elsewhere has pointed out, the whole point of Harmony and Vicky's stirring could just be a divide and conquer strategy from whomever they are in cahoots with (assuming they are). That would work alongside the upcoming Andrew plot line and with the Xander/Anya issue and Willow and Buffy clashing in issue #22 too. It seems that falling apart is the next stage from a season that started with the supposed happy group dynamic. Not original for sure, but all possibly heading that way.
                    Last edited by Stoney; 27-10-15, 01:11 PM.

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                    • #11
                      I'd be surprised given ML's limited fan interaction if it's something like that. Probably it will either be a split or a death. There has to be some kind of shakeup. When you take into account the name of the arc, especially. They've been rather on-the-nose when it comes to titling.

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                      • #12
                        I barely notice the titles half the time, what is the arc called?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                          I barely notice the titles half the time, what is the arc called?
                          The title is,"In Pieces On The Ground ."

                          I'll be waiting for the issue to be released on stands but I don't mind being spoiled(I actually like being spoiled) so I'm getting a general idea of the issue based on the preview pages and the comments from those who have read the issue.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                            Morphia, I think ML may have been referencing Dylan and/or a Spuffy split, but she could also have been talking about the Anya reveal for fans bothered by being told it isn't her.
                            I believe ML was talking about the AR - an issue that "fans would like to see addressed" and "I hope they don't hate me" seems to fit more with the AR; besides, she isn't the writer, so I think she was referencing to her drawing of the bathroom scene.
                            Last edited by betta; 27-10-15, 08:51 PM. Reason: English butchering
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                            • #15
                              Anyone care to post the preview? Also, how does the Google version handle on the iphone? I had trouble zooming in on the preview, so I'm reluctant to buy it.

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