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Buffy # 21 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Silver1 View Post
    Here we go...

    Spoiler:









    CBR has the preview pages up.The last page is different from the preview Google Play posted.I'm not posting it spoiler hidden since this is the issue thread.I assume most in this thread have read the issue already or are spoiled for it like me.

    http://www.comicbookresources.com/co...se-comics-2015

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    • #32
      Goddamn Vicky is such a lame character. "Blood sack", really? And why is she talking as if she's an experienced vampire? Satsu has been a Slayer for longer than Vicky has been a vamp.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Vampire in Rug View Post
        Goddamn Vicky is such a lame character. "Blood sack", really? And why is she talking as if she's an experienced vampire? Satsu has been a Slayer for longer than Vicky has been a vamp.
        Pretty sure Billy has been a "Slayer" longer than Vicki has been a vamp. Just sayin'. It is an obnoxious... well, Villain Sue like quality, they are basically trying to treat her as though she just "knows" these people and their tendencies and their foibles. It isn't coming across as "genre savvy villain".
        sigpic
        Banner by LRae12

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        • #34
          Reminder,this issue is released tomorrow for those who did not read it early via Google Play.

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          • #35
            Unlike the previous issue, this one did not improve on re-reading.

            Comment


            • #36
              http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/11/...ntent=1&page=3

              Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Season 10 #21

              Written by Christos Gage | Drawn by Rebekah Isaacs

              It’s almost getting comedic how obsessed this book has become with the Buffy/Spike relationship. Ever since its television days, this series has put an emphasis on its relationships, but never this much. It’s getting to the point where seemingly every story beat has to at least mention the decision and question whether or not it’s doomed. A lot of it is interesting, especially for fans of the show who always questioned how it could work, but it’s also getting repetitive. Plus, the stories around the relationship are failing to pull their own weight. This chapter is simply a cage match with a vampire. This relationship drama is in dire need of a resolution, or at least a distraction, because it’s starting to spin its wheels. –Levi

              Final Score

              6.2

              http://www.geekedoutnation.com/comic...-season-10-21/

              Comic Book Review: Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season 10 #21

              by Jideobi Odunze



              After that powerful and emotional issue which came before, it’s time for something new. A new story arc for Buffy and the gang, but the same troubles that seem to have escalated over time. Three demon lords on the loose, a portal generator in their grasp, and demons from far and wide who now have access to their world. What could go wrong? A lot.

              This arc looks to set them on a path where they have to start thinking outside the box if they want to make any progress in finding the demon lords. With a new world and new rules, a little outside the box thinking doesn’t hurt with everything the gang has been through so far. Old ways can only help so long as the enemy still thinks the same. Part of that also comes with working side by side with those who have hurt you. In this case being the army. This again from season 10 is a nice touch to connect with those past events which carry unresolved feelings. Christos Gage did an excellent job of putting Buffy and Satsu in that position where they have to overlook the horrors of everyone they lost during their war against the army. Not something you easily forget and just one more thing Buffy needed to confront as a maturing adult who is moving on from those darker times.

              With that said, that this led to was something bigger. Where it would take more than Buffy, her friends, or the army to stop what the demon lords are unleashing upon the earth. It would take Buffy and Spike both convincing the vampire community that they should help fight the invasions. When it comes to that meeting it hits you hard as to who they would be confronting about this deal. Mainly after you probably did question a certain page atop with a character we haven’t seen in quite some time. Harmony and Vicky represent two opposing factions of the vampires and being the first time we’ve seen them in the same room together they have come a long way since last either have appeared. Positions of power, authority, and have also seemed to have gone through some maturity themselves. Their development is entertaining and yet also important when decisions made from this point are taken seriously.

              Buffy and Spike having to triumph in one-on-one battles with the finest vampires around was the best way to show this. One would assume that the fight would be the biggest challenge for these two, but the true challenge was just being in the same room as Harmony and Vicky. The humor in it all is that while the vampires hate what the demon lords are cooking up, they also hate Buffy and Spike enough to cohesively be a thorn in their side at the same time.

              The last page is not at all what you see coming because this certain someone Spike meets in a bar is the same person he had a little adventure with in his HC “Spike: Into The Light”.

              This issue got a little balance going on between intensity and humor. Rebekah Isaacs handled this very well starting with Satsu’s reappearance and the offer she had for Buffy and Spike. This brought up soured feelings about the past and the army and you could see that etched across their faces as they confronted those feelings to each other. Anyone who read Season 8-9 should understand those tragedies and why this was serious for the both of them to come to terms about. Then there’s the humor from both Harmony and Vicky who take advantaged of a making a deal to also start trouble for Spike and Buffy as a couple. The execution of emotion was there visually though you still feel just a bit disappointed that they haven’t completely overcome those bad habits they should have learned from. That said it was the expressive art overall that stood out which was needed for the story told and mood set for what comes next.

              Buffy The Vampire Slayer Season 10 #21 is a great start to what will keep us on track with this war against the demon lords. The situation has escalated and now all important players involved with this conflict have been established before a move is made.

              Comment


              • #37
                None of this explains why Buffy and Spike doing anything is going to convince the demons of the world anything. Especially in trial by combat.

                If this issue is supposed to set up the framework for the final run, they're in serious trouble because it all falls apart once you actually think about it. So much so you suspect something more is going on behind the military and Harm/Vicki's motives. That would be fine except DH has never come through.

                There's also some inconsistent character stuff. Buffy is all over the place regarding Angel. She wouldn't even look at him for a season, now she defends him, except that defense really just seems like Gage talking because she couldn't possibly know about him being possessed when Pearl and Nash killed the slayers. Just as Vicki and Harm really couldn't know anything about Buffy and Spike. You'd also have thought the sex cracks would've died down after the Giles issue, but no.

                Plotwise, the military needing Buffy and Spike makes little sense. Actually it makes so sense. They're one slayer and one vampire in a world full of them and they're not even the best at fighting. The only way this possibly could work is they have ulterior motives themselves and are trying to get closer to the book. The military not interested in rewriting the rules of magic? No way.

                Spoiler:
                The next issue's cover has Willow talking to them, so maybe there actually is more to it.


                After a decent 20, 21 is a huge letdown that relies too much on joking about S8 than showing us why these characters should be our focus.

                Comment


                • #38
                  I read my copy online this morning and right now feel as if I had watched someone take a sledgehammer to a delicate Christmas ornament. Repeatedly. And then some. And some more!

                  Can they bludgeon the audience over the head any more more to make it blatantly obvious that Spike and Buffy are DOOOOOOMED?

                  Smash 1: Have one of Buffy's exes show up. At least Spike is acting more guy-pervy about the lesbian sex than perturbed by Satsu's appearance (page 5)
                  Smash 2: Verbally bring up even more of Buffy's exes in one panel, namely Angel and Riley (page 6)
                  Smash 3: Bring up one of Spike's exes for a change by introducing Harmony as the mastermind behind the vampire challenge (page 9)
                  Smash 4: Have Harmony taunt Spike for 5 pages that he won't be able to hold on to Buffy (pages 14-18)
                  Smash 5: Have Vicky taunt Buffy for 4 pages that she'll grow tired of Spike and kick him out (pages 19-22)
                  Smash 6: Have Satsu ask Buffy and Spike if everything is okay with them (page 23)
                  Smash 7: Introduce another romantic interest for Spike in the shape of Dylan (page 24)

                  I'm as Spuffy as they come, but please, can we have some non-Spuffy plot again, like something about Willow, ghost-Anya, Xander, Dawn or Giles?!

                  #21 was bad. Even the vamp trials were just used as a foil for the incessant monologuing why Spuffy can't and won't work. At this point I almost don't care if they stay together or split up. Just please make the pain stop already!

                  Only upside: loved the artwork! As usual Rebekah delivers a lovely Buffy and Spike plus kittens, the combat panels were nicely balanced, and her Harmony is deliciously blase and arrogant-looking.
                  Smile, listen, agree - and then do whatever the f**k you wanted to do anyway... (Robert Downey jr.)

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                  • #39
                    There is something that has been bugging me since the preview pages came out: Buffy's bedroom. At first I thought it had to be Spike's bedroom, since two of the cats are there and other things, but then it is obviously that they are in the girls apartment, right?. I went back to check # 20 and the room looks completely different. I get that different artists would have different takes, and it is not too relevant to the plot, but considering how the room is shown in subsequent issues, this feels like lack of continuity.

                    Or maybe I missed something?

                    And well, even though the cage-fighting was kind of fun (especially since the art was so good), the whole Harmony and Vicky asking specifically for Buffy and Spike, and apparently not because they needed them to convince the vamps to support the Army (I think they would have been able to persuade their communities anyway), but because they wanted to play them a little, have some fun and ultimately... break them up? Or plant the seed of their relationship's doom, anyway.... Which, really, shouldn't be necessary... I don't see any other reason for the whole fiasco. When the two vamps do the "high five" thing at the end, it feels more like if it was about successfully screwing up with Buffy and Spike's minds, not the Army thing.

                    Considering the arc's title, and how next issue hints problems between Willow and Buffy, could this all be part of a more complicated plan to weaken Buffy's relationships with what her enemies would consider his two more powerful allies? The idea of Harmony and Vicky, or even some Military fraction, working with the Big Bads is not unlikely at all.

                    Again, just trying to make sense of this issue.

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                    • #40
                      I'd have to assume it's meant to be Buffy's. Why would Satsu go to the guys' apartment? Probably just changed due to the artist.

                      Or perhaps, after the last issue with the bathroom, they are living together?
                      Last edited by HardlyThere; 19-11-15, 06:52 PM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Rihannon View Post
                        Considering the arc's title, and how next issue hints problems between Willow and Buffy, could this all be part of a more complicated plan to weaken Buffy's relationships with what her enemies would consider his two more powerful allies? The idea of Harmony and Vicky, or even some Military fraction, working with the Big Bads is not unlikely at all.
                        I haven't reread it yet but I remember thinking that it was highly likely that Harmony and Vicky were working with someone else. I think there is a good chance that the sculptor is attempting to coordinate all of this to distract Buffy and break the team up.

                        I can't quite make this work I hasten to say, but I have wondered whether Dylan is a siren. The Mistress had Xander and Spike at her place and the sirens obviously could 'know' some of their inner wishes for a partner so perhaps they were able to gain greater access to their minds/memories once they were tranced? I just can't make any sense out of Dylan being there, managing to successfully stalk Spike all the way to a totally different city that she had no reason to connect him with all these years later. And unless Christos is intending to rewrite the basic history in the canonical title, he's a guy she knew for just a couple of days. It just seems either totally weak plotting or reeeeally suspicious. If they are wanting Spike distracted and questioning his relationship pressing on his insecurities will be easier with someone he is going to somewhat trust. Harmony was supposed to set the seeds (as flimsy and dubious as I think they were), but Dylan may then twist the knife. We'll see how it goes. If she is simply uber-stalker there is no doubt knife twisting will be her agenda anyway, just before she boils the kittens. But the latest covers seems to show the Mistress trying to pull Spike under with her siren call so it could be related?? As I said, I can't quite make it work with Dylan turning up so long ago and leaving the message at the bar, that would be one overly complicated/delayed plan to try and appear genuine. But then it was the same issue as the sirens. Equally though, super-detective uber-stalker status isn't much easier to swallow.
                        Last edited by Stoney; 19-11-15, 08:05 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Oh! The kittens!! Please, not the kitties!!!

                          Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                          It just seems either totally weak plotting or reeeeally suspicious.
                          I will be generous here and go with "reeeally suspicious".

                          I like the idea of Dylan being a siren, but they would have to come up with some explanation for this, and if someone can, in fact, become a siren (which would work nicely with the verse's metaphors, I suppose). Unless she was already a siren when Spike first met her.

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                          • #43
                            Oh I meant that it isn't really Dylan but is a siren taking her form, gleaned from his memories. Basically the same way that the sirens in the same issue she appeared at the end of conned Spike and Xander in the bar.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Stoney View Post
                              Oh I meant that it isn't really Dylan but is a siren taking her form, gleaned from his memories. Basically the same way that the sirens in the same issue she appeared at the end of conned Spike and Xander in the bar.
                              Oh, yes... of course.

                              But, you know, Dylan being an actual siren would explain a lot.

                              I mean, why else would just-souled!Spike even consider engaging in a relationship with someone that wasn't Buffy at that point of the story?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Because DH doesn't give a fig about continuity? In the same book he has his coat and can hit people without the chip firing.

                                That said, it would be a silly coincidence she shows up just in time for Harm and Vicki to start their Let's Break Up Spike And Buffy plot. This thing gets more contrived the more you reread it.

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