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Angel & Faith # 13 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

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  • Angel & Faith # 13 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

    I haven't seen any advanced reviews yet but I'm opening the thread since the issue is out tomorrow.

  • #2
    A&F 10.13 bullet points and analysis

    * It’s very jarring that Angel and Eldre Koh don’t fight. During the TV series, it’d be fine for the ending of A&F 10.12 to be an act break but such a thing wouldn’t have been an episode break. This was a month-long wait for essentially nothing.

    - That Koh didn’t even hit Angel back could be justified by Angel’s blow ‘snapping Koh out of it’ and that seems to be what happened.

    * I am satisfied that Koh makes it known to Angel that Koh would have beaten Angel in a fight. That’s pretty much the opposite of Spike’s in A&F S9 seeming to imply that Uncursed Angel could have defeated the combined forces of Spike, Faith, and Nadira and Co. as if Uncursed Angel is somehow at the power level of a being like Glorificus, Full-powered Illyria, or Willow with at least BtVS S6 Dark Willow-level powers.

    * It must be said that Willow could probably simply mind-walk in Winifred Burkle – probably with Eldre Koh as well – and get the answers Koh seeks. In addition, maybe Willow could have brought Spike along as well so both Fred and Illyria doesn’t feel as threatened. This whole situation with Fred-Illyria would have been much better dealt with by the Scoobies.

    * Angel’s telling Koh to ‘let it go’ regarding Koh’s wanting to talk to Illyria is probably Angel’s concerning himself more with Fred and not caring much about Koh’s problems.

    * Is Rory the bartender implying to Angel that Angel can kick Koh out of Magic Town and/or is Rory hinting to Angel that Angel should kill Koh?

    * How much is Faith making and/or how much is she getting from Giles that she can ‘get a place’ in London? London is more expensive than Manhattan.

    * Um, Giles is alive. The Scoobies have experience regarding possessions and whatnot. Willow is a powerful magical being. Why doesn’t Faith suggest to Fred that Fred go see the Scoobies? Instead, Faith bizarrely decides to wants Fred to be a ‘lab rat’ of Zane Industries. Has Faith forgotten about the Initiative? It’s not as if Faith knows Reese Zane that well and it’s not as if Faith knows exactly all of what Zane Industries is doing.

    - I assume Angel partly doesn’t object much to Fred’s being a ‘lab rat’ of Zane Industries because he’s trying get back in Faith’s good graces. That and he doesn’t want to risk losing Fred to the Scoobies (if he actually thought of Willow and Co. being able to help Fred).

    * So, in A&F S10, Angel doesn’t want Fred being referred to as “a specimen” by a Zane Industries scientist. Yet in BtVS S8, AngelTwilight did what he did including trying to keep SuperBuffy in Twilight and let the entire Earth and all its life be destroyed.

    * WOW. I hope that the comics aren’t actually trying to say that Nadira was wrong in A&F S9 to want to kill Angel.

    - Nadira knows Angel’s responsible for her Slayer squad being slaughtered. I don’t remember if she knows about what AngelTwilight did in Twilight.

    * Um, what? Nadira’s getting magical powers and being happy is simply that. Why does she consider her situation regarding how she wanted revenge applies to Koh? Maybe she simply wants him to ‘work for her’ in Magic Town.

    * It’s funny for high school dropout Faith to say to Angel (who never went to college) “Science is our friend.”

    * Eldre Koh’s being counseled by Angel and Nadira seems to be another ‘Angel helps Faith in AtS’ thing. Buffy, Spike, etc. could have easily gotten Koh to ‘let go of his quest for vengeance’ and it would have made more sense than Koh’s getting such advice from the guy who was AngelTwilight and a woman who doesn’t even know where her powers come from and doesn’t know actually why she has them.

    * Illyria would have and should have immediately dusted Angel. He essentially tried to kill her. She probably knows he was AngelTwilight.

    * Again, Angel is being either very delusional and/or very stupid. He’s essentially right to Illyria’s face trying to kill her by trying to talk to Fred so that Fred will be on the ‘outside’ again.

    * Illyria could have easily decapitated Angel yet she merely backhand slaps him hard enough that he goes flying into a car.

    * So, um, there’s around zero tension that Illyria killed Eldre Koh’s family. Illyria is a popular character, she’s more popular than Fred, and Koh while an interesting character doesn’t seem to be a popular character, certainly not on the level of Illyria.

    * Illyria didn’t use time pockets so maybe she doesn’t have her full powers. Anyway, her fights with Angel, Faith, and Reese Zane’s security and the upcoming fight with Koh aren’t interesting. Illyria should be able to easily take them all on. It would have actually been interesting if Illyria were in BtVS S10. We could get a hint at what is canon from IDW regarding Spike-Illyria, and Buffy and Co. would probably be able to ‘handle’ Illyria and we could see Illyria be humbled and maybe have her join the Scoobies or go off in her own comic book.


    * Sierra Hahn’s answer regarding the Dylan question regarding whether she fits in canon is not only that Dark Horse doesn’t technically call Into the Light canon but it seems that maybe that one page of Dylan is all she’s going to appear in the comics.

    - Side note: I do like that Sierra says, “it reminds us that Spike has a life that isn’t all about the Scoobies, or Dru, or Angel.” and that she listed Dru before Angel. The biggest wasted opportunity of ‘sane Dru’ is that she never interacted with Spike.


    • #3
      Not a lot to say, things are just starting to be laid down. I thought this wasn’t the strongest writing VG has done and the art doesn’t do much for me. Angel looks like he has styled his hair to look like a porcupine, although I do like the art for Fred.

      I felt that with her history, although it was acknowledged, it would have been better to see Fred questioning more thoroughly their methods/testing intentions in the lab scene. The lead researcher’s attitude seemed to match concerns about Zane with his reference to Fred as a ‘specimen’. Reese did seem to be wanting more restraint shown though so perhaps if we do get the evil pharmaceutical company plot it will be specific employees rather than anything from the top down. Too early to tell.

      Nadira and Angel both seem to be genuinely trying to help out Koh and I liked his revelation that his focus had in part been about avoiding his grief. I’m not convinced the magic isn’t manipulating the situation to try and get Koh to take out Illyria as her presence unsettles it so much. That could explain why Illyria is behaving as if she has no memories of her past interactions with people, she speaks to Angel as if he was a stranger. Plus her voicing is off too, that could just be because she is hard to voice, but it could become a plot point if something is trying to push buttons and controlling things so that she provokes Koh.

      A couple of odd comments. I like the young couple that keep cropping up around Nadira’s, it is just a nice touch to be gaining some regular background characters and with Rory too I think VG does this well. I have to say there was a huge setting issue though in the gunfire on Illyria. This is England guys, you don’t get to carry guns around like that.

      And not a surprise, but I was pleased we have it finally stated in the letters that they wouldn’t technically call ITL canon. I don’t think that doesn’t mean they aren’t going to use Dylan more though MikeB, although it does seem to downplay it a bit.
      Last edited by Stoney; 01-04-15, 01:52 PM.


      • #4
        I enjoyed the issue, even though it was obvious that Illyria's role in destroying Koh's family would come out quite quickly, after the reader had had it confirmed what most of us suspected during Season 9. Illyria's character disappoints, slightly, because the reset undoes all the progress the character made through AtS 5, After the Fall and Season 9, so she comes over as being a little one-dimensional. Perhaps this will change, going forward and I suppose that it is valid to investigate Illyria's back History. I continue to enjoy the return of Fred. I'm not quite as involved in this story, as much as the Buffy title, but find the Magic Town setting and the challenges it is presenting to Angel, interesting.


        • #5
          A review of todays' Angel & Faith # 13.

          Comic Book Review: Angel & Faith Season 10 #13

          by Jideobi Odunze

          Things have gotten very urgent now that we know the truth behind what happened to Koh, and why keeping his distance from Fred is vital. All these things that you could have found either random or questioning coming full circle and you appreciate that considering this is all a part of something bigger. It’s almost never about the fights in this series, the characters come first. That is always what you look forward to most when at this very moment this is the closest we have gotten to that core cast from the show since it ended.

          Angel & Faith Season 10 #13 felt like it was all about the interactions and dynamic between the characters. Getting inside the head of Koh was a big part of this. As stated in the review before, Koh has always come off as that one-dimensional character who was all about honor. Now that means something when confronted by his past and the key to unlocking what has driven him on this path of vengeance. In general what makes this story arc standout so far is the liberty taken in putting characters like Koh, Fred and Nadira outside of their comfort zones. That is what makes a character interesting in this kind of world where there is much still not understood with the new magic. It is what made the dynamic between Nadira and Koh a wise choice when both are people who have gone through the same situations and need that familiar face to emphasize what that mindset will do to you.

          Finally getting a bit more depth for Nadira is part of what makes this issue special. There has and always has been a shroud of mystery surrounding her character since she connected with the magic. Of course not everyone will know about her from before that time if they haven’t read all of Angel & Faith, though that little bit is more than enough to give reason to care more about her place in what’s going on right now. Particularly when the presence of Illyria can cause her this kind of pain.

          Things were fairly consistent with the interior artwork in this issue. Two things did manage to stand out with that said. First being of course another humorous moment between Faith, Fred, Sophie and Lavinia. It’s times like that where you are glad this is a series where you remember that these are people foremost. Which leads into the facial expressions and structure which is done very well when there is the right perspective. That is something seen done very well knowing you can’t sell the tone of the story if the art does not say the same thing. How Will Conrad draws Illyria is more appealing than how others have captured her in the past. She has that intimidating presence, looks less timid than Fred, and almost looks like a completely different person. This is where the colors shine as well because it takes attention to detail to properly pull off that design for her suit. That and the blue hue added to Fred’s skin to symbolize that Illyria is in control.

          Angel & Faith Season 10 #13 is the start of big things to come. What was pretty much inevitable Victor Gischler wasted no time getting into when the urgency is met. Anything can happen from here when what everyone has been trying to avoid blows up right in their faces at the same time.

          I should have my copy later in the week.


          • #6
            Another review of Angel & Faith # 13.I have my copy and will post some thoughts either tonight or tomorrow.I did like the issue.


            Angel and Faith Season Ten #13 Recap

            April 1, 2015 at 2:00 pm
            Kimberly Lynn Workman

            This issue of the comic felt more like a bridge than a progression, but at least we’re getting somewhere with Koh and his quest for vengeance. The surrounding characters, however, are currently functioning more like a support system. But with the revelation of the last panel, Koh is going to need all the support he can get.

            Note: This recap may contain spoilers!

            We focus on Koh for the majority of the issue, with him repeating his drive to seek vengeance for his family’s deaths. I understand his motivations, and it was nice to see him explore why he couldn’t let the past be the past. Even a single-minded quest has a multifaceted reason behind it. He admits to Nadira that if he lets go of his need for vengeance, he fears that all he’ll be left with is his loss and resulting grief over his family.

            The other side of the story is targeted toward Fred and the exploration of her secondary passenger by way of Illyria. But she is very much tied into Koh’s story and what he seeks. Illyria has knowledge as to what happened to Koh’s family, but allowing her out puts Fred in jeopardy. It seems like a no-win all around.

            What Fred does need is a way to deal with Illyria’s presence and perhaps figure out what exactly is going on in her mind. Faith takes her to Zane in order to use their resources for that very purpose. While Dr. Ellis, one of the researchers, sees her more like a potential experiment than a person, there’s also the possibility that they could uncover more data on what she’s going through. The problem becomes that the push for knowledge breaks the limits of safety, and the resulting outcome puts them all in danger.

            Illyria soon emerges, allowed to break free of her former confines and take full control over Fred’s body. She seems unstoppable, as she easily casts aside both Angel and Faith when they try to control her, or at least touch base with Fred again. It seems that Koh may be the only hope of an equal battle with Illyria, but he too is soon thrown off track by her revelation. She knows who killed his family, because she’s responsible. We leave the issue with his reaction shot, left to ponder what he will do with this knowledge. Will Koh destroy Illyria for her actions? Or will he die trying? We already know that the magic is afraid of her. It looks like everyone else should be, too.

            Rating: 3 / 5 Stars


            • #7
              I got my copy of Angel & Faith # 13,Part III of "United" on Friday but didn't have a chance to post some comments until now.

              Overall I liked the issue.

              I rally liked Angel and Koh's interaction as well as Koh's interaction with Nadira.I still have trouble placing a finger on her though.Which I guess is the point right now.To have her so mysterious.

              It's not really a surprise that Illyria killed Koh's family.I think many of us have been suspecting it since last season in Buffy.What will be interesting is what happens next hence that being the cliffhanger.

              I also liked Faith's and Fred's interaction but boy,that probably was not a smart move going to Zane for help since they unlocked Illyria.

              As for Illyria,she does feels re-round back to hpw she was when we first met her in season 5 of Angel.Will be interesting to see where this goes.

              So a pretty decent issue IMO.


              • #8
                When Illyria comes out, is she still in Fred's Physical appearance? I am unable to see pictures. Can somebody please write out the scenes with her in them?


                • #9
                  I don't have the time to write the scenes out but she changes Fred's physical appearance to be Illyria again when she takes control.