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Angel & Faith # 12 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

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  • Angel & Faith # 12 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers)

    The new issue is out tomorrow.

    First advanced review for Angel & Faith # 12.

    http://www.unleashthefanboy.com/comi...-review/131802

    Angel & Faith Season 10 #12 Review

    By John McCubbin on Tuesday, March 3rd, 2015

    Angel and Faith are both now residing in Magic Town! But does this mean that the duo are finally back together? Read on to find out.

    The official description from Dark Horse:

    Though she’s returned to London, Faith isn’t planning to join up with Team Angel again. But circumstances will throw the Slayer and the vampire together when someone searching for Illyria brings his quest through Magic Town . . .

    Angel Faith Season 10 12 variant Angel & Faith Season 10 #12 ReviewFanboys and fangirls around the world had to have rejoiced at the developments in the last issue, as though it was awesome to see Angel and Faith do their own things respectively, they are much more interesting collectively than apart. That thought does however need to be placed on hold for one second, as though the two characters are sharing the same location (Magic Town, London), it would appear that they’re still going to be split up, with Faith in no mood to be “sidekicking,” for Angel.

    It’s this latter statement that has let me down a little from Victor Gishler‘s script, as though I agree that there needs to be some level of separation, this seems like a step backwards rather than forwards. Nonetheless, the writer does give us some interesting moments, with the backstory of Eldre Koh and revelation from Fred allowing for some captivating moments. There’s also a little excitement, with the culminating sequences leading into something that shows a lot of promise.

    The artwork on this issue is however once again faultless, with the ultra detailed pencils, and slick inkwork of Will Conrad being as pleasing to the eye as ever before. Capturing the likeness of these characters superbly, whilst crafting this into a smooth, fluid series of layouts, the artist certainly knows how to create drama. He also delivers some intense action, as well as wonderful scenery, as though the former is a little sparse compared to normal, it still adds depth. The colours of Michelle Madsen also continues to add a vivid overtone, with the mixture of dark and punchy colours allowing for great texture.

    Angel & Faith Season 10 #12 may not be one of the best issues the series has produced, proving to be rather the opposite. It does however do enough to intrigue, and given the fact this is one of the poorer issue, that’s only testament to the series strength on the whole.

    OUR RATING
    7
    + Intriguing backstory to Eldre Koh.
    + Magnificent art from Will Conrad.
    - The whole Illyria angel was a little predictable.
    - The choice to keep Angel and Faith separated isn’t one that wins me over.

  • #2
    I've read the issue and unlike the reviewer above, I liked Faith's stepping away from 'sidekicking' Angel. I think it's a neccessary part of her growth and she needs to be an equal to Angel, which she wasn't, imo, last Season. I like the return of Fred, but Illyria seems to have lost the growth that Maria Huehner and Brian Lynch gave her at IDW and the development she had in Buffy, Season 9. I regret that, but maybe the growth was due to Fred's memories and now she's reset to the Illyria we met in AtS 5. This will make things extremely difficult for Fred !
    Nice art, as usual.

    Comment


    • #3
      I had a quick read through. I like Faith keeping a distance in the first instance too. It would have made no sense after her need to step away if she had just wanted to fall straight back into the way things had been. It worked well and with them being in the same place now there is plenty of opportunity for them to meet and for their dynamic to grow. I think it is all good. And duh duh duuuuuuH to this line from Reese : “It’s not like we’re dissecting people here.” To which my thought was - 'YET!! Yet I tell you! (if you aren't really already, urgh!)'

      I really liked the flashback Koh stuff (despite being briefly confused by thinking the guy that gave him the fire was also the one betraying him - hat issues!!). I thought at first he was mentioning having fought with Illyria 'back in the day' because I had forgotten he was at the Deeper Well (also presumably why he commented on her changed appearance). His further comment that she hadn't mentioned that she was in a vessel was odd, presumably he would 'recognise' her from the old days and we are seeing that Illyria was hiding the truth from him. I did also wonder who had told him he should speak to Illyria "I was told Illyria had useful information. It's why I sought her out." Anyway, there is certainly a lot more to explore here for sure.

      I have to say I was a little disappointed that it did turn out that Illyria was responsible for his family's death and imprisonment, too predictable. Possibly it will turn out to be more complicated with Illyria's complete memory? It was nice to see the flash of Illyria, and I loved the art there, although I don't see why she wouldn't just be consuming Fred again if she had been reset. Obviously they can just make up whatever reason they feel like but it would be nice if it had some structured logic with it when/if it comes to light.

      The most interesting panel as far as I was concerned (and specifically if you weigh in Nadira saying last issue that the magic town magic, her buddy, didn't like the other magic encroaching and seemed to react to Fred/Illyria) was Nadira's manner when she pressed Fred to tell them Illyria's memory of what happened with Koh. She comes across as angry/threatening in her tone/posture. Plus it was clearly followed by a wary/surprised beat from Angel and then very obviously specifically covered over with her more pleasantly toned "Any friend of Angel's is a friend of mine." As dodgy as dissection I'm telling you.
      Last edited by Stoney; 04-03-15, 11:01 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        http://www.fandompost.com/2015/03/04...rt-two-review/

        Angel & Faith Season 10 Issue #12: United Part Two Review

        Posted by Kory Cerjak
        March 4, 2015

        Koh, Angel, and Illyria enter a room…

        Creative Staff:
        Script: Victor Gischler
        Art: Will Conrad
        Colors: Michelle Madsen
        Letters: Richard Starkings and Jimmy Betancourt

        What They Say:
        “United Part Two”

        The appearance of Fred Burkle wandering the streets of Magic Town has Angel concerned and absolutely determined to keep Fred safe and in control of herself—though the Old One Illyria is still within her and trying to get out. Another surprise for Angel is Slayer Faith Lehane’s return to Magic Town. Having parted somewhat awkwardly, the two are working together again: to help Fred and to deal with the sudden arrival of Eldre Koh, a demon bent on vengeance and seeking his friend Illyria.

        Content: (please note that content portions of a review may contain spoilers):
        It’s never easy not knowing what’s true and what’s false. The Eldre Koh we knew is still on his path for vengeance, but he shows a new face. He’s second guessing himself. He tells his story of becoming a Yataro, the highest warrior you can be as a Nitobe. You go on a rage for 30 days and 30 nights, returning exhausted and with days or perhaps weeks or memories gone. He might have returned to his town and killed the entirety of it. And his memory is clouded by the ritual. After his run in with Buffy, he’s questioning himself. Nadira says that revenge consumes you, and it does, but it’s not just a matter of revenge, but of honor. His people need to do this to regain what honor he can possibly have. The world is black and white to Koh where his vengeance is the light to strive to, but Buffy and Nadira give a much more gray perspective. His entire worldview is shatter by two little girls, from his point of view.

        And Fred is back. Illyria looms in the body of Fred, ready to take over at any moment of weakness, but Fred is back. And she’s fighting. They were both “reset” by the seed’s destruction and it allowed Fred to regain control of her body, however temporary or permanent it may be. But Koh needs Illyria, the one who said she had information on his revenge. The information she has is disturbing. She was the one that set up Koh’s town—the Yatara’s—complete extinction. She wanted to control the Nitobe, but they would bow to no God. She manipulated them like a puppet master and got what she wanted in the end, at the cost of Koh’s life. Illyria is perhaps another redemption, swayed by what little sway Fred has in her body. She’s doing the right thing or maybe just wanted a new vessel. Old ones can’t die, but her vanity has waned in these twilight hours. Or maybe she just feels indebted to one who helped in the Deep Well.

        Faith, however, wants none of it. She’s not here for Angel, Fred, or Koh. She’s here to be a consultant for Reese Zane and consulting she will do…with maybe a drink or two during the off hours.

        In Summary:
        This was a Faith-light issue and I’m glad for it. The way they’re juggling the Angel and Faith storylines is pretty much perfect in this issue, which is a godsend since I’ve been complaining about pretty much only that in these Angel and Faith issues this season. What this issue did great wasn’t big character moments or plot progression, but huge reveals and laying seeds. I loved the stuff with Illyria and Koh and it only makes you think and rethink their own motivations throughout this recent run. Think and rethink like Angel and Faith have done for a long time.

        Content Grade: A-
        Art Grade: A-

        Released By: Dark Horse
        Release Date: March 4, 2015
        MSRP: $3.50

        http://www.geekedoutnation.com/comic...-season-10-12/

        Comic Book Review: Angel & Faith Season 10 #12



        Big things have been coming in this series as Faint and Angel finally meet again, but Fred makes her way back into their lives again. A big shocker that you didn’t expect to see coming. One which certainly has you split in reactions because you love Fred as a fan of the show, yet you also like Illyria based on how she changed her ways up to that valiant sacrifice to bring magic back into the world.

        This was an interesting issue just for the fact that of all the time Koh has appeared in the Buffyverse, he always came off as that anti-hero bent on revenge. Nothing more to him beyond that and doing whatever he thought was most honorable in the moment. So it is good to see that someone like Victor Gischler could take that leap and dig into this character of mystery’s past. Koh’s story was solid and made sense of what has sent him on this path of vengeance. Even how he found his way into the thick of the Buffyverse in general made sense by the end of his story. We now know how Koh got his powers, who he supposedly seeks for revenge, who he really seeks for revenge, and how that brings things full circle with what is happening at this time. It shows that Victor Gischler has a plan, and knows how to use specific elements from the Buffyverse necessary to move the story along. As a whole this was the best way to take advantage of the effects of the new magic in the world.

        Which brings us to Fred as she struggles to keep Illyria at bay. It’s good to see that there aren’t any tricks with that situation. Anyone could have easily thrown some twist that Illyria was always in control or something ridiculous like that, but this is a genuine struggle between a mortal and a god for a single body. Again this creating that divide where you either like Fred or you like Illyria. Someone like me might want to see what happens when Illyria has control just to see if the new magic in the world restored her powers. Last we saw of Illyria before she sacrificed herself was as powerless as she could be. It was a nice side of her to see, though she is also badass when powered up.

        The interior artwork in this issue is consistent with the quality of the last issue of Angel & Faith. What stands out is the recollection of what happened in Koh’s past. It was intense and creative in terms of seeing life for Koh’s people during a time where the Old Gods roamed the Earth. All the action was pretty much through Koh’s past, though you enjoy it because this is a side to him where you see what he is really capable of when not thinking about honor. Then speaking of the Old Gods, seeing the true form of Illyria was quite a sight. You get so used to seeing her in Fred’s body that you make the assumption that her true form may have looked something humanoid in shape, though we see in this issue that this is not the case. You see just why she is someone who intimidates and where all that power comes from. Illyria is a true terror and Will Conrad captured that perfectly.

        Angel & Faith Season 10 #12 is a solid issue that puts the focus on two unlikely character returns in the series. It is simply enjoyable that you can go into Angel & Faith knowing that it is not always going to be about those two specifically, and much of your favorite characters have just a good of a chance as anyone else to possibly make an appearance. One that matters which is most important.

        Comment


        • #5
          A&F 10.12 bullet points and analysis



          * Artwork: Winifred Burkle doesn’t look like Amy Acker.


          * I don’t see how it makes sense that Fred could ‘hold back’ Illyria.


          * I’m not sure why Fred would refer to Illyria as a “god”.


          * Eldre Koh is from another dimension with an advanced civilization (largely seems to be like the Spartans except with more advanced technology).


          * I wonder if Cursed Angel would be afraid of Eldre Koh if Nadira had not recently demonstrated how powerful she is.


          * Faith has a relatively ‘ancient’ and crappy cell phone.


          * Faith doesn’t know how powerful Nadira is. Why wouldn’t Faith consider that Fred would probably be better off with Buffy and Co? Koh at least has some connection with the Scoobies – I don’t remember whether Faith knows that – and the Scoobies are far more powerful than Angel is and they would probably better know how to deal with Fred’s situation than Angel would.


          * It continues to be disappointing that Faith doesn’t consider that Angel should be subservient to her.


          * Cursed Angel seems to be threatened and anxious regarding his ‘place’ in Magic Town given that Faith’s within a day or so has already been to Rory’s and that Inspector Brandt’s already made contact with Faith.


          * Illyria killed Eldre Koh’s family and had him imprisoned. The conflict here is only interesting if Illyria is not going to be ‘brought forth’. Koh is obviously a bigger force in the fight against evil than Fred is but Illyria is a far bigger force against the fight against evil than Koh is.


          * I don’t recall Illyria in AtS s5 implying that she had wanted worshippers. She had an army and she was a conqueror. She never seemed to be like Jasmine. Although, I guess it could be possible that she became a conqueror after Koh’s people refused to worship her.


          * Illyria in the flashback of Koh’s planet doesn’t have weapons in her arms. She also doesn’t seem to have an army.


          * Wouldn’t Illyria want to kill Angel for trying to keep Fred ‘on the outside’? Cursed Angel doesn’t seem concerned about that. Would he still have acted similarly toward Fred if he didn’t know how powerful Nadira is?


          * After hearing Eldre Koh’s story, Cursed Angel seem to consider that he can take Koh in a fight. Amy Madison’s not easily killing Angel is beyond ridiculous. If Angel beats Koh in a fight, that would be beyond ridiculous.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by MikeB View Post
            * I don’t see how it makes sense that Fred could ‘hold back’ Illyria.
            Why not? Ben was able to hold back Glory.

            Originally posted by MikeB View Post
            * I’m not sure why Fred would refer to Illyria as a “god”.
            From "Underneath": Illyria: I lived seven lives at once. I was power in the ecstasy of death. I was god to a god. Now... I'm trapped on a roof... just one roof, in this time and this place with an unstable human who drinks too much whiskey and called me a Smurf.

            Originally posted by MikeB View Post
            * I wonder if Cursed Angel would be afraid of Eldre Koh if Nadira had not recently demonstrated how powerful she is.
            Who is "Cursed Angel"? Angel with a soul, essentially?

            Originally posted by MikeB View Post
            * Faith has a relatively ‘ancient’ and crappy cell phone.
            She likes to keep it simple.

            Originally posted by MikeB View Post
            * Faith doesn’t know how powerful Nadira is. Why wouldn’t Faith consider that Fred would probably be better off with Buffy and Co? Koh at least has some connection with the Scoobies – I don’t remember whether Faith knows that – and the Scoobies are far more powerful than Angel is and they would probably better know how to deal with Fred’s situation than Angel would.
            Well, both Fred and Faith have been back for all of about an hour, so I don't know why Faith would be trying to get rid of Fred. They want to know what's going on with her and Fred is an old, dear friend to Angel...so, yea. Pretty obvious to me. Also, Faith knows the Scoobies have their own issues to deal with right now. I don't agree with you at all on this. Angel is the best suited character to help friend BECAUSE of his past with her.

            Originally posted by MikeB View Post
            * It continues to be disappointing that Faith doesn’t consider that Angel should be subservient to her.
            Wow. It's amazing that you don't recognize Faith's humanity and complex relationship with Angel.

            Originally posted by MikeB View Post
            * Illyria in the flashback of Koh’s planet doesn’t have weapons in her arms. She also doesn’t seem to have an army.
            I'm guessing that maybe Illyria imprisoned Koh's race and made them her army. Would be an interesting twist.

            Originally posted by MikeB View Post
            * Wouldn’t Illyria want to kill Angel for trying to keep Fred ‘on the outside’? Cursed Angel doesn’t seem concerned about that. Would he still have acted similarly toward Fred if he didn’t know how powerful Nadira is?
            I believe he would because he is noble and genuinely cares for Fred, which means putting himself at risk. You do know we're talking about Angel here, right? Mr. Altruism to the extreme?

            Originally posted by MikeB View Post
            * After hearing Eldre Koh’s story, Cursed Angel seem to consider that he can take Koh in a fight. Amy Madison’s not easily killing Angel is beyond ridiculous. If Angel beats Koh in a fight, that would be beyond ridiculous.
            Would you keep reading if he beats Koh?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by MikeB View Post

              * After hearing Eldre Koh’s story, Cursed Angel seem to consider that he can take Koh in a fight. Amy Madison’s not easily killing Angel is beyond ridiculous. If Angel beats Koh in a fight, that would be beyond ridiculous.
              Vampires with souls are kryptonite for Koh. He can take out a legion, but Spike and Angel can easily subdue him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Is Cursed Angel some new character?

                I'm missing a lot of the discussion due to use of the ignore function, but this name seems to keep coming up in people's quotes.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Cursed Angel is just how MikeB has taken to referring to Angel, so nothing missed at all.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Finally have my copy of Angel & Faith # 12,"United Part II."

                    I would have gotten my comics yesterday but Maryland had a snowstorm that pretty much shut everything down and warnings to stay off the roads unless you really had to be out.

                    I enjoyed the issue a lot.Glad to get Koh's backstory even though having Illyria be behind Koh's being imprisoned and families death was predictable.

                    Still liked it though.Also loved all the Fred and Angel interactions as well as Angel and Faith.Glad to see Faith will still have her own thing going even though she's reunited with Angel.

                    I'm also getting the creepy vibe off Nadira.

                    Thought the cliffhanger was a nice place to end on.Wonder how that talk between Angel and Koh will go.

                    So a very solid issue IMO.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      http://www.comicbookresources.com/co...k-horse-comics

                      Angel & Faith Season 10 #12

                      by Greg McElhatton, Reviewer

                      Considering that the two title characters were only reunited at the end of the previous issue, "Angel & Faith Season 10" has been a series that has succeeded in spite of the odds stacked against it. Victor Gischler, Will Conrad and Michelle Madsen continue to make it a fun series to read, and it's nice to see the comic in good hands. Even though the issue flags a tiny bit in the face of a huge exposition dump, there's still more than enough here to make this a good purchase.

                      While the reemergence of Fred -- who is struggling to stay free of Illyria -- is a big moment, "Angel & Faith Season 10" #12 veers away just a bit from that to finally explain the back story of supporting cast demon Eldre Koh. It connects with Fred/Illyria, so its emergence at this point in time makes sense. At the same time, though, Koh's probably been the least interesting aspect of "Angel & Faith Season 10" so far and having a huge spotlight on the character hasn't made him feel any more exciting.

                      That said, Gischler handles what's a somewhat necessary unloading of information as best he can, concentrating it all in one spot before moving on to the main story at hand. The downside is that it results in a lot more concentration on Koh than Fred and, considering what a compelling character Fred (and even Illyria) was in the past, it definitely reduces the overall excitement by just a bit. On the plus side, I like that Faith's own storylines aren't on hold, and we're learning a bit more about her employer amidst the Koh and Fred pages. Gischler also gives us a good reminder here that Illyria is a dangerous being, one that may have been on Angel's side in the past but, on some level, should not be trusted quite as much as one would otherwise assume. Koh's flashback isn't that compelling, but Illyria's flashback is full of menace.

                      Conrad and Madsen's art looks good here. One of the best things about the entire issue is that strange lizard-bird creature that Koh is riding in his flashback. The strange purple and blue feathers and fur just pop off of the page thanks to Conrad and Madsen, and it looks wonderfully alien while still having just a tiny connection to reality for readers to latch onto. In general, there's a lot to like from Conrad's work on the series, with fine ink lines to help detail every little dreadlock or tattoo, and backgrounds let us see even the grain on the wood floorboards. Add in some solid page construction -- characters are posed well and the panel-to-panel progression is easy to follow -- and it's a good looking book.

                      Even with everything slowing down a bit this month, "Angel & Faith Season 10" #12 is still a good comic. Now that the necessary exposition is over, I'm looking forward to the series hitting the ground running again next month to boot. All in all, this is a comic which could have easily crashed and burned with a new creative team but has instead been a pleasure to read month after month.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I’m all caught up.

                        Here’s my bullet points and analysis so I don’t repeat stuff: http://www.buffyforums.net/forums/sh...l=1#post703859 It’s post #5 on page 1.

                        I’m not going to respond to straw man arguments.

                        I’m going to try to avoid responding to speculation.




                        Shade of Pale

                        * Why should Illyria be happy that Fred is on the ‘outside’? Illyria’s character development post-“Not Fade Away” (A 5.22) doesn’t mean that she should suddenly not want to be in control of her life.



                        Stoney

                        Nadira's manner when she pressed Fred to tell them Illyria's memory of what happened with Koh. She comes across as angry/threatening in her tone/posture.
                        Towards Angel for trying to get Fred to stop talking about Fred’s knowledge of Illyria. Nadira likely wanted to know how much of a possible threat Illyria is and/or how much a fight between Eldre Koh and Illyria could affect Magic Town. Nadira wanted Fred to continue talking about Illyria. Nadira was being reasonable.



                        withoutpassion

                        * Ben was designed by the 2 other hell gods to keep Glorificus ‘inside’ him forever. Fred’s body had to be hallowed out merely to contain Illyria and her ‘shell’ wasn’t able to contain Illyria for very long given that Illyria burst in “Time Bomb” (A 5.19). I’m not sure it makes sense that the New Rules Magic should be able to change magic so much that Illyria can be contained within Fred with no significant damage (other than emotional) to Fred.


                        * It always seemed that Illyria’s saying “I was a god to a god” was referring to her being the ‘boss’ or whatever of an Old One. From AtS s5 and even in AtF, there was never any indication that Illyria actually ruled a dimension. Given how much Illyria bragged, that is a huge oversight from her.

                        Who is "Cursed Angel"? Angel with a soul, essentially?
                        No, it refers to Angel when the Gypsy curse is in effect.


                        * Given Faith has enough money, it simply doesn’t make sense for her to have “a relatively ‘ancient’ and crappy cell phone”.


                        * Faith wasn’t staying around Angel. Faith could have easily called Kennedy, called Ms. Zane, or simply given Fred a plane ticket herself. It’s not as if Cursed Angel doesn’t have “issues to deal with right now”. Fred would probably be safer in San Francisco than in Magic Town.


                        * My quote: “It continues to be disappointing that Faith doesn’t consider that Angel should be subservient to her.”

                        That’s because of BtVS S8.


                        * It’s easily argued that Faith’s “humanity” should have resulted in Angel’s death after BtVS 8.39. Faith in BtVS S8 continued to be haunted by hers murdering of the professor. Yet post-BtVS 8.39 was how it was.

                        You do know we're talking about Angel here, right? Mr. Altruism to the extreme?
                        Did you forget BtVS S8?

                        Would you keep reading if he beats Koh?
                        If Angel beats Eldre Koh in a ‘fair fight’, that would be far from the worst thing about post-BtVS 8.39; that doesn’t discount it wouldn’t make sense.



                        HardlyThere

                        * I don’t recall Spike easily subduing Eldre Koh.

                        Comment

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