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Angel & Faith # 11 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers]

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  • Angel & Faith # 11 Issue Discussion Thread(Full Spoilers]

    First advanced review for Angel & Faith # 11.

    Angel & Faith Season 10 Issue #11: United Part One Review

    Posted by Kory Cerjak
    February 3, 2015 at 11:02 AM

    Angel Faith Season 10 Issue 11 CoverReunited and it feels so good.

    Creative Staff:
    Script: Victor Gischler
    Art: Will Conrad
    Colors: Michelle Madsen
    Letters: Richard Starkings and Jimmy Betancourt

    What They Say:
    “United Part One”

    After a short term of employment with Deepscan, Faith is ready to return to London’s Magic Town—which she left in a hurry after Whistler’s magical virus spread through Hackney, and where Angel has been helping folks transformed by the virus, keeping the peace, and getting a little guidance himself from Nadira. Now the sudden appearance of Winifred Burkle has given Angel a little shock…

    Content: (please note that content portions of a review may contain spoilers):

    Faith’s back in London, now Magic Town, and so is Fred. And Eldre Koh. Magic Town is weird but it’s good to have everyone in the comic back in the same general area. It’s been kind of a mess both story-wise and thematically up until now with Angel and Faith’s stories never melding completely together. As this is just the first part of this arc, it’s hard to tell if it’ll work better now, but I have high hopes. They’re still doing that scene transition thing where Faith’s first line is on Angel’s last page. It still isn’t working great for me.

    There’s woefully little to talk about in this issue, though. Faith’s met up with Brandt and is heading up Zane’s security on a temporary basis. Both seem to be going well as Faith knows a lot about general magic stuff that isn’t the forte of Zane’s current personnel.

    Angel’s got barely any time to do anything, dealing with Fred’s re-arrival. As has been said, there’s no killing the old ones, just getting rid of them temporarily. Fred may be back, but Illyria is still inside of her…somewhere. The new magic is was messing with Illyria’s own when she reappeared in Buffy’s “Welcome to the Team” story.

    Nadira has a fantastic line in this issue, telling Faith that her quest for redemption is not perhaps what she should be seeking. Redemption is not what those who she wronged want. Sometimes, they’ll never forgive her. Sometimes, they don’t even blame her and are better off for Faith’s actions. In Nadira’s case, that’s probably true.

    In Summary:

    This was a pretty great setup issue. I’m looking forward to what will happen now that Angel and Faith, long in the same comic, are in the same area. Their parallel stories of redemption never melded as being separate and Magic Town is too weird for those two not to be connected. There wasn’t much meat on these bones, but it’s but a fledgling.

    Content Grade: B+
    Art Grade: A-

    Released By: Dark Horse
    Release Date: February 4, 2015
    MSRP: $3.50
    Last edited by BAF; 03-02-15, 08:50 PM.

  • #2
    Being a Fred fan, I throughly enjoyed this issue ! While I don't think that they have really covered their bases with Fred's return, after it was made very clear in AtF that Fred could never return, using the word 're-set' is a bit too vague. Still, I'm just so gald to see her back. Finally, we get to see the story I've wanted to see for a while. Fred and Illyria sharing the same body and I've half a wish to see Spike over in Angel and Faith for an issue to know that Fred has returned. Only for an issue, though, because I'm not quite ready for another round of Angel and Spike bringing out the worst in each other for a while yet. I also think that now would be a great time for Gunn to make a visit to London and a bit of a reformation of AI ! I feel a bit of anticipation for that story !

    I love the art. Will Conrad is superb !


    • #3
      Won't be reading the issue till later in the month but I'm also very excited by the return of the real, actual Fred. It feels like righting a huge wrong to me.


      • #4
        A&F 10.11 bullet points and analysis

        I’m not going to separate the bullet points and analysis into separate sections given that Faith Lehane is now in London again.

        * Winfred Burkle being back obviously gives Cursed Angel someone who doesn’t know what he did in BtVS S8, although given how okay Charles Gunn and Connor are with Cursed Angel, there probably isn’t much difference anyway.

        * Rack’s not being dead and Warren Meers not being dead weren’t actually beneficial to Willow Rosenberg. They were evil when she killed them and their being back resulting in their hurting Willow. It’s obvious that the world was better off with them dead.

        The whole Rupert Giles resurrection is mostly beneficial to Cursed Angel. Everything about that makes around zero sense and mostly is there to try to make the readership think better of Angel.

        Now Winifred Burkle’s being ‘resurrected’ is mostly beneficial Cursed Angel.

        Nadira’s situation is obviously beneficial to Cursed Angel.

        In most ways, Cursed Angel has actually been mostly rewarded for his actions in BtVS S8.

        In comparison, it’s implied that William Pratt became a vampire partly to be able to cure his mother. She was dying of tuberculosis. The aftermath of that had haunted him until in “Lies My Parents Told Me” (B 7.17). Spike doesn’t get to resurrect Anne Pratt.

        In comparison, it’s implied that Joyce Summers’ brain tumor is the result of the monks creating Dawn Summers. Buffy’s being the Slayer could handle the new memories and the change to her brain. Hank Summers had less that needed changing to his brain and so he’s relatively fine. Joyce brain couldn’t handle the changes and that resulted in her death. Buffy doesn’t get to resurrect Joyce. Joyce’s death resulted in Buffy’s needing to quit college. It resulted in Buffy’s working fast food. It resulted in Buffy’s later being a coffee waitress. Buffy’s current financial situation is affected by Joyce’s death.

        The way the comics are being written, I almost expect Liam’s family to be brought back to life, hug it out with Cursed Angel, forgive Cursed Angel for killing them and for killing everyone else in Galway, and for Liam’s father to tell Cursed Angel that he couldn’t be more proud of Cursed Angel.

        * Eldre Koh can obviously be the ‘champion’ of Magic Town. So can Groosalugg, Slayers, etc. Cursed Angel was never actually needed in Magic Town and thus there was no good reason why he wasn’t killed even after he helped bring Rupert Giles back. And the comics seem to think it’s perfectly okay to turn Amy Madison perhaps permanently into a rat even though her crimes and evildoing are microscopic compared to Angel’s.

        * The London townhouse – who still owns that? Anyway, it seems Sophronia Fairweather and Lavinia Fairweather put up a big Jesus Christ painting in the townhouse. Maybe they don’t want Angel in the townhouse anymore.

        * Does Faith have money? She’s going to get her own place in London? London is very expensive.

        * Nadira is concerned that Fred’s “arrival has stirred up the magic”.

        But nothing bad happened to the world after Rupert Giles was brought back. That was fine. Innocent Fred being back? Bad news according to Nadira.

        Regarding Nadira’s concern that Fred “carries something with her”, Illyria since “Shells” (A 5.15) has been nowhere near as evil as Angel is. Even in “Time Bomb” (A 5.19), she assumed the Fang Gang was trying to kill her and she likely at most considered her exploding would have destroyed “More like the continental shelf, actually.” (Wesley Wyndam-Pryce ) So, she was at risk of killing hundreds of millions. Angel’s at least 3 times has tried to kill everyone on Earth (“Innocence” (B 2.14), “Becoming Parts I and II” (B 2.21-2.22) and BtVS S8).

        Moreover, this is another example of the comics shi))ing on a character to say that Angel is better in comparison. Illyria over in BtVS S9 sacrificed herself to save the world from Severin aka The Siphon. Nadira feels Fred’s being back is a threat to the magic in Magic Town.

        * Is Nadira saying that the magic in Magic Town is ‘better’ than the magic in the rest of the world?

        Nadira is likely concerned for selfish reasons about the New Seed magic’s “pressing in” on the Magic Town magic “from the outside, chipping away at its edges”. If Nadira’s powers are only because of the Magic Town magic, she perhaps wants to keep Magic Town as is.

        * Inspector Brandt seems to trying to make Faith be buddies with Angel again and seems to be trying to get with her.

        * Cursed Angel didn’t call Faith and tell her Nadira is alive much less what Nadira is now.

        * Faith feels bad for not looking over Nadira while Nadira was in the hospital. Faith doesn’t seem to much think about what resulted in Nadira’s being in the hospital (you know, Cursed Angel’s actions in BtVS S8).

        * Faith hugs Cursed Angel, something I don’t remember her ever doing in the TV Buffyverse. There aren’t any long-term consequences for Angel that the Slayers no longer are okay with Faith. Nadira is fine with Faith. Faith is happy to be around Angel and happily hugs him.

        For comparison, even in BtVS S8, Buffy still didn’t fully trust Faith and still had resentments toward Faith regarding what Faith did in BtVS S3 and BtVS S4. And Faith had ‘voluntarily’ turned herself in to the police (“Sanctuary” (A 1.19)) and was in prison for 3 years and only broke out to help save Cursed Angel and then went to Sunnydale to help Buffy save the world and then was still doing good in BtVS S8. Dawn Summers perhaps still hasn’t ‘gotten past’ Spike’s attempting to rape Buffy. She’s likely the reason that Spike in BtVS 8.40 still wasn’t invited into the Xander and Dawn apartment. Spike had gotten his soul back, was pivotal in defeating the First Evil, Spike destroyed Sunnydale and seemingly permanently closed the Hellmouth, and is the main reason why the world was saved in BtVS S8. Yet she still hadn’t forgiven him. And these things regarding Buffy toward Faith and Dawn toward Spike while maybe a little harsh are still realistic.

        Angel’s still being alive makes around zero sense. His relationships with people being as good or better than they were in AtS s5 makes around zero sense. That the comics essentially say that Willow is more evil than Angel is is disgusting and insulting to Willow. Faith apparently considered hers sleeping with Riley was wore than what Cursed Angel did in BtVS S8.


        • #5
          Oh dear… “Easy, Fred. I’ve got you. You’re safe now. I’ll make sure of it. I promise.” – well that bodes well. So they are claiming the new seed reset Fred. She was supposed to be consumed only having left traces of her character/memories but this is how they are going to handwave that away. I know most people will be pleased from the reactions I saw to last issue. I’m not just because I found her story really powerful because she was unfairly destroyed, but hey ho, we’ll see how it pans out. Oh, and the magic is young and afraid at the other new magic pressing in around magic town and of Fred’s appearance. Like that isn’t a situation waiting to blow.

          I love the cut between the aunts to Faith looking trashed, great art, I just wish they hadn’t previewed those pages. It’s a shame her face looked like it was melting often on the subsequent panels though. I‘ve noticed before Will C randomly seems to stop worrying about eyes being similar shapes/levels briefly! But then we get panels like the close ups on Fred which were just incredible. And yet his Illyria was pretty poor imo and the flashback Wes panel was disappointing because it didn’t look like Alexis at all. Overall I do like the tone of the art in this book though, my only real consistent dislike is the colouring is just fuh on the creatures/demons. They are just too basic. It virtually always feels like a too deliberate primary/secondary colour mix offered on the page. The mugging gang were a great example of what I don’t like in the colouring.

          Seeing the stressed mutant wanting his life back and Faith talking to Reese about the discord they are feeling was a good scene. Faith calling Brandt on his flattery was also good characterisation. I still don’t trust him.

          Koh’s voice feels a little off, the small amount we heard anyway. When he was listing his hits on the muggers it was just weird. I still can’t decide how much I trust Nadria either, or at least, her reading of the situations. But I quite liked the very deliberate set up scene of everyone coming together at Nadira’s place. It fits the flow/mix going on in magic town that VG keeps mentioning and feels significant that it happened where it did.

          Not much to say, it was a set up issue and did just that.


          • #6
            I won't have my copy of Angel & Faith # 11 until Friday.

            Leyki' has a review of the issue up.



            • #7
              I liked this issue. Now that Faith is back in London, maybe the story can actually pick up some pace. I'm really looking forward to next issue. Angel, Faith, Fred, Koh and Nadira all in the same room!

              The artwork was really nice. I don't think they've got Fred's nose quite right though.

              Sometimes I feel like we're not getting enough pages per month. I tend to resent it when they waste pages on superfluous stuff like the bar scene and flirting between Brandt and Faith. I'm not really digging Brandt as a character. He's like the English version of Dowling, just there to dump exposition.

              I'm really happy about Fred being back. And I'm someone who hates resurrections.

              I think with Fred back, Angel should feel obliged to contact (in order of importance) Mr. & Mrs. Burkle, Gunn, Spike, Connor and Harmony. Fred was a huge part of their lives. Gunn, Spike, Connor and Harmony would be overjoyed that Fred is back and would probably want to see her. The Burkle parents were never even told about Illyria (which is pretty horrible), as far as they knew Fred just dropped off the face of the earth. I really feel like Fred's parents deserve some kind of explanation.

              Eldre Koh is a badass. I'm guessing that he'll want to bring Illyria out of Fred in order to find out who his captor was. This will no doubt cause conflict with Angel, Faith and Nadira. Conflict makes the story interesting and that's what has been lacking in this title up until now.

              I hope next issue we get to find out more about how Fred came back. Last we saw of Illyria, her body was disintegrating with Severin in the Deeper Well.

              I hope we get to have a moment where Fred and Angel can mourn Wesley together. He meant a lot to both of them.

              MikeB, it's like every single issue you demand for Angel to be staked and act surprised that it hasn't happened. You hate Angel, we all get it. The writers aren't going to kill him. The scoobies have often let bad guys live if it suits their whims. Unlike most, Angel is actively helping people right now.


              • #8
                Finally got my copy of Angel & Faith # 11 yesterday.Part I of "United."

                This will be short.

                I liked the issue.

                Loved the Angel & Faith reunion.That hug.So great.From the beginning I said they should only keep them apart for the first year of the new season and so this was the right time to "Unite" them again.

                Also liked Faith's reaction to Nadira.

                On the whole return of Fred thing.I'm very mixed.One the one hand,I hate the idea of another dead character returning.On the other I am very interested on where this is going specially with Koh and Illyria's connection.

                I will say and I don't know if this will happen but with this Fred/Illyria development,I would really like to see Gunn and Spike and even Connor brought back into things.

                Gunn and Spike especially have such a close connection to Fred and Illyria that it doesn't feel right to me not to bring them into this for a arc at the very least.Or in Spike's case maybe this could be what brings Angel into Buffy's book for some issues.This could be a realistic reason for a crossover on that end.

                Also glad to see the aunts again and their interaction with Faith.

                Overall liked the issue.
                Last edited by BAF; 07-02-15, 06:51 PM.


                • #9
                  All caught up

                  Here’s my bullet points and analysis so I don’t repeat stuff: It’s post #4 on page 1.

                  * We still don’t know exactly what from IDW is canon and what isn’t.

                  * We don’t know exactly what is going on with Winifred Burkle.

                  Shade of Pale

                  * Winifred Burkle should go work with the Scoobies.

                  * I hope that any future interactions and regard between Spike and Angel wouldn’t be how those things were in A&F S9 (i.e. extremely insulting to Spike).

                  Vampire in Rug

                  * Your thinking something is superfluous is simply your opinion. Faith Lehane’s meeting Inspector Brandt and Brandt’s flirting with Faith isn’t superfluous stuff.

                  What is clearly superfluous is Angel’s being alive after BtVS 8.39.

                  * Conflict between Buffy and Eldre Koh (BtVS S9) was interesting because Koh is actually a threat to Buffy; in fact, he seems more powerful than Buffy. Conflict between Spike and Morgan (BtVS S9: Spike) was interesting for similar reasons.

                  Given how powerful Nadira seems to be, conflict between Eldre Kohn and the trio of Angel, Faith, and Nadira can’t be interesting because Koh isn’t a threat to Nadira. That was a main problem with Spike’s going to A&F S9 without Morgan: it was Angel and Faith against Spike.

                  * Angel should have been dusted after BtVS 8.39. That would have been best for the integrity of the Buffyverse and it seems it would have been best for the sales and readership of the Buffyverse.

                  * Given Angel is in a series called “Angel and Faith”, it’s beyond silly to say that I’ve ever “acted surprised” that Angel hasn’t been permanently dusted yet.


                  * Spike has a closer connection to Buffy than he does to Fred. Spike would want to know about Fred’s situation, but it’s unlikely he would abandon Buffy and the Scoobies to go be in A&F.


                  • #10
                    [QUOTE=MikeB;703582][i] All caught up

                    * We still don’t know exactly what from IDW is canon and what isn’t.
                    After the Fall is canon, and the Spike 8 issue series is possibly canon as well. The rest of the IDW stuff exists in a grey area where it will never be explicitly referenced, but neither will it be contradicted. Scott Allie, Christos Gage, Brian Lynch and Chris Ryall have confirmed this multiple times. If fans want to embrace the IDW stuff they are welcome to and if fans want to ignore the IDW stuff they are also welcome to. Both positions are valid.

                    * Winifred Burkle should go work with the Scoobies.
                    Fred has a greater connection with Angel than she does any of the scoobies -yes, even Spike. She was close to Spike in AtS season 5, but Fred has years more history with Angel. Fred is an AtS character, she belongs in the A&F book more than she does in the BtVS book. Spike is literally the only person there she has a strong connection with and she met Willow a grand total of once. It would make very little sense for her to leave Angel who is currently looking after her, to go hang out with a different group who she barely knows.

                    Vampire in Rug

                    * Your thinking something is superfluous is simply your opinion. Faith Lehane’s meeting Inspector Brandt and Brandt’s flirting with Faith isn’t superfluous stuff.

                    What is clearly superfluous is Angel’s being alive after BtVS 8.39.
                    Regarding "superfluous"... you should probably refrain from using words you clearly don't know the meaning of.

                    * Angel should have been dusted after BtVS 8.39. That would have been best for the integrity of the Buffyverse and it seems it would have been best for the sales and readership of the Buffyverse.
                    If Angel had been killed off permanently after season 8, the A&F book wouldn't even exist. If Dark Horse killed Angel (ergo, also killing the sister series to the main Buffyverse book), they would need the BtVS sales numbers to increase A LOT to make up for lost sales of the monthly book they just killed off. The declining sales of Buffyverse comics over the years are entirely normal for the comic book industry. You make this massive assumption that sales are declining each month because Angel is still alive, and frankly that is a load of shit. Your personal hatred of Angel is not reflective of the general fandom. If you look on ANY forum or even in the Dark Horse letter column it becomes quite apparent that your opinion is an outlier. You hate Angel more than anyone I've ever met and even *you* continue to financially support this book. Again, the declining sales of the BtVS title and the A&F title are completely normal for the comic book industry, especially in this day and age. Marvel and DC are experiencing the same thing. Buffyverse sales dropping is not some unique phenomenon that is only happening because Angel is still alive. Fans are not dropping the book en mass in outrage because of Angel still being alive. That idea is something you pulled out of your ass with nothing to actually back you up.


                    • #11
                      I’m not going to respond to straw man arguments.

                      I’m going to try to avoid responding to speculation.

                      Vampire in Rug

                      * I don’t know why is it so difficult for some to understand that Joss Whedon is the arbiter of canon of the Buffyverse. Joss has still not said exactly what is canon from IDW. Some things are possible canon.

                      Fred has a greater connection with Angel
                      The Scoobies are more likely able to help Fred and she’d probably be happier and be more useful with the Scoobies. If the IDW stuff is canon, it’s debatable whether Fred should feel greater connected to Angel than she’d feel connected to Spike.

                      * My quote: “What is clearly superfluous is Angel’s being alive after BtVS 8.39.”

                      Angel could have – and should have – been killed after BtVS 8.39. Angel was not needed in the Buffyverse after BtVS 8.39.

                      If Angel had been killed off permanently after season 8, the A&F book wouldn't even exist.
                      That would have been a good thing.

                      * I remember Joss Whedon told Dark Horse to buy the Angel comic book license and I remember Joss decided to put Faith in Angel’s comic and to call the title “Angel and Faith”. This applies:

                      You make this massive assumption that sales are declining each month because Angel is still alive, and frankly that is a load of shit.
                      Again, that’s a straw man argument. It’s Angel’s being alive and how post-BtVS 8.39 has dealt with the events of BtVS S8. It’s fact that A&F is not as popular a title as BtVS.

                      Your personal hatred of Angel is not reflective of the general fandom.
                      Look at the sales figures of A&F versus the sales figures of BtVS S9 and BtVS S10. It likely the majority of Buffyverse fandom doesn’t even consider the comics canon. The “general fandom” includes the millions of Buffyverse fans not only the people who post on Boards.

                      If you look on ANY forum or even in the Dark Horse letter column
                      Those aren’t a random sampling of Buffyverse fans.

                      it becomes quite apparent that your opinion is an outlier.
                      The economy is better now than it has been since BtVS S8 began. People have more money to buy the comics. They could get Trade PaperBacks, digital, etc. to ‘catch up’. If people liked BtVS S8, if they liked what was in Season 9, Season 10 sales should actually be even higher because more people would have read the comics.

                      A&F’s sales have always been significantly below BtVS’s sales. Simple math proves that Angel is less popular after BtVS S8 than he was before. Simple numbers prove that less people are buying Angel comics than are buying BtVS comics. Willow’s miniseries sold better than A&F. Spike’s miniseries sold around as well as A&F and there was no good in-Buffyverse reason for Spike’s leaving in BtVS S10. It seems most readers didn’t like how Spike was treated in A&F.

                      So, no, my regard for Angel isn’t an outlier.

                      You hate Angel more than anyone I've ever met and even *you* continue to financially support this book.
                      That’s what’s called ‘anecdotal evidence’. My getting the comics doesn’t cancel out the 10s of 1,000s who are no longer getting them.